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Brand new laws for H1B

 
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Hi all !

G.W Bush just signed 2 major immigration law changes :

_ extra 20,000 H1B visas for foreign MSC students graduated in US.

_ huge raise of H1B fees : 1500/750 (employer) + 500 (fraud) + 1000 (premium fee) + 185 (visa itself) + lawyer, which makes a minimal 3,185 $ for hiring an alien. Obvious aim is to make hiring of aliens dissuasively expensive. In all new H1B will become as expensive as a private lawyer GC (about 5,000 $).

_ mandatory pay for alien of 100% of wages recommanded by Labor Department, was 95% before.

_ for L1 visa extra 500 $ (fraud) plus having worked 1 year within US company, was 6 mounths before.

I believe extra taxes are foreseen for US companies which outsource too (but still with no real control), but found no mention of it. Sorry, no useable link available, only http://www.franceservice.com/ but all is in french as devoted to US immigration for frenchies, sorry again.

This could make definitely entry of qualified aliens totally impossible for honest demanding US companies, while still allowing both outsourcing and massive importation of usual abused-H1B average qualified IT slaves. The economy experts perspective of lack for about 1,5 million of qualified workers in US together with practical disappearance of whole US software IT industry within 5 years seems more and more likely (already discussed in this forum).

In case another able country takes relevant measures to catch enterpreners US doesn't any longer let in (were all through H1B so now impossible, or GC through private lawyer so awfully expensive), most by far being europeans, I frankly believe this could be the case. I still bet on UK first for it has excellent fiscal and social laws without visa issue for EEC europeans, then Germany, but not at all on developping countries as China or India which are much too desorganized or undemocratic to allow sensible development (no despise here, I am a candidate immigrant myself attempting to settle abroad, so nothing against aliens since I will become one soon too).

Best regards.
 
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi all !

but not at all on developping countries as China or India which are much too desorganized or undemocratic to allow sensible development (no despise here, I am a candidate immigrant myself attempting to settle abroad, so nothing against aliens since I will become one soon too).



Are u saying that China & India are dis-organized and undemocratic.

You have to look at some hard facts here. India is the biggest democracy in the world(with respect to population). If you want to say India is disorganized I will disagree with you on that. It has got independence from the british only about 58 years ago. Imagaine how US was about 60 years in to its independence.

UK having a advantage; comeon. With all their british egos and tv taxes etc who would want to live in UK dude.

China just surpassed US as the highest consumer of minerals and steel. China could be undemocratic, but as long as you don't put your finger in politics you are let to do what ever the technical or enterprenaureal initiatives you want to take. They are very transperent in that respect.

BTW what country you are from?
[ February 17, 2005: Message edited by: Kishore Dandu ]
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Kishore Dandu !

First no despise at all against anyone, my comments towards India and China are simply my personnal opinion, I would like to avoid drifting away from the subject : will new US laws be good or bad for US and potential immigrants. I believe very bad, but I am expecting comments on this.

Are u saying that China & India are dis-organized and undemocratic.

Yes, IMHO China is undemocratic and India is dis-organized, no despise here but my personnal opinion.

You have to look at some hard facts here. India is the biggest democracy in the world(with respect to population). If you want to say India is disorganized I will disagree with you on that. It has got independence from the british only about 58 years ago. Imagaine how US was about 60 years in to its independence.

Sorry, this is an opinion, not a fact, simple vote even with more than one party isn't enough to call you a democracy. Indian society is still and will still be highly divided with its casts : not far ago 5 untouchables were burnt alive for the "murder" of a sacred cow, but consecutive enquiry proved natural cow death, so they were killed for nothing and every Indian found it normal. Some very few students from "Indian Technology University" (don't know the real name) immediately go to US with a GC and some about 150,000$ wages a year after school while huge counterpart crowds of H1B IT slaves go to US for about 40,000$ only, making household buy explode then forcing many other to emigrate at low price so as to get more money with local cost of live exploding. Of course all countries have their pros and cons (I want to leave mine) and everywhere higest richness may be aside deepest poverty.
Of course I was speaking of honest balanced potential to make inhabitants richer by fair distribution of richness. High level of political corruption, as in many other countries, practically denies it.

UK having a advantage; comeon. With all their british egos and tv taxes etc who would want to live in UK dude.

