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How much % increment to expect?

 
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Hi,
Appraisal is just round the corner.Can anyone give me a rough estimate of the % increments given by major companies say for avg /above avg performers?I work in Mumbai.
 
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Roughly speaking 15% if you fall in 3-7 years of experience.If more than 7-8 years of exp,little less increment.(There are other factors too like biz area in which you are working,demand of technology in which you are working etc].
 
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think of some firms in texas(i don't want to give names) where increments some times range in the less than 5% range.
 
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Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
think of some firms in texas(i don't want to give names) where increments some times range in the less than 5% range.



Dollar values more that Indian rupees. 5% is good enough.
[ January 06, 2005: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Roughly speaking 15% if you fall in 3-7 years of experience.If more than 7-8 years of exp,little less increment.(There are other factors too like biz area in which you are working,demand of technology in which you are working etc].



Good %. Not everyone is lucky.
 
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The following table shows the percentage of hike my friend received over a period of time



PS: No points for guessing my friend's name
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Originally posted by Mani Ram:
The following table shows the percentage of hike my friend received over a period of time



PS: No points for guessing my friend's name



Yeah. Which company?
 
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Over the last few years I got the following:

2000: 20%
2001: 30%
2002: 0
2003: -30% (company went down, new job with 30% less)
2004: 2%
2005: 1.5%

The time of massive raises is gone. Maybe not in India but in most of the world.
 
Pradeep bhatt
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Maybe not in India but in most of the world



I havent got anything in India.
 
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It varies largely. Though these days for your experience I believe it should be around 20%. But ten there is no standatd as such. I know one company here which has annual salary revision policy gave 20-25% during that period (April 2004) and had to give another all-over hike of about 25% in next few months to retain the employees. Market's hot here, and job switch easily offers 25-30% hike.

In my case it has varied from -30% (same as Jeroen ) to +60% in last 4-5 years.

- Manish
 
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My company gives a max of 4% raise. That's ok though, we made a ton of money on stock options.
 
Vedhas Pitkar
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Thanks for the replies,guys..But the word around is 10-20%
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Vedhas Pitkar:
Thanks for the replies,guys..But the word around is 10-20%



Like we said, maybe in India but not in general.
The percentages you mention were common during the .com boom but not before nor after.
Given that it looks like India is now in a boom which is an unhealthy situation which will likely lead to a fall soonish.
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:


Like we said, maybe in India but not in general.
The percentages you mention were common during the .com boom but not before nor after.
Given that it looks like India is now in a boom which is an unhealthy situation which will likely lead to a fall soonish.



I agree with Joroen. I am in US and in some firms they need to take executive director approval to give a raise beyond company range.
 
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Here's what I want to know... you get a 30% raise, does that mean you are providing 30% more value to the company?!?! If not, seems like the rise is either too much, or you wereunderpaid.

Inflation is a few percent a year in the US, so you should get annual raised of 2-4% generally to keep up with inflation. Not all companies have annual raises, but roughly this is the rate to keep your real income from dropping. Beyond that, it should be compensating you for your contributions to the company.

--Mark
 
Prema Chakravarthy
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Mark,
Then people in my company (in the US) get just enough raise to keep up with inflation (<= 4%). We never get raises...
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Prema Chakravarthy:
Mark,
Then people in my company (in the US) get just enough raise to keep up with inflation (<= 4%). We never get raises...



that is the reality with some companies, even in the tech sector.
 
Mark Herschberg
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Originally posted by Prema Chakravarthy:
Mark,
Then people in my company (in the US) get just enough raise to keep up with inflation (<= 4%). We never get raises...



I think you're misunderstanding my point. If you improve yourself and add more value to the company, then you should get a raise above inflation. If the amount you'll be contributing to the company next year is the same as what you contributed last year, then why should the company pay you more? (Note: this argument ignores for purposes of simplification the value in generating emloyee loyalty.)

