How is java in USA

[nandhini Rajendran]

I am a 2 year experienced person with below sills .Is it easy to get a descent Job as Java Programmer in USA as H1B canditate

How is Java Field in USA now.??

Skills:

1.Sun certified Java Programmer

2.Sun cettified Web component Developer

3.Strong in Core Java , JSP , Servlets , EJB

4.2 years IT experience in Java

5.Good Knowledge of Structs , Design patterns

6.Strong in MS SQL,Oracle

7.Good in Sun solaris operating system


Please tell me about the oppurtunities in Java field with above mentioned skills

What pay will i get ?

[Jay Shin]

I am a 2 year experienced person. Is it easy to get a decent Job as Java Programmer in USA as H1B candidate

It is almost impossible to get a regular full-time salaried job from a normal US corporation if:

1. You are currently in India and require H-1B visa
2. You do not have exceptional abilities or credentials

The only possible way is getting a contract job from an Indian body shoppers and joining the horde of illegal aliens in the United States.

What pay will i get?

Typically around $50,000 per year, but be aware that most Indian body shoppers do not provide health insurance and other benefits.

So your real income will be comparable to $30,000 - $40,000 jobs in other normal US corporations.
[ August 12, 2006: Message edited by: Jay Shin ]

[Luke Kolin]

Originally posted by Jay Shin:
The only possible way is getting a contract job from an Indian body shoppers and joining the horde of illegal aliens in the United States.

Working on an H-1B for a contract agency does not in any way make you an illegal alien.

Luke

[Amit Saini]

If you're serious about a long-term career in a US-based company, consider higher education (MS/MBA) from a Top 50 university.

Amit

[Jesus Angeles]

Originally posted by Jay Shin:

The only possible way is getting a contract job from an Indian body shoppers and joining the horde of illegal aliens in the United States.

QUOTE]

What do you mean? After that, what's next?

As far as I know, being an illegal alien is being on a dead end. You can not get another valid visa like H1 if you are so. The only way out is if you get married to a citizen. It doesnt look like this whole idea is not an option at all.

[Jay Shin]

Originally posted by Luke Kolin:

Working on an H-1B for a contract agency does not in any way make you an illegal alien.

True.

Working on an H-1B for a contract agency (a.k.a. "body shopper") is legal only if the employer (i.e., your contract agency) pays the wage specified in the LCA and in the H-1B petition continuously throughout the alien's period of employement.

For example, if your employer filed the H-1B petition with the annual salary of $72,000, then the alien must be paid at least $6,000 every month regardless of:

1. whether the alien is currently working on a contract or not
2. whether the hourly rate of the contract is $20 or $50 or $150

I've never heard of any body shoppers paying fixed salary to its aliens even when on bench.

Also, you don't know how much hourly rate the body shopper can charge on the clients until the alien actually come to the United States, does the interview with the clients and proves his worthiness.

Notice that these body shoppers file the H-1B petition even before the alien actually gets his first contract. If it turns out that the client only wants to pay only $30 per hour, then would the body shopper pay the alien $72,000 as specified in the LCA??

The H-1B program originally was not designed for contracting and staffing industries.

[Jay Shin]

Originally posted by Jesus Angeles:

As far as I know, being an illegal alien is being on a dead end. You can not get another valid visa like H1 if you are so.

True.

If the aliens stay in the United States in illegal status and if they are caught, it's very difficult to get another Visa.

[Jay Shin]

After that, what's next?

To find out whether you're an illegal alien or not, ask your employer to provide a copy of the LCA (Labor Condition Application).

Compare the wage specified in the LCA with the actual salary you are receiving.

If they refuse to give you a copy of LCA (as most Indian body shoppers would), then your employer is violating H-1B laws.

Under the H-1B laws, it must be placed in the company's Public Access File.

[Aksh Shah]

Jay...

I dont understand if body shopper is not paying the wage specified in the LCA to the H1B Applicant...how come the H1B Applicant become Illegal Alien.