Almost all other europeans who have even more taxes than british : french, germans, italians, swedish, ... But remember, I was talking of enterpreners who have ideal conditions there for creating their companies, not of "ordinary" workers (no despise, simply no company creators).

China just surpassed US as the highest consumer of minerals and steel.

So what ??? Soviet Union was biggest weapons producer, in what single field was it good ? Producing or consuming much doesn't show anything for any country, this is no point.

China could be undemocratic, but as long as you don't put your finger in politics you are let to do what ever the technical or enterprenaureal initiatives you want to take. They are very transperent in that respect.

You are probably wrong, simply because real realiable democracy is totally mandatory for any country to become richer in a fair way through enterprenaureal initiatives, while communism simply denies all forms of democracy. As long as China is communist, it stands no chance by definition to become a democracy.
Regulary some rich people are arrested, found "guilty" with huge fines then released, simply to show who owns the real power, communist party, not the new rich. And every year thousands of people are executed for political reasons and even tenths of local political leaders for corrupcy.

BTW what country you are from?

France, and I want to emigrate away...

Best regards.
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:


France, and I want to emigrate away...



No wonder 'Bill Oreilly' hates the French policies.
 
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
usual abused-H1B average qualified IT slaves.



Where are the mods when we need them?
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi Kishore Dandu !

Are u saying that China & India are dis-organized and undemocratic.

Sorry, this is an opinion, not a fact, simple vote even with more than one party isn't enough to call you a democracy. Indian society is still and will still be highly divided with its casts : not far ago 5 untouchables were burnt alive for the "murder" of a sacred cow, but consecutive enquiry proved natural cow death, so they were killed for nothing and every Indian found it normal.
Of course I was speaking of honest balanced potential to make inhabitants richer by fair distribution of richness. High level of political corruption, as in many other countries, practically denies it.

China just surpassed US as the highest consumer of minerals and steel.

So what ??? Soviet Union was biggest weapons producer, in what single field was it good ? Producing or consuming much doesn't show anything for any country, this is no point.



What the heck dude. In the US, there were african americans treated nasty until 30 years ago. Don't base your opinion about indian caste system just by your reading of some newspaper articles. Lately indian youth have become more progressive and there are more of inter caste marriages etc. They will laugh on your face regarding the caste issue in your posting.

With respect to lower caste people not getting enough opportunities in India, that is complete bogus. There are reservations for lower caste people upto 50% during education and also job placements. Even if your dad made it to top with the reservation(and u are rich) you can claim the quota and get the college admission or public sector job. There is a saying in US: "it is the white males that has the least opportunity with respect to affirmative action". In India it is:"It is the upper caste poor people that are at the highest risk of left out".

BTW india is not even ranked in the top 5 of corrupt governments in the world. But, corruption is everywhere dude. In USA, they give college admissions to Ivy league schools for you childen to get this done from you. So, corruption works in different scales in different countries.

Tell your opinion about the consumption observation regarding china to big manufacturers of the world. They will puke on your thoughts. They are all jostling to get an edge in that market.
 
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:

The economy experts perspective of lack for about 1,5 million of qualified workers in US together with practical disappearance of whole US software IT industry within 5 years seems more and more likely (already discussed in this forum).



That is just speculation. Where is the tangible corroboration that the US IT Software Industry will cease to exist within five years?
 
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Actually recent studies are showing that out sourcing which is not specific to the IT field alone anyway is going to increase corporate profit, thereby leading to the creation of new jobs requiring more technical skills. Basically it will only put the U.S. labor force on alert or should I say a step ahead, in order to be competetive at the market place. I guess what is hapening in the IT field today happened in the manufacturing sectors in the 1960s and 1970s yet a huge population of the American labor force is still with the manufacturing sector.
 
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Originally posted by Anselm Paulinus:
Actually recent studies are showing that out sourcing which is not specific to the IT field alone anyway is going to increase corporate profit, thereby leading to the creation of new jobs requiring more technical skills. Basically it will only put the U.S. labor force on alert or should I say a step ahead, in order to be competetive at the market place. I guess what is hapening in the IT field today happened in the manufacturing sectors in the 1960s and 1970s yet a huge population of the American labor force is still with the manufacturing sector.



