Java job market in NYC?

[Unnsse Khan]

How's the market in NYC? Is it worth venturing out there?

Kindest regards,

[Sania Marsh]

There are lot of jobs in Manhattan.
Salaries usually are not very fair.

[Theodore Casser]

From what I've seen, I agree with Sania. I think there are plenty of positions, but I'm not quite certain that what they're paying is worth it financially, depending on what you're looking for as a life. Certainly the wages are decent, but the cost of living, ouch...

[Mark Herschberg]

There are lots of jobs and salaries have gotten very competitive. I recently found of job in NYC and am currently hiring (local candidates only). We're opening a SF office simply because I can't get uality talent fast enough in NYC.

--Mark

[Unnsse Khan]

They are not paying well!? Really? I figured that garbage men make $10 / hour (opposed to minimum wage, everywhere else) just because they are in NYC. Aren't the salaries supposed to be higher because of the high cost of living?

What do you mean competitive, Mark? There are tons of different levels:

1. Junior Engineer
2. Mid-Level
3. Senior
4. Architect

What skills are the ones that are in demand? What skills enable a developer to request a higher pay cut?

Out here in California it depends on the company... Northrup Grumman was offering $80 / hour to developers.

Kindest regards,

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Unnsse Khan:
They are not paying well!? Really? I figured that garbage men make $10 / hour (opposed to minimum wage, everywhere else) just because they are in NYC. Aren't the salaries supposed to be higher because of the high cost of living?

Interestingly last spring, when I was looking in both NYC and Boston, most non-finance jobs in NYC seemed to be paying the same as Boston. They are not "supposed" to be higher, but if they aren't you wind up with a lower effective income.

Originally posted by Unnsse Khan:
What do you mean competitive, Mark? There are tons of different levels:

1. Junior Engineer
2. Mid-Level
3. Senior
4. Architect

What skills are the ones that are in demand? What skills enable a developer to request a higher pay cut?

Yes, there are different levels. The skills that are in demand are raw intelligence and capability in software development--not to be, although often, confused with wide knowledge of technologies. There is no magic formula, like if you have X, Y, and Z on your resume, you can get $20k more. (There are some exceptions, for example, financial knowledge puts you in a specific industry with it's own pay scale, but even within that industry there's no one sub-domain or technology which is the golden key.) It's really just about intelligence and capability. Things like: understanding the SDLC, being self-directed, proactively anticipating problems, strong communication skills, etc.

--Mark

[Unnsse Khan]

Thanks for the great feedback, Mark!

Yeah, I always thought that XML and Web services would bring out the positions deemed with the higher paycheck.

Anyone else live in NYC and understands the market? From what I gather from Mark, is the high pay jobs are in the realm of the financial area...

Is .NET big in NYC? How about Agile development?

Lets start a discussion on what cities (payrate, skills, and vertical industries) have what type of stats...

I'll start the first one:

San Diego (where I reside):

Top Vertical Industries:

1. DOD / Government (Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, SAIC)

2. Telecom / Wireless (Qualcomm, Nokia)

3. Entertainment (Sony)

Average pay scale for developers: $45 - 80 / hour

Average set of skills: Java, JSP (Heavy demand), XML (XML Schema, XSL/XSLT), and SQL

Well, I hope people join in and add their own prospective cities on this thread just so we can figure out where the *REAL* market is for Java developers.

Kindest regards,

[Billy Tsai]

is it possible to have a social life and enjoy entertainment in NYC while having such diffcult job and high living expenses?

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
is it possible to have a social life and enjoy entertainment in NYC while having such diffcult job and high living expenses?

What is "such a difficult job?" I'm not sure what job to which you are referring. If you mean Wall St, I have plenty of friends in btoh technology and on the sell-side (which has much much longer hours) who do so.

--Mark

[Sania Marsh]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
is it possible to have a social life and enjoy entertainment in NYC while having such diffcult job and high living expenses?

Just like Mark, not sure what you mean, but I have lot of friends who are in IT field in NY, they do enjoy their lives outside of office...

The job market in NY is just very harsh.. the recruiters are trained too well to lie and just suck out as much as possible from every employee. Recruiters usually don't care if you will quit your job in 3-4 months, they are paid to bring someone aboard and that's their main goal by any means. There were too many stories when employee was promised golden mountains by recruiter and had to quit once she realized it was all lie.

It is just dirty game most of the time and you have to make sure noone takes advantage of you..