Isn't it the responsibility of body shopper to ensure this...and if they are not following the rules then they wont be able to do business...in that case I think they would be more worried than the H1B Applicant.

[Marvin J Edgar]

"If you're serious about a long-term career in a US-based company, consider higher education (MS/MBA) from a Top 50 university."

Doing an MS and MBA wont help you much, since you need to spend lots of money and study another 2 years to get a decent earning.

The best way of getting to US would be by applying for a H1B visa through an consultant (lots of companies sponsor visa's for some amount), get it stamped goto US and then get a job there.

Fulltime jobs are available and its not an impossibility to get one, (lots of Indians have this misconception that fulltime jobs are rare in US).
Once you get a fulltime job then your visa can be sponsored from the company your employed in currently, through a transfer from the consultant company (which sponsored you from India).

Getting a job is crucial since the time limit is 3 months from the time you land on US and get a proper job, with a pay slip. This is because after 3 months the authorities randomly pick out H1B holders and check for their current job positions. If your unlucky in not getting a job by then and are checked you might be in trouble.

Switching to a more high end field such as ERP (SAP/Oracle�.) and data warehousing or some jobs which are not much outsourced such as DBA would help.
The most important thing in US is finding an accommodation there, once you land there. If you have any relatives or friends there it would help a lot.

[Jesus Angeles]

Once you are lucky enough to have taken the first base and is working in USA, you are not any different from the rest of the work force.

You are exposed to technology change, economy shifts, and all that.

You better be aware of the USA market closely. And luckily, you will get your greencard and choose any job you want. If you want to flip burgers instead, you wont need anymore visa .

[Biren shah]

another good thread killed by jay shin and hijacked.
moderators ??? where are you ???

[Amit Saini]

Doing an MS and MBA wont help you much, since you need to spend lots of money and study another 2 years to get a decent earning.

The best way of getting to US would be by applying for a H1B visa through an consultant (lots of companies sponsor visa's for some amount), get it stamped goto US and then get a job there.

I will have to disagree with you on this one. A MS/MBA degree from a prestegious university opens up a lot of opportunities. For one, you have a chance to interview on-campus with some of the best companies in industry - Microsoft, Oracle, SAP, Symantec... you name it, everyone recruits from the good universities.

Think of it as an investment. It's a tough road - but definitely more rewarding (and more respected) than choosing the 'easy' path of getting a H1 through a body shopper (after faking your resume) for a meager salary and living hand-to-mouth most times.

The long term benefits of having a good degree are tremendous. Just my $0.02.

Besides, being a student in the USA is an experience you don't want to miss

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Biren shah:
another good thread killed by jay shin and hijacked.
moderators ??? where are you ???

We are watching. As this is nandhini's thread, it's really his call if it has been hijacked, not yours. He might be finding the discussion useful. If you feel this thread is off topic, you might want to try to refocus it. Right now it's not clear to me that nandhini, you, or anyone else is missing out because of the turns this thread has taken.

--Mark

[Vijay Chouhan]

Think of it as an investment. It's a tough road - but definitely more rewarding (and more respected) than choosing the 'easy' path of getting a H1 through a body shopper (after faking your resume) for a meager salary and living hand-to-mouth most times.

So everyone (or most of the people) working on H1 fakes his/her resume and works for a meagre salary?

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Vijay !

So everyone (or most of the people) working on H1 fakes his/her resume and works for a meagre salary?

As many Indian ranchers in particular could testimony, this has become a frequent situation in US for H1B, at least in IT field. I frankly believe it is much more sensible to warn an H1B candidate that most likely he will only find an US job through bodyshopping and will work much harder than GC/native for about 30% less in practice (kept by bodyshopping company), which has been observed by many polls so is frequent now. This scenario is crude, but it is the most sensible nowadays. All this is perfectly legal anyway, and in 5 years only 1 single company in whole US was charged for bodyshopping, a New-Jersey based bodyshopper's subsidiary which simply got a fine surely much lower than what it had gained through unfair employment.