The other thing that will happen is that the new middle class in India and China will demand American products, just because they're American. This is exactly like Americans demanding German cars, French wines, English china, and Cuban cigars, even though they make many more similar products at home and in the Asian economic colonies.

I've heard that American cars, music and movies are in quite high demand in Shanghai, everyone wants a Hummer.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Jesse !

That is just speculation. Where is the tangible corroboration that the US IT Software Industry will cease to exist within five years?

That is an estimation providing situation doesn't change, so just speculation, you are right. This opinion has already been stated in this forum as possible (considering together entry level hardships for fresh students, practical impossibility to hire qualified aliens for standard companies, refusal of US employers to hire natives without full relevant corresponding experience, ease of outsourcing), so I consider it as still valuable. Of course many US political decisions could make it change, but if the current trend carries on, it could be.

Best regards.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Anselm !

Actually recent studies are showing that out sourcing which is not specific to the IT field alone anyway is going to increase corporate profit, thereby leading to the creation of new jobs requiring more technical skills. Basically it will only put the U.S. labor force on alert or should I say a step ahead, in order to be competetive at the market place. I guess what is hapening in the IT field today happened in the manufacturing sectors in the 1960s and 1970s yet a huge population of the American labor force is still with the manufacturing sector.

You are totally right, but these past situations could not be true this time. It looks like US companies tried to maintain high profits after internet bubble burst, so profits went to shareholders but not to investment for future jobs. Contrary to manufactoring sector which is material software industry is very easy to delocalize and english is common language everywhere. So it is perfectly possible present situation remains unfavourable to US labor.

What is more, despite they upgrade their skills, even US natives remain unemployed by US companies for having no recent paid experience.

So all relies on whether or not profits made from outsourcing will be used so as to allow US citizens value added skills upgrade. For now, answer is no.

Best regards.
 
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That is just speculation. Where is the tangible corroboration that the US IT Software Industry will cease to exist within five years?



Yo Chicago boy. How have the electrical, electronic or steel businesses done up there by the lake in the last 40 years? IT has been a labor intensive business. It's changing some. How have labor intensive businesses like garment making done?
 
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huge raise of H1B fees



One man's huge is another man's small. US has this problem with foreign nationals and terrorism. Somebody needs to pay for the extra security. It should be paid for by the people who use the service.
 
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Eric,

Pourquoi vous voulez d�m�nager pour ailleurs?

Pho
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Pho !

Pourquoi vous voulez d�m�nager pour ailleurs ?

This is particulary kind from you writing in my native language, I appreciate much. However, by respect to other readers, and as this is an english language forum, I will answer in english for everyone to understand.

Question is "why do you want to move elsewhere ?"

For many reasons, all personnal :
_ My native country (France) would be very bad place for creating the software business I am thinking about (source code provided).
_ I had a difficult career start because for long I went to evening training after work so as to become an Engineer, so I am still at low salary despite almost 15 IT years. In my case beginning a new career abroad is no issue, almost nothing to loose.
_ France is very special, at 45 years old it will be almost impossible to be hired, at 50 it will be (immediate pre-retreat) despite official retreat is at 65, totally silly as we lack valuable job force (almost 1 million jobs available, but no one with suitable skills to fullfil them), but right now it is such.
_ Again France is very special, I cannot any longer cope with it now. I perfectly understand people don't want to move (my own CTO, worldwide persistence (JDO) expert worth about 150,000/200,000 $, involved in newest SDO/EJB-3 board, won't ever do for example), but despite any country has its pro and cons I am fed up with some french particularities.

These are the main reasons why I want to emigrate to US, permanently in my own case.

Best regards.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Kishore !

What the heck dude. In the US, there were african americans treated nasty until 30 years ago. Don't base your opinion about indian caste system just by your reading of some newspaper articles. Lately indian youth have become more progressive and there are more of inter caste marriages etc. They will laugh on your face regarding the caste issue in your posting...

But cast system still exists and is still widespread, as confirm all the other Indians I met (I have one of them as colleague), so it is still an issue to consider for me, and it is likely to last very long. The US african americans example you gave illustrates it as well. Considerable progress has been made, with for example Condi & Powell at very high levels, among head of the state, but when I went to NC in 1998 I still saw many stickers written "a black man can". It is clear this issue in general doesn't exist in US, but for a significative number of people it is still a very real issue.