--Mark
 
Prema Chakravarthy
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Mark,
Apparently my company does not think any of the 1200 employees are generating value.

If your point is to ask a Q whether the company should compensate for employee's effort and worth- I agree. But I think a company setting the bar at a level that barely meets the inflation is pretty distasteful.
 
Jeroen Wenting
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It's not Prema, it's in fact extremely common.

In most industries it's never been much different. To get a raise of more than inflation level you have to get promoted to a more senior position (and thus effectively a different job).

In IT it's a tad different as knowledge workers gain in value to their employer as they gain experience but if that value doesn't translate in directly higher revenue from your work (for example you're building networks for customers and your hourly rate can't go up, nor are you significantly faster doing the jobs so you can serve more projects in a given time) there's no economic reason to give you a higher salary.
 
Manish Hatwalne
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In India if you're getting raise less than 20%, you should quit!
My boother's freind got his salary more than doubled last month, a bit more than 100% raise!!!

As for Mark's question - when they decreases sal by 30%, we used to actually work even harder just to get more revenues for the company so that we can get our salaries to a decent level.

Frankly, it's next to impossible to assess your inrinsic value, most companies here judge you by extrinsic value which in a way gets translated to your current CTC, if you switch job in today's market, 30% is minimum hike that you'd get here. So to retain ppl in this job, companies do give at least 20% hike. Besides, with each passing year, you're adding years of experience as well, so a person with 3 years exp is paid more than a person with 2 years experience.

If it has to be based on performance, then probaly ppl with 2-3 years of experience should earn maximum because they are the most productive ppl. Ad may be managers should be paid the least...

- Manish
[ January 08, 2005: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]
 
Mark Herschberg
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Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
As for Mark's question - when they decreases sal by 30%, we used to actually work even harder just to get more revenues for the company so that we can get our salaries to a decent level.



Yes, that's a dysfunctional organization--they cut jobs but keep the workload the same. Personally, I'd leave. But it's a free market, and if people are willing to do more work for the same pay, then it's in the interest of the company to get them to do so.





Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Frankly, it's next to impossible to assess your inrinsic value, most companies here judge you by extrinsic value



Well technically, they *should* judge you by your extrinsic value, i.e. what you *do* provide, not what you *could* provide. But I think you mean what I do, that they can't figure out your actual contribution so they make some approximation based on somethng like SLOC, hours worked, etc. This is a big complaint I have about most companies around the world. They need to learn to measure productivity better in the engineering departments.



Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Besides, with each passing year, you're adding years of experience as well



Yes, but whether or not that experience is of value to the company isn't an invariant. The Code Wars mentioned in Peopleware note that there is little correlation between experience and programming ability.


--Mark
 
Manish Hatwalne
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Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


Well technically, they *should* judge you by your extrinsic value, i.e. what you *do* provide, not what you *could* provide. But I think you mean what I do, that they can't figure out your actual contribution so they make some approximation based on somethng like SLOC, hours worked, etc. This is a big complaint I have about most companies around the world. They need to learn to measure productivity better in the engineering departments.

--Mark



I wholeheartedly agree with you!!! But the fact is the commonly observer practice is not so. In India, I think there i s no reason why a programmer should be paid more than 25-30K/p.m., but then most often the'd put a question mark on your ability if you're earning less. I have no hassles if everybody is paid around taht figure, but if cotemporary salaries are higher and if me accepting less salary would be interpreted as assesment of my performance, then I would rather fight for more salary though I genuinely think there is no need to pamper the software professioonlas so much now. Their salary figures are going insane. There're are lots of hard-working and talanted ppl in other industries as well, and they 'e ot paid equally well. In fact even their infra-structure, facilities are pathetic. Here software industries even have tenis court, recreation facility available to employeees in the same building.