And yes, faking resumes has become extremely common now, it is really widespread for external contractors because it is not a real issue. As list of customers requirements has become really huge, it is now seldom possible to find candidates with all the required assets, so most lie and train quick to catch up. If they succeed quickly, no issue, no one will notice, else only then will it become an issue. I have often been asked by french bodyshoppers to "adapt" my resume to customers expectation, in clear to fake it myself, because bodyshoppers HRs handle so many prospects offers they have no longer time to fake them themselves. Faking resumes for external contractors so as to match prospects requirements is really common now, asked by bodyshoppers to win deals against many other concurrent bodyshoppers who all pretend to have the required assets.

Best regards.

[Mani Venkatesan]

The Java/J2EE market in the USA is saturated. There are jobs out there (a lot of them) but there are a lot of available folks too (H1B as well as as non-H1B).

So, there is little chance for a 2yrs experience person to get a job unless the rates are ridiculously low.

In short, if you do come here, be prepared for a lot of hardship and frustration.

[Mani Venkatesan]

Originally posted by Vijay Chouhan:


So everyone (or most of the people) working on H1 fakes his/her resume and works for a meagre salary?

You do not have to fake your resume but it will be harder for you to land a job. As for salaries, in general, fresh off the boat H1Bs do get lesser money. However, within an year or so, you can jump up the value ladder provided you have the "goods".

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Mani Venkatesan:
The Java/J2EE market in the USA is saturated.

This is false. As I have looked for candidates, talked to hiring managers, recruiters, and candidates lately I universally hear of rapidly rising demand for software developers. I have personally verified it in SF, NYC, Boston, and DC--four large software markets (I haven't checked Austin yet). While maybe the demand hasn't reached places like Florida or Iowa yet, in the major markets there is beginning to be a labor shortage--at least at the level of qualified candidates, not just out of college.

--Mark

[James Ellis]

I'm not sure about the H1 status...but the demand for EXPERIENCED developers right now in the US is huge. I am a contractor and was looking last summer and this summer and I can tell you that this summer I get twice the calls I did last year for much better money.

One thing I will note is that I don't exaggerate on my resume, and I try and be honest about skills listed which are rusty. If you try and exaggerate too much a good interviewer will pick this right up and you'll likely be discredited and they may no longer consider you.

[Jignesh Patel]

Mark you are right.

I do heard there are lot many h1 b candidates available for Java. So Java jobs is no more lucrative.

But in reality there are very few able to get selected due to kind of skill the posess. So in US and Indian market there are lot of labor shortage for Java developers, architects etc.

[Mani Venkatesan]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


This is false. As I have looked for candidates, talked to hiring managers, recruiters, and candidates lately I universally hear of rapidly rising demand for software developers.

--Mark

I know quite a few people (and they are not down-and-out folks) who had to and are still spending time on the bench...and this is in the boston/nyc area. Maybe I should tell them to get in touch with you - are you hiring?

[Marvin J Edgar]

Try ERP for a change, there are lots of oppertunities in US where the companies themselves are willing to sponsor your visa for a SAP/11i job. Java might be a little tough, due to a large number of people in the field both in India as well as US.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Mani Venkatesan:

I know quite a few people (and they are not down-and-out folks) who had to and are still spending time on the bench...and this is in the boston/nyc area. Maybe I should tell them to get in touch with you - are you hiring?

I am not hiring.

Yes, there are still people on the beach, and there are also companies who can fill spots quickly. I also know a fair number of people unemployed--and there's a reason it's them and not other people. (I can't speak to people being on the beach, because that's really a factor of their firms not generating enough client contracts which could depend on a number of factors outside their individual control.)

Don't trust you anecdotal evidence (or mine for that matter). Take a look at labor statistics. You can also data track on job boards, or sample recruiters. (Note: sampling your friends leads to a sample bias.)

