About H1

[kundan sinha]

Hi Everybody,

I want to ask you all few queries regarding H1.My company is going to file H1 for me. They are giving me 35k+ (7.5k as bonous) per year. I think this is really very less. How much should i ask to stay there with my wife?(Round about figure in california state). Location is still not clear.

Second thing. Do US law allow H1 dependent as my wife to get a job there? She is also an IT professional but do not have adequate experience to file H1.

thanks and regards
Kundan Sinha

[Manish Hatwalne]

USD 35k/year is less according to me, if 7.k is part of this.

AFAIK, she will be flying on H4-B visa, that's dependent spouse visa an legally she can't work.

HTH,
- Manish

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

Sometime back I read that minimum $60K salary is mandatory for H1B.How come employer is giving 35K?

[Jesus Angeles]

depends on which state,

that can be okay on suburbs of houston

but thats so low for new york or california

[ab parashar]

$35k = aprox 2k a month after tax = aprox 500,700 dollars a month savings(if you are stingy) = aprox 5000 usd savings p.a = aprox INR 2+ lacs savings a year.....

Unless you are living in some other world , salaries in India pay you much more than that.

For California a good salary(in todays market) would be 70k plus relocation costs for other states 60k would be good...assuming you have less than 5 years experience.

Why does anyone need to go at such a ridiculous salary....?

Top MNCs in Bangalore are offereing dollar salaries in India(if you are really good)...upto $100k.The trend is increasng and if you are not "really" good you can still get dollar salaries lower than that number.

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi kundan !

I want to ask you all few queries regarding H1.My company is going to file H1 for me. They are giving me 35k+ (7.5k as bonous) per year. I think this is really very less. How much should i ask to stay there with my wife?(Round about figure in california state). Location is still not clear.

Whatever the area in california, 50K looks like a bare minimum to live as whole state is very expensive, but not in every area of course. Try to negotiate 50K + 7.5K as bonus (bonus relies on estimated performance so don't expect to have it at all), or if you already live well where you are (? India ?) I believe you should refuse, for there are severe hardships to expect with such low salary.

Second thing. Do US law allow H1 dependent as my wife to get a job there? She is also an IT professional but do not have adequate experience to file H1.

Only spouses/husbands of E & L visas are allowed to work in US, so there is no legal way your spouse is allowed to work.

Best regards.

[Homer Phillips]

You should be aware too that bonuses are not salary. They are a benefit. Benefits can ( and often will ) be cancelled by the employer. They will say things have changed.

[Anand Prabhu]

35K in California? Save yourself the misery. That is a pathetic salary and I think this is not in line with labour guidelines. The employer is squeezing you, plain and simple. As a dependent, your wife cannot work and if she lacks the necessary experience, it will be very tough for any employer to file a H1-B petition on her behalf. I hear that the salaries are great in India and the job market is booming. If you wish to come here, make sure that you get adequate compensation and the project is somewhat stable, else you will land up in misery and also make your family go through it.

[Jesus Angeles]

if ever breaking thru usa market is tough, and this is your once in a lifetime opportunity to do so, then maybe focus on the termination clause, so you can plan on it.....if its bearable enough, then you can deal yourself to another job once you are in usa(that is, legally terminate your contract, and move to a better job)

[kundan sinha]

Thanks Everybody for giving me the inputs.

I am presently working in noida(India) and after a talk with my company they have increased the package to 40k+7.5(Bonus) per year.
Location is most probably Irvine.

thanks and regards
Kundan

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

I think in Irvine you will require minimum 70K.47K appears too less.This(47K) was the salary for H1-B with 2 years experience 6/7 years back during dotcom time.

[Rajul King]

I think it is not a bad offer to get your foot into USA. If you are smart, you will not wait for one year for your bonus to mature. USA is a country of oppertunities. Once you are here, you can have a greater visibility and can negotiate a better salary depending on your skills.

[Sharma Ashutosh]

Please dont come here. You are gonna spoil the market and rates out here in US. California minimum salary should be 75-80K. A 1BR costs around 1600-1800 per month. Then one yr. lease and also 1.5 months rent as advance. Why u want to come here to save just $500-$800 per month. Look for Adobe, Sapient, BayPackets, STMicroelectronics-they will pay u decent package and u will save much more money than this.
On H4 ur wife is legally not allowed to work.

[Dharam Singh]

Originally posted by Monu Sharma:
Please dont come here. You are gonna spoil the market and rates out here in US.

That means those rates are inflated,Mr Monu.

On H4 ur wife is legally not allowed to work.

Why this term "legally"? It seems many H1Bs ask their wives to work illegally or what?

