Article : H1B exploits Indians and hurts US citizens

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi ranchers,

While local IT companies make much noise about Bush's visit in India to demand for more H1Bs, claiming H1B is good for both India and US, I found an article which claims the total opposite, a great eploitation of Indians with almost no chance to get path to US citizenship :

More H1-B visa from America but very little legal immigration for Indians

Some excerpts : "H1B allows American companies to exploit Indians at a lower wage and deprive American citizens from decent jobs", ... "This will allow more exploitation of indian workers by American companies", ... "Exceptionally qualified Indian talents get temporary jobs in US with H1B visa but they work with little respect".

Your opinions folks, mainly indian ranchers of course but the others are welcome too ?

Best regards.

[Ramesh Choudhary]

Scan through the article below the mentioned one. "India is on the threshold of a big innovation surge : Infosys". Infosys speaks on Innovation. Joke of the century .

I remember "indian IT god" Narayana Murthy uttering some stupid lines like "India does not need Inovation".

Any way thank's eric, I started my day with an absolutely hilarious joke.
[ March 15, 2006: Message edited by: Ramesh Choudhary ]

[Ramesh Choudhary]

Regarding H-1B, I cannot make a statement as I haven't gone through the process or tried for it. Anyway H-1B holder's compare the salary with Indian levels. So for them it is not exploitation. Regarding respect, I can see a pinch of reality. I will not respect anyone who is ready to take up my job at a quarter of my pay. It's natural. Nothing can be done about it.



But the tag "Exceptionally talented" is yet an another Joke.
[ March 15, 2006: Message edited by: Ramesh Choudhary ]

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:

"Exceptionally qualified Indian talents get temporary jobs in US with H1B visa.

I don't believe.I don't think companies who hire people on H1-B have special talents than others.
{
This will allow more exploitation of indian workers by American companies
}
But from Indian(or any South Asian country) perspective this is not considered as exploitation but seen as pathway to paradise and elevated social/financial status.Whatever your salary on H1-B is,you are definitely earning/saving more than in India.

[Pradeep bhatt]

Exceptionally qualified Indian talents get temporary jobs in US with H1B visa but they work with little respect

if one is working in India for a US client does he get more respect ?

[velan vel]

Yes really BAD.....

those who are having enough intelligence
they should be provided by real compensation for their work.
there should not be any partility whether they are INDIANS or
USA citizens, Instead they don't want to provide H1B visa,It is
enough to come for cheap labour to India. Generally most of Indian peoples are cheated by US Software firms, Indian MNCs, especialy BODY SHOPPERS.

Whatever it is Indian peoples will consider only money, currency, Rupees, DDDDOOOOLLLLAAARRRSSSS $$$$$$ and Bride , BrideGroom working in USA
..............Leave all Politics behind H1B.Let Indian people to Live anywhere Let indians to do anything as per their wish.

Life is a Stage, all the peoples are just acting.
Life is like infatuation for all the above.
INFATUATION will organize u from one stage to another.
when time slot (thread) comes to you everything will be stopped.
...............................HOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

hope this will help.

BY
ONE OF RANCHER.

[Jay Ashar]

I think if you search through this forum for topics such as H1B you should be able to find all the information you need.

You will also find information in threads started by you Eric. I am not discouraging you, I give you full credits for your consistency. However, search functionality on this site should give you all the answers on this topic.
Plus, I never heard of India daily, but it could me just me.

[adithya kallu]

I primarily think that atleast 70-80% of the people(indians in IT in US) are earning decent wages may be a fraction less than their counterparts,i think you get respected for the skill levels you have irrespective of the nation of origin so from that view respect is not big concern..i agree that some people are being exploited and this is the real area of concern ..in my humble opinion its good for US in general for making the whole green card process easy for people who want to settle here and have good skills and instead of just increasing the total H1b numbers just make sure people have right skills good enough to survive here without being exploited(i think being exploited in most cases can be attributed to lack of right skills) and making easy the process of settling here which might be good for all ..

[trupti nigam]

[/QB]
in my humble opinion its good for US in general for making the whole green card process easy for people who want to settle here and have good skills and instead of just increasing the total H1b numbers just make sure people have right skills good enough to survive here without being exploited(i think being exploited in most cases can be attributed to lack of right skills) and making easy the process of settling here which might be good for all ..[/QB]

US will not do that cause they don't want the H1B people to settle here in US, US wants the social security money from these guys for 6 years and then go back home! And US will keep on incresing the H1B quota, as long as IT is HOT! US social security system is already in trouble.
[ March 16, 2006: Message edited by: trupti nigam ]

[adithya kallu]

hey its just an idea dont be overtly critical,they have their rules according to their constraints..if some one dont like their policy then no need to come here right??after all its still we who are making the decision
to come or not
Regards

[trupti nigam]

Originally posted by adithya kallu:
hey its just an idea dont be overtly critical,they have their rules according to their constraints..if some one dont like their policy then no need to come here right??after all its still we who are making the decision
to come or not
Regards

I am not being overly critical. But at the same time we have to consider the fact that when any country government makes any policy, it is to the best interest of their nation which is obvious. But when you raised the issue of Green Card processing , why do you think that US government has to consider about thousands of Indian's GC processing condition? In what way it is benificial to US? If you want the GC , follow their rules and be patient. Got my point?

[adithya kallu]

I think its an asset to US(for that matter any country)to have as many bright guys as possible..if they make it easy in immigration matters and tighten the standards for h1b employers it makes it easy for real skillful guys to come here ..they will be more encouraged to come here..iam sure the whole immigration thing now is atleast stopping a few..but obviously its not good for india to loose too many nice guys so what is now may be ok

[Arvind Kumar Patel]

Originally posted by adithya kallu:
I think its an asset to US(for that matter any country)to have as many bright guys as possible..if they make it easy in immigration matters and tighten the standards for h1b employers it makes it easy for real skillful guys to come here .

