India rulez on outsourcing market

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi all !

I am not as emphatic usually, but I must admit India simply rules outsourcing market : 7 Indians in the first 10 places according to latest Brown-Wilson outsourcing survey. In particular Satyam (2nd) Cognizant (3rd) and Infosys (5th) are at top of ladder.

Apart US ACS (1st) and Perot-Systems (4th) which still contest Indian suppremacy (for how much time ?), all other outsourcing IT companies had to yield under Indian assaults. This confirms India simply rules IT outsourcing market nowadays.

IMHO next logical step for India to simply rule IT world is to rise from its present "servant" role of software maintainer to much more profitable and strategical role of software maker. Isn't there a kind of startup factory in India to match Silicon Valley, near IIT perhaps ?

Best regards.

[Shaan Shar]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi all !

But I must admit India simply rules outsourcing market : 7 Indians in the first 10 places according to latest Brown-Wilson outsourcing survey. In particular Satyam (2nd) Cognizant (3rd) and Infosys (5th) are at top of ladder.

This confirms India simply rules IT outsourcing market nowadays.

Best regards.

Well I must say cheers for all Indian IT Companies....

[Devesh H Rao]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Hi all !
Isn't there a kind of startup factory in India to match Silicon Valley, near IIT perhaps ?

Best regards.

They are called as Incubators... most of the IIT's have projects running under the Incubator model.
IIT provides logistic support such as resources,space etc for a particular time frame in which the people working on it need to sustain the "Idea" so as to be able to move out independently.

This is still in a Nascent stage to actually predict on the workability of the model, but I guess it is how it gets done world wide


PS: The best part is it is not just related to IT, manufacturing sectors get an even representation......

[Shipra Verma]

Most of the companies you listed above are doing low end services work ( where cost and quantity matters ) .
Real talent of India has left India ( working in Silicon Valley ) or hired by multinational corporation ( microsoft, google, oracle, intel ) in India . It's hard to bring up silicaon valley in India as Indian companies can't match pay packets of rich American companies .

[Devesh H Rao]

Originally posted by Shipra Verma:
Most of the companies you listed above are doing low end services work ( where cost and quantity matters ) .
Real talent of India has left India ( working in Silicon Valley ) or hired by multinational corporation ( microsoft, google, oracle, intel ) in India . It's hard to bring up silicaon valley in India as Indian companies can't match pay packets of rich American companies .

Real Talent is the people who get churned out by the colleges, given the numbers it is not any doubt that a fair number are "Talents" ....

why should we aspire for a silicon valley in India, it is already there right.. so why should there be a replica of something which is already there. We can defn aspire for better though...

And it is not just pay packets that count always... it is also the pride involved.[though I should say, reading some of the posts off late, I am a bit skeptical about the pride thingie. It seems to have become all about "who pays me more" with the newer crowd irrespective of how good or "Bad" they are.]

[Biren shah]

Hi,
nice post, must admit,

I am also fed up with "need info regarding xxx company posts"

Anyways india rules in outsourcing thats because of cheap labour and high working people.

One main difference here is indians dont spend there earning on week-ends and work hard like "servants".
I too work for 13 hours atleast 10 days a month and 10-12 hours a day including weekends is normal.

So Do you expect i can do something innovative.
In my opinion NO.

We are all bonded labourers working hard so that we get good pay.
How many indians do participate in Open-Source???
Why?
Because nobody has time. All doing same work again and again for different companies and clients.

I think indians should come out of Out-Sourcing thing and build something innovative and then only india can survive on a long term base in this highly volatile technical market.

India's foreign Debt is around 25-40 Billion dollars.
Imagine somebody produces a software like Windows in india and become 100 billion dollar owner like bill gates and pays 30% income tax ???

anyways, one must understand that to race ahead in a fast pacing technical world innovations are necessary.

[Rajesh Patel]

Cognizant is not Indian company but US company ..

Just check out following link and check the offshore revenue for each company and decide..

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_05/b3969412.htm

[vjy chin]

Its nice to see that India is first on the outsourcing market and also many people comments here and elsewhere.

I am just sharing my thoughts here.

I understand that almost all want a change in the country and all want India to innovate and produce new products. But I have not seen anyone taking the initiative (Tha includes me also) saying that I would do it. Most companies do the outsourcing work because they find it profitable and the CEO's and big guys in the company have enough money that they dont need to think on anything else(This may not be right though).

But why do we always complain that others or the existing companies should start a new innovative projects. May be they would, may be they wont, but it is not necessary for them if they get enough money which is the main criteria.

I accept that it would be hard for everyone to start a company (need lots of time, money and resources) and as singles it would be tough for any single person to do it. But even the CEO's and the big guns after being in the company's top role need a retirement and needs to spend time with their families and its tough we expect them to do the thinking always.

The Change always starts with oneself. So may be whoever wants to see a new product may start working towards it than complaining that no one else is doing it.

Just my opinion, but I also wish someone else does it.