[Homer Phillips]

That means those rates are inflated, Mr Monu.

No it doesn't. There's are lots of people who think paying programmers is a waste of money. They would chain you to the desk and work you 16 hours a day. Are you one of them?

[Amitabh Kulkarni]

Are you going to get any salary in India ? Basic atleast ?

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Sampige !

Originally posted by Monu Sharma:
Please dont come here. You are gonna spoil the market and rates out here in US.

That means those rates are inflated,Mr Monu.

I have to say your comment is irrelevant by nature, as especially in US rates are ruled by offer/ask principle, so rates are always at relevant level so never inflated by definition.

In fact what Sir Monu Sharma meant was that there is a very high concern rising about illegal immigration in USA, which includes H1B abuses, and as this case is obviously one considering ridiculously low (and totally illegal) wages involved. So he recommanded to the other gentleman not to carry on using this rotten system which harms USA.

Just some articles :
Hight contradictory dispute about H1B worth for USA : http://beta.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?index=7&story_id=47188
Facing the crisis of illegal immigration : http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/337859p-288511c.html
And finally an extract from "Bush Looks to Businesses to Push Immigration Reform" (The Wall Street Journal, Aug. 16) (http://www.diversityinc.com/public/16638.cfm) : "Helping illegal immigrants work in the country legally is of vital importance to a wide range of industries�from restaurants to hospitals�that rely on the undocumented work force or anticipate shortages in workers in the coming years"

In extremely clear terms industry wants more H1B simply to fill jobs with so low wages that US people can't accept them. Of course slightly increasing wages so that they become acceptable for US citizens hass never been a considered option. Not only H1B flood prevents US citizens to find low qualification jobs but they tend to lower all the wages, as very cheap and numerous labour is so easily available.

The rising concern is not a joke, pre-riot protests have been happening in California and New Mexico (where urgency state has been proclaimed against illegals), and New York (when a ship with illegal Mexicans arrived), and all shows that it is the very first concert just after Iraq. It is extremely likely to bust republicans out in 2008 as even republican supporters don't support illegal immigration in huge majority, so you can expect new regulations and very severe backlash in 2007 about illegal immigrants, including H1B abuses (don't forget in US IT unemployment is twice what it is in other labour branches).

Why this term "legally"? It seems many H1Bs ask their wives to work illegally or what?

Only wives of E and L visa owners are legally allowed to work, period. But immigration labour abuses are so widespread and easy to spot that obviously USCIS doesn't do anything against them, simply consider the high number of Indians (nothing against them) wo said "I was given (or I bought) a H1B from my bodyshop and afterwards had to go to US to find job there" on the very same forum where we are. It seems clear that US gov consider very cheap illegal labour, which boosts profits as well as unemployment, as an interesting feature. I never heard about a real retailation process by USCIS despite 9 to 18 millions (no one simply knows) illegal immigrants, perfectly visible, roam the country at will. So USCIS tolerates it, at least as long as their election is not threatened.

This is why Sir Monu Sharma was saying "Please dont come here. You are gonna spoil the market and rates out here in US", in this context what he said seems very true to me.

Best regards.

[Luke Kolin]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
In extremely clear terms industry wants more H1B simply to fill jobs with so low wages that US people can't accept them. Of course slightly increasing wages so that they become acceptable for US citizens hass never been a considered option. Not only H1B flood prevents US citizens to find low qualification jobs but they tend to lower all the wages, as very cheap and numerous labour is so easily available.

I'm still waiting to hear how several thousand non-immigrant workers, a majority of which come from other First World countries are able to cause such huge economic dislocation.

The H-1B quota of 65,000 (in a 300 million person economy) got used up already, so no more H-1Bs for most people until October 2006. They ran out of Green Card numbers for indiviudals with Bachelor's degrees, so that spigot is closed. Where's the flood? If American businesses were so much in love with H-1Bs over US citizens and residents you would have found a sponsor, right?

Cheers!

Luke

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Luke !

First don't forget that labour immigration has terribly changed very quickly from 2002 onwards, it is no longer what you have known in the past.

I'm still waiting to hear how several thousand non-immigrant workers, a majority of which come from other First World countries are able to cause such huge economic dislocation.

The real share of "huge economic dislocation" I was speaking about, if you check the newspapers link I stated, is caused by illegals aliens, mainly mexicans (nothing against them, simply the majority). These illegals are somewhere between 9 & 18 millions according to different sources, and IT abuses through H1B/L1 are only a small part of it. So I don't see why you state "a majority of which come from other First World countries". If you refer to "First World countries" you must be speaking about DV lottery probably for the great bunch of the illegals come from South America.

