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Claiming to be J2EE  RSS feed

 
D Peters
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What do you think about a company that claims their product is J2EE, when it just uses a few servlets and JSP's, without even using a MVC architecture?
 
Lasse Koskela
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That depends on how the claim is presented... If their application uses only stuff from the J2EE specification (e.g. JSP and servlets but no Perl scripts), they have a right to declare their product is built on the J2EE platform -- even though they're not using *everything* provided by the platform.
 
D Peters
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I feel that this is a problem. Because the J2EE is increasingly being used as a marketing tool by software makers to claim "standardization".
If using JSP and servlets is enough to claim J2EE compliance, then almost every app out there can claim compliance, whether the developers gave a damn about standardization or not.
 
Lasse Koskela
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We can't prevent companies from claiming J2EE compliancy because they're not lying; they are compliant even if they don't use EJB, JCA, JMS, JTA, and what have you. We can't prevent the audience from getting high on the word "J2EE" either.
Why does this bother you? If the customer gets the wrong impression of a product's implementation, so what -- if it matters, they'll have their engineers figuring out whether "J2EE" is actually "servlets+jsp" or "servlets+jsp+ejb".
 
Chris Mathews
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Originally posted by D Peters:
I feel that this is a problem. Because the J2EE is increasingly being used as a marketing tool by software makers to claim "standardization".
If using JSP and servlets is enough to claim J2EE compliance, then almost every app out there can claim compliance, whether the developers gave a damn about standardization or not.

So what is the problem? Their application would (or at least should) be portable across J2EE Application Servers. In fact, it will in all likelyhood be far more portable then a Servlet/JSP + EJB version of the same application. That to me would be enough to imply that they follow the J2EE standard. It shouldn't matter that they don't use EJBs.
To be fair... in order to pass Sun's J2EE Verifier test kit the application must make use of EJBs. However, I personally feel that this is an artificial requirement. The vast majority of J2EE applications do not need EJBs and in fact should not use them.
EJBs are soooo 2002.
[ July 08, 2003: Message edited by: Chris Mathews ]
 
Edy Yu
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Using JSP/servlets means they are using J2EE.
MVC is not part of J2EE. A J2EE app does not necessarily use MVC...
 
D Peters
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The reason it bothers me because it is giving a non-standardized product the false claim that it is standardized. The J2EE label is being used liberally to describe JSP/servlet architecture - and implying standardization. If you have not seen it yet - you will.
I am not an advocate for EJB - I dont know where you got that from.
 
Lasse Koskela
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The reason it bothers me because it is giving a non-standardized product the false claim that it is standardized.

How do you define "standardized"? If the application you're building is not an application server, you really don't have a J2EE standard to follow except for the APIs that you are able to use in the managed environment.
I can't see how the J2EE "label" on a business application implies standardization beyond "runs on any J2EE server." Could you point us to a real-life example of this kind of misuse?
I am not an advocate for EJB - I dont know where you got that from.

I didn't mean to say that you were. I could say that I am an EJB advocate because I like SBs and MDBs. Sorry.
 
D Peters
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Lassie,
I define standardized by something that is created in a similar way wherever you go (or at least close to it). I would expect a standard web-application to at least include an attempt at MVC. (even if it not Struts )
What I have seen in some "j2EE compliant, standardized" web-application is code that is written seven or eight years ago, cut and pasted inside a <% %> block (including business logic!). And yet, since it is a JSP, that is J2EE compliant! Holy crap! Why are you defending sloppy code and blatantly deceptive marketing?
 
Prakash Dwivedi
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Originally posted by D Peters:
Lassie,
I would expect a standard web-application to at least include an attempt at MVC. (even if it not Struts )


okai so if a web application is built using Model1 architecture than they can't call it j2ee???. So what u want say is it all depends upon the architecture.
if(architecture == MVC){
j2ee=true;
}
else{
j2ee=false;
}
well i personally believe that using Model1 is also fine and choice of architecture depends upon the requirement.
also reusing bisiness logic which is written 7-8 years ago shows the strength of reusability(not the weakness of programming)
finally u mentioned about "sloppy code" well how can u prevent "sloppy code" in MVC or struts. A person may be using struts , EJBs and all hi -fi j2ee technologies and yet writing "sloppy code", than what?, In most of the cases clients dont even see the code, they only see the results.
 
D Peters
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I give up.
 
Stan James
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A vendor can claim to be J2EE compliant, but only Sun can say the vendor is J2EE certified. JBOSS refuses to submit to Sun certification because they say it is too expensive (and other reasons) but they actually have an implementation that meets all the J2EE specs and is very popular.
 
Edy Yu
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D Peters, you have MVC embedded too deep in your head...
Just forget it and have a beer...
 
Buba Dragon
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BEER!!!
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
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