BTW india is not even ranked in the top 5 of corrupt governments in the world. But, corruption is everywhere dude. In USA, they give college admissions to Ivy league schools for you childen to get this done from you. So, corruption works in different scales in different countries.

India may be ranked below top 5, but even if it is now rank 10 for example out of about 250 countries it would still be among 5 first percents of most corrupted countries in world, which is still awfully much. Please note that I blame the system, not people using it, for corruption is the major issue against development. With high corruption some key officials become rich, but neither the population nor the country, or even if it does it is totally unbalanced and makes ordinary life more difficult.

Tell your opinion about the consumption observation regarding china to big manufacturers of the world. They will puke on your thoughts. They are all jostling to get an edge in that market.

I don't consider this because it has no relevant meaning for me, Soviet Union was world's most prolific mass producer of mainly unvaluable products except weapons, but had to collapse anyway for system was totally unviable. I believe China will have to choose between communism and democracy one day, else they will remain an underdevelopped country whatever. Whealth for country/population simply cannot exist without democracy, and communism is totally uncompatible with democracy.
What is more growth rates about China although high don't mean anything, it is very easy to have an official astronomic growth when you start from so low. This was true for Ireland in europe too not long ago, and is true in the other way, countries with already high wealth level achieve poor improvement performances because as they are already high they are very hard to enhance. In internet bubble era all european countries improved much employment except Luxembourg. Because Luxembourg is a poor country badly managed ? No, they couldn't decrease unemployment rate because they had no unemployment, you cannot eliminate what doesn't exist.
So very high growth rate prove a country was weak and badly managed in some way, so reveals great issues, and doesn't prove at all it will last for past issues can reappear at any time.

Best regards.
 
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Besides corruption,transparency at administrative and political level is also required.India lacks them.People are kept completely in dark about the whereabout of funds,loan etc given to politicians/muncipal corps in their constituencies.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Arjun !

Besides corruption,transparency at administrative and political level is also required.India lacks them.People are kept completely in dark about the whereabout of funds,loan etc given to politicians/muncipal corps in their constituencies.

You are right, there is corruption is every country anyway, impossible to totally avoid it, but at very different levels. We have some in France too, of course. Simply, it should remain at a low pace und remain punished, for corruption is one of main ennemy of country/population whealth.

Best regards.
 
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First thing that Police ask in India before they register the complaint is money.100 INR is minimum.
 
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
However, by respect to other readers, and as this is an english language forum, I will answer in english for everyone to understand.



Thank you - that's very much appreciated!
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi Arjun !

Besides corruption,transparency at administrative and political level is also required.India lacks them.People are kept completely in dark about the whereabout of funds,loan etc given to politicians/muncipal corps in their constituencies.

You are right, there is corruption is every country anyway, impossible to totally avoid it, but at very different levels. We have some in France too, of course. Simply, it should remain at a low pace und remain punished, for corruption is one of main ennemy of country/population whealth.

Best regards.




Set aside corruption. I will point to one problem with French compared to Indians(that will be detrimental to your country). French are lazy. They close their shops at 6PM and prefer drinking their wine compared to doing something productive in the evening. That is not the case with Indians
 
Kishore Dandu
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Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi Kishore !

What the heck dude. In the US, there were african americans treated nasty until 30 years ago. Don't base your opinion about indian caste system just by your reading of some newspaper articles. Lately indian youth have become more progressive and there are more of inter caste marriages etc. They will laugh on your face regarding the caste issue in your posting...

But cast system still exists and is still widespread, as confirm all the other Indians I met (I have one of them as colleague), so it is still an issue to consider for me, and it is likely to last very long. The US african americans example you gave illustrates it as well. Considerable progress has been made, with for example Condi & Powell at very high levels, among head of the state, but when I went to NC in 1998 I still saw many stickers written "a black man can". It is clear this issue in general doesn't exist in US, but for a significative number of people it is still a very real issue.




You are talking about Condi and powell which happened after year 2000 right!!! We had our backward caste chief ministers(equivalent to state governors) in India in the 1970 itself.

US does not compare to India with respect to treating minorities into high positions. We have a minority president at present & the previous one is from a lower caste. We had a female PM in the 70s itself(Indira Gandhi) and this is not yet the case in US....
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Kishore !