The H-1B quota of 65,000 (in a 300 million person economy) got used up already, so no more H-1Bs for most people until October 2006. They ran out of Green Card numbers for indiviudals with Bachelor's degrees, so that spigot is closed. Where's the flood ?

Alltogether counting H1B, alien students out of an US university, abused L1/L2 (no cap, and any fake subsidiary/branch of a bodyshoper is quite enough to allow many), you have coming to US some 100,000 new aliens each year in IT field, while tenths of thousands US natives are jobless and will remain as the aliens accept much lower wages, 30% in average. So it really looks like a flood in already over-saturated IT field. And K-Street industry lobbies (also Bill Gates) carry on asking huge raise of H1B cap.

If American businesses were so much in love with H-1Bs over US citizens and residents you would have found a sponsor, right?

Please check the newspapers link I stated, for example in IT new alien wages are average 30% lower than these of US natives, this is the only root for great love of American businesses with H-1Bs over US natives.

I return you your sarcastic remark : if H1B was used to hire bright people as it is intended, I would have (in full sensible modesty) been sponsored easilly : MS/CS, 7 IT certifications (4 in Java), 15 years IT experience, all latest Java technos, accepting lowest (but still legal) wages. I greatly doubt the other sponsored could say as much (typically all those I saw had 2/3 years experience, BS, programmer cert at most), this is why I carry on passing many certs. Of course I am not the best in IT and I know better than me, but among 55,000 people I should have been logically given my chance with such assets. I cannot be because only the very cheap average level IT pros interest American businesses now, not the good ones as before. We will check later what this "always worth the cheapest" policy leads to, but many have already doubts :
_ (USA today, Mar 15, 2005) : "In a poll of 402 chief information officers, 41% think the US will not be the world's leader in technology innovation in 15 years while 38% think the US will be and 21% are not sure".
_ Current US decline in IT likely to continue for aliens profit, especially India & China, confirmed by National Intelligence Council in january report.
_ According to previsionists, China will be economical world leader near 2030.

I am totally disgusted with US, as all aliens IT pros with the desire to build something, I won't try doing it in USA simply for not being able to go there. I frankly wonder about making my own company to sell my own software, which, although very difficult, would be greatly much simpler and easier than finding a sponsor. If it works well enough I could then buy a home in US to stay as a simple resident (not permanent, not as GC), working remotely for my alien not US based company for a living, which must be totally legal AFAIK. Apart from marriage and DV lottery this looks like the only feasible legal way to join US now for any non Indian IT pro.

Best regards.

[Glen Cai]

When I first came to US as a graduate student 20 years ago,
I got $800+ per month as a teaching assistant. I was very happy...

[Prem Khan]

Here we go again Eric, the same topic once again. US outsourcing, I think that corporations are too gready for there own good and it serves them right that the US will never be the same after this. Maybee they will stop envading other countrys.

[Luke Kolin]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
First don't forget that labour immigration has terribly changed very quickly from 2002 onwards, it is no longer what you have known in the past.

Considering that people have been complaining bitterly about H-1B workers since 2001, I don't think things have changed all that much. If you believe they have, USCIS publishes a very handy almanac of immigration statistics. If things have changed so much, perhaps you can support this statement with quantitative statistics? Otherwise, we'll all consider it an unsupported anecdote. For what it's worth, my numbers are from FY03.

So I don't see why you state "a majority of which come from other First World countries". If you refer to "First World countries" you must be speaking about DV lottery probably for the great bunch of the illegals come from South America.

No, I'm speaking about "non-immigrant workers" which is a very precise term. It means all aliens who have been admitted legally in a non-immigrant classification that allows them to work. That generally means E, H, I, J, L, M, O, P, and TN.

I don't disagree for a moment that illegal immigration has had a significant effect on blue-coller, unskilled or semi-skilled labor. But last time I checked, those terms cannot be used to describe any of us here at JavaRanch. So I'll repeat the assertion I've made before: Since the majority of non-immigrant workers come from First World countries and are therefore exceedingly unlikely to submit to the abusive conditions you complain about, non-immigrant labor is by and large not abused and does not adversely affect working conditions for professionals. If you wish to contest my quantitative claim, then I'll be happy to provide (later today) my numbers and the link to the USCIS FY03 statistics. If you wish to contest the claim that First World workers are unlikely to submit to poor conditions and pay, be my guest.

you have coming to US some 100,000 new aliens each year in IT field, while tenths of thousands US natives are jobless and will remain as the aliens accept much lower wages, 30% in average. So it really looks like a flood in already over-saturated IT field.

It really does look like a flood, especially when you are coming up with numbers off of the top of your head. Do you assume that all non-immigrant workers are in IT - that certainly makes for a helpful assumption for your case, since it means that a low-paid H1B teacher would be dragging down IT salaries.