US employers seek people via H1B not because they cannot find quality candidates in America, but because they cannot find CHEAP candidates in America. The H1B process is abused as a way of getting cheap workers (software slavery). Contrary to popular belief, Indians are not sent to the USA because of their intelligence (it is not the most important factor, I don't know many Indians who are smarter than their American counterparts - maybe 0.001% are good, the rest are very average), they are sent because they will work for lower wages. It works well for American IT companies because Indians think in rupees, not dollars, and the americans think in dollars, not rupees. The figure of $30-50K is very low for a H1B- american graduates with no experience get more. The Indians think they're getting a good deal.

Most Indians are too ashamed and embarassed to admit the above, because deep inside, they know it is true - their body-shopper knows it's true too, but it is almost a taboo subject. As long as they can make enough money to send back home, they're OK with it.

In the end, it hurts young American people. A system that was designed to help America fill a supposed shortage of skills is starving their own people with fewer opportunities. There is no shortage of skills in America. How can the richest country in the world be short of skills? Most programming jobs are "CRUD" jobs, and do not require much specialist skills. There are many native American candidates who could easily fill any job, but they cannot compete with low wages like the Indians can.

Time to remove the rose tinted glasses and look at the real problem.

[Matt Brown]

Originally posted by Arvind Kumar Patel:


US employers seek people via H1B not because they cannot find quality candidates in America, but because they cannot find CHEAP candidates in America. The H1B process is abused as a way of getting cheap workers (software slavery). Contrary to popular belief, Indians are not sent to the USA because of their intelligence (it is not the most important factor, I don't know many Indians who are smarter than their American counterparts - maybe 0.001% are good, the rest are very average), they are sent because they will work for lower wages. It works well for American IT companies because Indians think in rupees, not dollars, and the americans think in dollars, not rupees. The figure of $30-50K is very low for a H1B- american graduates with no experience get more. The Indians think they're getting a good deal.

Most Indians are too ashamed and embarassed to admit the above, because deep inside, they know it is true - their body-shopper knows it's true too, but it is almost a taboo subject. As long as they can make enough money to send back home, they're OK with it.

In the end, it hurts young American people. A system that was designed to help America fill a supposed shortage of skills is starving their own people with fewer opportunities. There is no shortage of skills in America. How can the richest country in the world be short of skills? Most programming jobs are "CRUD" jobs, and do not require much specialist skills. There are many native American candidates who could easily fill any job, but they cannot compete with low wages like the Indians can.

Time to remove the rose tinted glasses and look at the real problem.

Agreed!!!

[Anand Prabhu]

Good points, Arvind. Your post is directly to the point. H1B is a good program but awfully implemented and administered. As I always used to maintain, how do you rate good in IT? For the doctors, there is the USMLE exam which filters out many aspirants. Even after passing the USMLE, the immigrant doctors go through hell before reaching somewhere. If one lets companies rate "good and eligible for H1B", that is a mountain of a loophole where a ship can sail through. Unfortunately, even today, I do not see honest discussions about this program in the Senate or Congress. Most of the representatives do not seem eager to analyse and correct this program and what I see are extreme positions(eg: Increase the visas 3 fold without relief to Green Cards and Social Security tax refund, or Stop the program altogether).

[Jason Cox]

I don't know if it really exploits Indian workers or not, that kind of assumes that every employer who uses the H1B program is looking to exploit their employees. I don't think that is true. I think some abusers are making the entire program look bad.

I also don't know about it denying Americans jobs either. Why do people complain about this? If an employer is willing to exploit foreign labor, pay them less than they deserve, and overlook qualified local talent, then they are NOT an employer I want to go work for. Even if you forced them to do right through legal means, do you think that will be a good company for you? Frankly, that complaint just doesn't make sense.

[adithya kallu]

I totally agree with rob here, also one more thing that perplexes me is most people blaming indians responsible for all the mess,if indians wont take the job some other national will take it,if an indian denies a job they will go for the next cheapest and where does this lead..no immigrants at all ..who contributes a significant part in american economy ,its just the nature of most low level coding jobs which has been over crowded (just too many people around the world can do the same job) and this can be justified by the fact that there are no underpaid immigrant docters or lawyers or any other specializations who are relatively very few in number and are short in supply, the markets always plays on Demand/Supply, Even today many highend software jobs pays excellent(doesnt matter american or not)i never saw anywhere an underpaid java architect,IMHO its just the employers who arent willing to pay too much for a thing which can be done relatively cheap( also being "GOOD" is not the issue since if they arent adequate they wont get hired in first place nobody hires something cheap at cost of business).

[adithya kallu]

I totally sympathize with young americans finding jobs where corporates are looking for cutting costs (i hope some body will look into this)but in my opinion its just low level IT jobs where they will find it difficult to get a foot into afterthat its nowhere an issue

[s penumudi]

After going through all the pots I wonder why everyone is talking about cheap labor...
When your are working on H1B you have to work on salary basis. You cannot work on Hourly basis. Based on you experiance and paltform there are certain rules laid out by Immigration department (I guess) that H1B candidate should not be paid less than certain amount else his/her VISA get rejected and you cannot even enter the country..

Comming to fresh graduates, I have seen companies here take lot of them as interms and later they hier them. I think Graduating from a college here is very good source of getting into a very good companies.

May be what is know is very little.