--Mark

[Marvin J Edgar]

I will have to disagree with you on this one. A MS/MBA degree from a prestegious university opens up a lot of opportunities. For one, you have a chance to interview on-campus with some of the best companies in industry - Microsoft, Oracle, SAP, Symantec... you name it, everyone recruits from the good universities.

It might open a lot of oppertunities but Hands on Experience is of more value than 2 years of expensive theory. Besides a good university in US will surely leave a big hole in your pocket.Also a MS student visa expires within 3 months of completeing his studies giving him little time to get a job.

Even if someone gets a meager job initially within a year he will surely pickup the tricks of the trade and within a couple of years will land up in a good software firm.

Besides, being a student in the USA is an experience you don't want to miss

If its fun your after try the dance club in the next street.

[Amit Saini]

Also a MS student visa expires within 3 months of completeing his studies giving him little time to get a job.

Incorrect. After completing your MS, the F1 visa has OPT period which lasts for a year. That should be more than enough time to find a job.

If its fun your after try the dance club in the next street.

I'd appreciate you keeping the discussion factual and not digressing to meaningless topics, which won't benefit anyone. Having been educated in both India and USA, I can compare both systems and I merely suggested that learning under the US system is a good experience. I don't know from which statement of mine you equated experience = fun in dance clubs.

I merely stated my opinion. Either agree - or disagree, and give reasons for doing so, so that others might benefit from the discussion.

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Amit !

Having been educated in both India and USA, I can compare both systems and I merely suggested that learning under the US system is a good experience.

And as you have known both systems, how good is US system compared to Indian one ? In clear, considering the data we have now in France, I suspect Indian universities to produce globaly Engineers practically as good as US ones but for much cheaper. Which can be reformulated as "have US universities become much too expensive compared to Indian ones with a much lower performance for price ratio ?". This should be even more true for China, still considering the data I have. Honestly, if articles I read about Indian and Chinese universities are correct in IT field at least, I foresee than no european student seeking education abroad will ever look for US universities but will choose either Indian or Chinese ones instead for practicaly the same educational qualities but at much cheaper price. Could you comment, and Chines ranchers along too ?

Best regards.

[Jesus Angeles]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
[QB]Could you comment, and Chines ranchers along too ?
QB]

I did Philippines and USA. There shouldnt be any difference. Teachers are teachers. The curriculum may differ but the goal is the same. Choosing carefully the university may help.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Jesus Angeles:

The curriculum may differ but the goal is the same.

That statement is an inherent non-sequitur. US colleges aren't about teaching knowledge, it is about teaching thinking and expanding horizons.

To the first point, US colleges are not about memorization, something many non-US universities emphasize. To the second point, the US college experience is as much learning outside the classroom as inside. I cannot speak to how well other schools "teach" this way as compared to the US.

--Mark

[Santosh.Sujit Mohanty]

So you people are saying that working in consultancies in USA is not good for indian h1 b holder?

[Tim Cooke]

Considering the rest of this conversation happened a decade ago, I would expect that the employment landscape in the USA has changed considerably since then. I'm not in the USA so can't comment, but just be aware that this is old advice.

[Junilu Lacar]

Life as an H1B holder can be pretty tough, especially in today's political climate in the US. Many H1B holders from India are forced to make compromises in terms of compensation and assignment choice.You have to face the fact that your residency status is temporary and as such you don't have much assurance for job stability. If you have a family, this is a sword that hangs over your head that you can't just ignore. Like I said, it's tough. Moreover, you need to find a good firm that will treat you fairly. Unfortunately, there are many consulting companies that take advantage of their H1B employees. The best thing you can do is to help yourself and make sure you have marketable skills and that you can demonstrate competence and professionalism. Never, ever misrepresent your skills and experience because while you might be able to fool some people into hiring you, failure to perform to expectations is a good way to punch your ticket back home.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Also, keep in mind the original poster only has 2 years experience. That's hardly the advanced skill the H1B program is intended for. It is what it is mis-used for.