US does not compare to India with respect to treating minorities into high positions. We have a minority president at present & the previous one is from a lower caste. We had a female PM in the 70s itself(Indira Gandhi) and this is not yet the case in US....

You are totally right, I believe your present president is even a muslim, if I remember well, which is really remarkable as India is still officially at war with its neighbour muslim state Pakistan, and should much help to settle peace, which we hope all for both India & Pakistan have nuclear weapons.
But I won't attempt playing a "my country is better than yours" foul play, both US & India have a real fair strong representation of minorities, which is good (I am neither indian nor american, so unpartial), and it is getting better. I am happy with both situations, so I won't attempt judging any better than another, both are good.

Best regards.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi Kishore !

Set aside corruption. I will point to one problem with French compared to Indians(that will be detrimental to your country). French are lazy. They close their shops at 6PM and prefer drinking their wine compared to doing something productive in the evening. That is not the case with Indians

Fine attempt, but you are wrong : it is even worse
In fact the real issue is that french are total morrons about inner politics field. The "lazyness" you are talking about is called "35 hours law", which states everyone must work 35 hours a week, no more. The expected result is that companies, whose employees would work about 12.5% less, would hire 12.5% extra staff to compensate, and as 12.5% of population is unemployed, this would fix unemployment in France in a magical way. I insist much about "magical" because as there is no chance at all this strategy works in real life as thousands years of social history show, it is more sensible to rely on magics for such policy to work than on reality.

You can guess such a stupidity was voted by socialists when they ruled, and was an economical catastrophy. And when they come back to power in 2007 (not because they are good, they are totally dumb, but because their political opponents are even dumber than them), they seriously wonder shifting to 32 hours a week because "former 35 hours a week didn't work for unemployment reduction because work time reduction was not important enough".
In our case, not only it cost to french people much money loss for nothing, it cost us 15,000 dead too : last year's very hot summer killed 15,000 people, all enquiries proved that main culprit was the "35 hours law" which together with {public hospitals' lack of employees plus summer vacations plus this law} totally disorganized public health system, making it unable to cope in such an urgent case. A former public report had warned 6 mounths before that because of these factors such predictable result had to be feared, but nothing could be done.

Of course former comment has no relationship with frensh bashing, as I am french. I could give if needed URLs of articles commenting these well known facts, but all in french.

I hope now some will stop asking me such stupid questions such "why do you want to leave France ?"...

Best regards.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi all !

By the was, as this topic's last comments have greatly drifted from original questions, I repeat the idea : do you believe new H1B laws will enhance present system or make it worse ?
I vote for second option as it doesn't settle anything serious against H1B abuses, what is your opinion ?

Best regards.
 
peter wooster
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Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
Set aside corruption. I will point to one problem with French compared to Indians(that will be detrimental to your country). French are lazy. They close their shops at 6PM and prefer drinking their wine compared to doing something productive in the evening. That is not the case with Indians



This the sort of blanket statement about two identifiable groups that is usualy associated with racism. I've known lots of French and French-Canadian people and they are no lazier than anyone else. They do however tend to appreciate the better things in life, and work hard to be able to enjoy them.

Relaxing in the evening isn't lazyness, it helps you work harder during the following day and helps prevent burnout.

Immigrants, no matter where they come from tend to be much more driven than the folk they joined or those they left behind. This has nothing to do with their racial or ethnic background. It's what encouraged them to immigrate in the first place. It's the cause, not the effect. It's one of the reasons that America leads in so many things, it was until recently a land of immigrants and their children.
 
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I think this thread has clearly wandered away from Job Discussion into poli-cultural flamage which is not appropriate for this forum. I tend to allow a wide range of discussion, because jobs are effected by economics, politics, and even culture. However, such posts need to be clearly related to the topic. I'm going to let this thread remain open and see if it gets back on track; if futur post continue to be off topic, it will be closed. Remember as well to follow our cardinal rule "be nice." Will differnces of opinion are welcome (even encouraged) culture/country bashing will not be tolerated.

--Mark
 
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I have to agree with Mark here.

There are plenty of BBs on the web where people insult each other all day long, if that's what you like.

Let's try to respect each other here at JavaRanch, even while strongly disagreeing with each others' deeply held positions about the job market.
 
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