BTW, though in theory infaltion is around 8% in India (must hae come down a bit now), in reality is much different. I cant argue with my milkman when he hikes rate by 25% taht inflation is only 8%!!! Here if petorl becomes expensive by INR 1, thebread cost goes up by 75 paise to 1 INR. Transaportaion definitely doesn't cost INR 1 increase per brea for INR 1 ncrease in fuel!!! It would be naive to take inflation rate as it is to ajst the salary.

Well that remionds me, the apartment/flat which used to cost around 12-13 Lacs 8 months ago in my area now costs 17-19 lac, and there is only a little hike in sand prices and some significant hike in steel prices, but none costs 50% raise!!! Actually steel prices should have hiked automobile prices as well, but they haven't one up because that market is saturated, so they won't hike prices. Real estate market was down till 2003, and prices were rock-bottom, now since mid-2004 tehy are making merrry! Laughing their way to banks!!!

Lot of prices, including salaries often are dictated by market rates and not by the logic/theroy that we can put across!!! What they should be in way is different topic of discussion. Guess it's more like "what it is" against Ayn Rand's "what it ought to be"!!!

- Manish

BTW, is this peopleware available in India? I desperately need thsi book along with Martin Flower's book.
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
In India if you're getting raise less than 20%, you should quit!
My boother's freind got his salary more than doubled last month, a bit more than 100% raise!!!

As for Mark's question - when they decreases sal by 30%, we used to actually work even harder just to get more revenues for the company so that we can get our salaries to a decent level.

Frankly, it's next to impossible to assess your inrinsic value, most companies here judge you by extrinsic value which in a way gets translated to your current CTC, if you switch job in today's market, 30% is minimum hike that you'd get here. So to retain ppl in this job, companies do give at least 20% hike. Besides, with each passing year, you're adding years of experience as well, so a person with 3 years exp is paid more than a person with 2 years experience.

If it has to be based on performance, then probaly ppl with 2-3 years of experience should earn maximum because they are the most productive ppl. Ad may be managers should be paid the least...

- Manish

[ January 08, 2005: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]



this all reminds of the boom times during late 90's.

Everything that goesup will come a little down to meet the average situation.

It may be couple of years in case of India(and their salary increases)
 
Pradeep bhatt
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It may be couple of years in case of India(and their salary increases)

Double blow
 
Arjun Shastry
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Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:

There're are lots of hard-working and talanted ppl in other industries as well, and they 'e ot paid equally well. In fact even their infra-structure, facilities are pathetic. Here software industries even have tenis court, recreation facility available to employeees in the same building.


Yes,it happens bcos of currency conversion.Also remember that people in other industries like Jewellery,Fashion,modelling,Resturents earn MUCH MORE THAN touted IT people.You can easily guess the earnings of Restaurents like Rupali,Amrapali,Vaishali in your city just be having a look the 24x7 crowd!!Ofcourse running an hotel is quite different than coding!But what different they are offering in terms of quality/quantity?Also not every hotelier in your city earns as much as them.



Well that remionds me, the apartment/flat which used to cost around 12-13 Lacs 8 months ago in my area now costs 17-19 lac, and there is only a little hike in sand prices and some significant hike in steel prices, but none costs 50% raise!!! Actually steel prices should have hiked automobile prices as well, but they haven't one up because that market is saturated, so they won't hike prices. Real estate market was down till 2003, and prices were rock-bottom, now since mid-2004 tehy are making merrry! Laughing their way to banks!!!


Prices I think were not rockbottom but somewhat not wild but now prices have gone wild.Business Mafias are quite responsible for this.Ofcourse this can not happen without Govt. support.Also policies of focussing only certain areas leads to this.12 years back,in Mumbai prime area,Nariman Point,rate was $900 per/sq feet.!!It went down after 1997.
 
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

Given that it looks like India is now in a boom which is an unhealthy situation which will likely lead to a fall soonish.

I'm not so sure. Indian IT salaries are still a fraction of those in Western Europe and the U.S., I believe? It's possible that Indian salaries are still moving towards an equilibrium that is higher than where it is now.
 
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