But with all that, manhattan is stuffed with open java positions and if you are carefull and patient enough you will find the job right for you and will enjoy your social life ... Ah forgot to mention... The work hours in NYC are usually shorter than any other region I worked in..
Most of the time it is 9:00 - 5:00 in NYC and 9:00 - 6:00 in NJ and CT, but again.. depends on the company.

[Unnsse Khan]

I guess no one wants to list cities that they know about along with the leading industry verticals + compensation?

[Henry Wong]

Out here in California it depends on the company... Northrup Grumman was offering $80 / hour to developers.

In New York City, this is more true... Things seems to be more standardized in California. Most companies seems to be in product developments. Over here, domain knowledge is very important. Even in the finance industry, there is domain experience distinctions. If you are good, you will generally get what you are asking for.

They are not paying well!? Really? I figured that garbage men make $10 / hour (opposed to minimum wage, everywhere else) just because they are in NYC. Aren't the salaries supposed to be higher because of the high cost of living?

Okay, I can't let this one get by... Garbage men never make minimum wage. It is literally a job that stinks -- and they get paid for it. In NYC, the starting salary is 30k+, up to 50K, and this doesn't include the tons of overtime that they get during the winter. I am pretty sure this is true elsewhere.

Henry

[Mark Herschberg]

I think Sania and I are living in different New York's.

Originally posted by Sania Marsh:

The job market in NY is just very harsh.. the recruiters are trained too well to lie and just suck out as much as possible from every employee. Recruiters usually don't care if you will quit your job in 3-4 months, they are paid to bring someone aboard and that's their main goal by any means. There were too many stories when employee was promised golden mountains by recruiter and had to quit once she realized it was all lie.

I have found this to be less true in NYC. Caveat: I'm comparing the past 18 months of NYC job hunting to the past 10 years of Boston job hunting. In Boston durng the boom there were many startup companies and if a recruiter burned a bridge at one, he's mov on to the next. In NYC, many of the job go to a relatively small number of firms--in either finance or advertisng. Sure there are plenty of hedge funds and smaller advertising firms, too, but it's far less than in tech communities like Boston or SF. The recruiters can't afford to burn bridges. You can't just call up a financial firm and be a recruiter, they have a number of hoops to jump through to work with them, so recruiter's don't want to burn their connections. These large firms also do have HR set up to track turnover and related issues and it will be traced back to the recruiter.

Originally posted by Sania Marsh:

Ah forgot to mention... The work hours in NYC are usually shorter than any other region I worked in.. Most of the time it is 9:00 - 5:00 in NYC and 9:00 - 6:00 in NJ and CT, but again.. depends on the company.

This really varies by industry. In advertising, it can be very 9-5. On Wall St with lrge firms, it's much longer hours. At hedge funds, it can vary by firm 9and even project needs). At other places, it also varies.

BTW, back in the 80's I remember news articles about NYC garbage men who made over $100,000k. They were obviously very senior, but the point is, for a job needing a HS education, you can get paid pretty well doing it.


--Mark

[Unnsse Khan]

Yeah... From everything I've heard (having friends & colleagues who live out there), that people in the East Coast tend to work 12 hour days versus the West Coast, which entails a normal work week of 40 hours, on average.

I do agree with Sania regarding the fact the NYC is very competitive and cutt throat. I heard one needs to be almost perfect to make it, out there.

What I was looking for is what skills are in demand? Is it JSP & SOAP or is it everything? When I went to NYC, it seemed like it was the entire world wrapped up into one city! I am sure there's lot of different companies, but I do see a trend in the majority of Java jobs being Java, JMS, JSP, and Web services.

Kindest regards,

[Chris Jak]

San Diego (where I reside):

Top Vertical Industries:

1. DOD / Government (Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, SAIC)

2. Telecom / Wireless (Qualcomm, Nokia)

3. Entertainment (Sony)

Average pay scale for developers: $45 - 80 / hour

How does this stack up against the cost of living in SD? If I earned say $50/hr in SD, would that be sufficient for a small family to live comfortably?

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Henry Wong:

Okay, I can't let this one get by... Garbage men never make minimum wage. It is literally a job that stinks -- and they get paid for it. In NYC, the starting salary is 30k+, up to 50K, and this doesn't include the tons of overtime that they get during the winter. I am pretty sure this is true elsewhere.

This article notes:

By the end of the contract, a sanitation worker's maximum salary will be $57,392, city officials said. Newly hired workers will make $26,000.