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Indians Stealing Our Jobs

 
Greenhorn
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What is your India Strategy? Lots of jobs are getting outsourced to India, and lots of Indians are coming to places such as the US to take the entry-level jobs reserved for fresh US graduates. Are you worried about your job being outsourced? What can you do to lessen the chance of loosing your job like this? :roll:
[ August 21, 2005: Message edited by: John Zorn ]
 
Greenhorn
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Indians Stealing Our Jobs?

Well we all know that they have WMD facilities situated in and around their major IT centres.
I say we go in there and bomb those areas to ground. It's worked before and it'll work again.
The threat does not end there. Don't forget China and Russia. Pakistan, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania e.t.c. e.t.c.
I say we sort them all out. If they don't cease these evil programmes they will feel our full wrath.

There is an even worse threat even here in our own lands.
You have all seen them strutting around our towns and cities as if they own the place.
Undercutting our rates and taking the food from our children's mouths.

Young people! Yes, young people!

Keeping their rates down by living with their parents and having no children of their own.

If you honestly want to still be programming in 20-30 years you know that the only solution is to wipe out any developer under 30!

But that is not all.

We need to make jobs last longer.

Get rid of these new fangled frameworks and IDEs.
Get back to the VI editor and command line compilers.

Destroy all documentation (if any). Make all code as unreadable as possible.

And don't forget monkeys using visual basic. Wipe out all the monkeys too!

Change is coming but we can resist it if we all stand together brothers and sisters.
 
Ranch Hand
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Hi John !

What is your India Strategy? Lots of jobs are getting outsourced to India, and lots of Indians are coming to places such as the US to take the entry-level jobs reserved for fresh US graduates. Are you worried about your job being outsourced? What can you do to lessen the chance of loosing your job like this? :roll:

You post calls to much discussion, we are having the very same discussions in all developped countries where raging debates are taking place about future of IT business for local professionnals, France too in my case, assuming you are from US. Here are in short the conclusions we came to applied to your questions :

_ Indians don't steal anything from anyone, outsource from US is decided by Americans CIO and single rule is cost lowering, always make cheaper at any price, even if it harms local US economy. Don't blame Indian makers who planned nothing, blame instead your local US deciders.

_ India has no strategy at all, IT has been considered as an interesting way to allow economical growth and was encouraged by government, but no one in India ever expected such huge increase due to outsourcing. It is simply a lucky opportunity which could easily turn to nightmare, as India is becoming not so cheaper as richness grows (in IT field only) so outsourcing flow is already drifting to other countries such as China or Pakistan simply because they are cheaper. If Indian government doesn't use temporary richness to build real added value, its whole outsourcing industry could collapse very quickly, for don't forget single only rule is "cheapest wins, as long as he remains cheapest". This process causes much economical harm to Indians for only IT is rich, the other economical fields don't share this richness, so Indian economy is totally unballanced especially about housing, in very short in India "IT pros are (relatively) rich, all other pros are poor". There is no strategy at all, outsourcing flood could leave India as quick as it came to it, so again don't blame anyone except "deciders", all relies on pure opportunity.

_ Fresh US graduates could easily get entry-level jobs if visa labour system was honest and applied as they were intended, but it is not any longer. Labour visas are used to "nearshore" (contrary to offshore) alien IT pros, who are imported locally at much lower wages than their US counterparts (average says 30% lower, posts on forums shows Indians at $50 / $100 a day while US are at $50 an hour, totally illegal as much lower than prevailing wages but such is situation now). In clear low start wages were the main argument for hiring freshers, but with so many experienced aliens with labour visas at much lower wages freshers don't stand any change to get hired. Please note that there is no issue if labour visas are used as intended, paying aliens same wages as natives, issue is that their bad use allows to import cheap aliens, which was not what was intended. The real issue is that Bush clearly accepts all which allows profits growth at any price, not only by accepting such abuses with legal temporary workers but even by using totally illegal workers, as the total passiveness of USCIS shows. Only a very clear warning to your representatives could do anything, the immigration laws will have to be respected or your votes will go to opposition. Explain your senator he will lose his job if you loose yours to labour visa abuse, he will be much more receptive.

_ Many people have come to IT as a profession because of profusion and high wages, which is not true any longer, and will decrease much with time as IT is becoming an extremely ordinary job, as a secretary. So it is clear that many students must change their majors, IT is too crowdy to be an interesting profession, so all students should consider getting into another job than IT but with some IT skills as anyone must be able to use a computer now.

Best regards.
 
Eric Lemaitre
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Hi all !

What is more stop saying "Indians are stealing our jobs" as if Indians were responsible, and only them, this is worldwide generalized, not only with India.

Short comment on another forum to illustrate it (I hope there is no copyright), you could find such comments on many other forums :

"NOW OUTSOURCING- ACCOUNTANTS!!! < crzyhorse70 > 08/20 20:32:50
First off.
I work for a major US oil firm. The way it worked was that they moved 5 Brazilian accountants to the US to "shadow" 5 US comptrollers for 6 mos. After they learned what they needed, these kids then left to go back to Brazil and the 5 employees where let go. These are US citizens with 20+ years with the company and now 20 year olds making 15K a year in a third world country are doing their job.
And you thought it was just IT jobs to India..........GUESS AGAIN!!!
Write your Senators and Congressman to stop this BS"

Orgiginal URL is : http://forums.paris.craigslist.org/?act=Q&ID=31742060

I consider, as he suggests, that firmly demanding acts to your Senators and Congressmen is the main solution part. In our IT field if H1B/L2 are applied as law states they don't harm US workers at all : H1B = temporary skilled when no US is available with same wages, L2 = temporary skilled in alien branch/subsidiary with alien skills to help its local growth. If law is not respected, allowing so many abuses, clearly warn your Senators and Congressmen that either abuses will be banned or they will be, for making sure law is respected without abuses is their job. Now main outsource is India, tomorrow Pakinstan and China, after tomorrow another country, who cares, stop blaming theses countries which decided nothing. Hit at the source of the problem, your local US CIO deciders eager to make cheapest possible at any social cost and the officials who allow them to do so.

Best regards.
 
ranger
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I am closing this thread as I forsee it getting out of hand. Kind of like a political discussion in MD.

This way we, bartenders can mull over whether we will

1) edit some content to make it more nice and allow it to continue.
2) delete the thread completely.

If you want a simple thread discussing the merits or weaknesses of outsourcing (Not specific to any country or people, but to the process itself, then try opening another thread)

Mark
 
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