What percentage of non-immigrant workers are in IT? Finance? Science? Education? Law? If you wish to make income comparisons against all H-1B workers versus a highly-paid subset of American workers, then you're comparing apples to oranges.

Please check the newspapers link I stated, for example in IT new alien wages are average 30% lower than these of US natives, this is the only root for great love of American businesses with H-1Bs over US natives.

I did a brief scan, but one was complaining about illegal immigration (which has nothing to do with H-1Bs) and the other was a quote from FAIR and some unsupported allegations and opinions. Eric, opinions != fact. To support any claim from FAIR as being in any way factual or authoritative without corroboration is like making conclusions about Judaism from reading the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I return you your sarcastic remark : if H1B was used to hire bright people as it is intended, I would have (in full sensible modesty) been sponsored easilly

It wasn't designed to be sarcastic - it was merely raising the point that if American employers are so in love with the H-1B, your sponsorship experience might have been more positive. The fact that you were unable to find a sponsor would suggest the contrary, that there are plenty of employers out there who aren't interested in sponsoring aliens.

Maybe, just maybe, your experience indicates that employers are doing what you want them to do - not sponsoring aliens in favor of US workers. Instead you seem to assume it's because you're overqualified. Why all of these assumptions and suppositions?

Apart from marriage and DV lottery this looks like the only feasible legal way to join US now for any non Indian IT pro.

But there are tens of thousands of individuals, admitted into the US in non-immigrant statuses, who would beg to differ.

Cheers!

Luke

[Kripal Singh]

When number of h1b visa issued went up from 65000 to 195000 in year 2001 the quality of IT worker entering in US went down from good to poor ( we saw compensation level go down during that time ) . Now that the visa number is back to 65000 I guess the quality of average h1b worker will be back to normal . any thoughts?

[Kj Reddy]

Originally posted by Kripal Singh:
When number of h1b visa issued went up from 65000 to 195000 in year 2001 the quality of IT worker entering in US went down from good to poor ( we saw compensation level go down during that time ) . Now that the visa number is back to 65000 I guess the quality of average h1b worker will be back to normal . any thoughts?

I wont agree that quality of IT workers entering in US depends on H1B quota. Now and before(in 2001) I have seen people who are having poor skills and entering into US by paying money to body shoppers and consultants. May be now the number of people with poor skills entering US is less. But the ratio of skilled people and poor skilled people doesnt changed.

But I feel this posting is deviated from actual posting. Deviating a post like this may not be helpful to the person who started the discussion.
[ August 19, 2005: Message edited by: KJ Reddy ]

[Jack Wiesenthaler]

In Irvine I would say 85-90k is pretty average for someone with a few years experience. Irvine is in Orange County which is frightfully expensive to live and after taxes even 85k is not going to seem that great. Expect to spend $1500+/month on rent alone.

Being in SoCal both you and your wife will need a car since you can't get around LA any other way, expect several hundred dollars in car payments, auto insurance is SKY HIGH also especially for someone without extensive driving history etc. etc. you get the idea
[ August 22, 2005: Message edited by: Kevin Arouza ]

[Sri Rwd]

Originally posted by ab parashar:
$35k = aprox 2k a month after tax = aprox 500,700 dollars a month savings(if you are stingy) = aprox 5000 usd savings p.a = aprox INR 2+ lacs savings a year.....

Unless you are living in some other world , salaries in India pay you much more than that.

For California a good salary(in todays market) would be 70k plus relocation costs for other states 60k would be good...assuming you have less than 5 years experience.

Why does anyone need to go at such a ridiculous salary....?

Top MNCs in Bangalore are offereing dollar salaries in India(if you are really good)...upto $100k.The trend is increasng and if you are not "really" good you can still get dollar salaries lower than that number.

Can u name the companies which r giving such high salaries? And what r the qualifications required and the job profile for such salaries?

[ab parashar]

Originally posted by Sri Rwd:



Can u name the companies which r giving such high salaries? And what r the qualifications required and the job profile for such salaries?

There are opportunities out there, you need to atleast be able to find them out for yourself. I am no consultant, but your question suggests that you do not even want to use google and monsterindia, frankly you will need more effort to land these jobs :-)

http://jobsearch.monsterindia.com/getjob.asp?JobID=32247419&AVSDM=2005%2D08%2D27+03%3A24%3A03&Logo=1&q=lacs+oracle&sort=rv&cy=IN&ss=0&brd=1&vw=b

[ August 29, 2005: Message edited by: ab parashar ]
[ August 29, 2005: Message edited by: ab parashar ]