SQL in ORM world

[Hussein Baghdadi]

Hi.
In the world of ORM tools (Hibernate, TopLink) where most of SQL is generated, do you think developers spending more time with raw SQL?
ORM is a central part of Java EE and Java SE stacks (in the form of JPA).
Thanks.

[Joe San]

Good post. Let's see how the experts react to this.

What I feel is that there are many apps today that still harness using SQL. Only the newer ones get ORM integrated. I hope I'm not wrong with this...

[Amit Wadhwaa]

True, but you still need to know how to use SQL for many purposes, Even hibernate has queries which are quite similar to SQL ones. Plus if you are working in a app which uses a db even through one of the ORM technologies, you would end up using a lot of SQL in your own development cycle(verifying results, creating tables ) though I would guess the role of SQL would certainly less important as compared to a JDBC app.

Waiting for comments on this

[Bear Bibeault]

And not all experienced developers believe that relenquishing control to an ORM is always the correct choice.

[Charles McGuire]

... and even if you believe that relinquishing control to an ORM is the way to go (which I don't), a good knowledge of SQL is still great for a quick query to answer a question, muscling data around a development environment, or to verify what your ORM is telling you.

There are functions that an SQL engine can do far more efficiently than application code, if you let it and are willing to give up some DBMS neutrality.

Don't mean to start a religious war, though...