[Ganpi Srinivasan]

Personally, I do not think it is appropriate (right now) to call any city in India as the next Silicon Valley. The term originally referred to San Fransisco Bay Area's large number of silicon chip innovators and manufacturers - the key word being innovation. Up until now all major cities in India have been keen in capturing the market in IT Services and IT Back-Office processing. I do not see an Oracle / eBay / MS / Sun Microsystems type of company propping up with a new product in the market. More focus needs to be given to entrepreuners and innovators rather than corporations trying to replicate the success of services industry.

My $0.02 on this!

[Devesh H Rao]

What is innovation... is just making a product innovation...? or is providing a solution an innovation as well.

We keep on hearing the thing about low skill and quality and slave labour, but does anyone doing the work stop for an moment and think is it what he/she is doing actually not making any difference.

A solution provided which most of the service companies do is a highly customized product for a particuluar process flow, indian companies are not into products coz of the simple reason of them being late starters in IT and the indian companies not having the size or the resource depth to pour into something which may or may not hit the bulls eye.

Any indian company which works on the service model has found a niche which was unoccupied and has made it's own. We have the global MNC's having offshore centers but they still have not been able to match the growth rates of the indian IT firms... can we think why because the indian firms have been doing this for the last so many years and have converted it into a process which gets repeated and have got used to it... it is like almost second nature to them..

we should not at the same time ignore the tremendous growth some of the companies have shown..[along with the people who work for them] what was the turnover of some of the indian firms some years back and where is it now... we cannot compare them to Oracle or Microsoft as a product companies but if we compare them to the service arms of any MNC, they do not come out too bad.

What is bad work, work is work period. If any work which is to be done not completed as per the quality expected that is bad work. Even data entry has quality standards and they have to be adhered rite...? I had this conv a couple of years back and I cannot belive it I am doing this again but if a person is not able to do 1+1 = 2 why the !#$* would a complex equation be doable. when the client is paying good money, why would they just give a new company the core software or the core business flows to automate without the company giving them proof of their quality and performance first?

We first need to prove how good we are and where we stand before expecting anything from the person in front.

I cant speak for the industry because I have been in it only for 5 yrs and am too inexperienced as far as a wider picture is concerned but I do good work, we manage projects completely owning it from the conceptulization to implementation phase and deliver them on time and exceed quality norms and yes the systems do go live and are being used [ok fine, we mess up somthings in between as well but that is a loss and a learning curve and not something which is "ohh the world just ended scenario" ].

I do not accept the statement that companies like TCS or Infosys have grown without doing good work or projects, clients do not do business just to save costs or if they find no value in continuing with the relationship. Are indian companies the cheapest to do business with, they surely are not, there are cheaper destinations out there than india at the moment but business comes to indian companies because they have earned that. Please give credit where due.

Everyone at the end of the day always has the option of leaving a job if they are unhappy with it, I really will like to know how many of the people out here who crib about doing something which is not making them happy ready for a career switch?
[ September 12, 2006: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]

[Devesh H Rao]

How many of the people know about know about the leadership programs[someone getting into these are groomed to be future managers and probably ceos] some of the above named companies have for the people that work there?

TCS

From the link.....

At TCS we offer a basket of Leadership Development Programs. Associates are carefully assessed for leadership potential and then put through rigorous branded programs. TCS also encourages associates to attend various programs at premier B Schools across the globe

Infosys

from the link......

The Infosys Leadership System (ILS) and the Infosys Leadership Institute (ILI) address the issue of sustained growth in general and creates a formal and committed system for developing leadership capabilities in Infoscions....The education philosophy at Infosys has been to equip the participants with the know-how to find the best solution, rather than to teach �one way to do it� and also to relate to real life situations We also encourage employees to go in for further part time and distance education programs with fee reimbursement subject to eligibility criteria laid down by the policy

Wipro

from the link.....

Entry-level program , New Leaders� Program,Wipro Leaders� Program,Business Leaders� Program,Strategic Leaders� Program

I am bored with all the copy paste now... but most of the companies have such programs which actually work for both parties concerned, if people are interested to enroll and not ignorant about them in the first place. These help in self development both from an knowledge point of view and and overall personality point of view as well........


PS: I do not work at any of the above companies but I know of the programs and I have known them to exist for years now. I am trying to paint an unbaised viewpoint where something cannot be evaluated from outside. It is the critics right to criticize and not degrade.
[ September 12, 2006: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]

[Mark Herschberg]

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--Mark

[Shallen Kaistha]

Eric,

The best talent of India is working in the core groups of Microsoft,Cisco,Google,Yahoo's of the world.

To answer your question, its not too far when India will call the shots in everything you can think of in IT.(innovation etc...starting with outsourcing)...

Thanks
Shallen

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Shallen !

To answer your question, its not too far when India will call the shots in everything you can think of in IT.(innovation etc...starting with outsourcing)...

This is clearly what I implicitely presume in 2nd paragraph (and hope for specific reasons) :

"IMHO next logical step for India to simply rule IT world is to rise from its present "servant" role of software maintainer to much more profitable and strategical role of software maker. Isn't there a kind of startup factory in India to match Silicon Valley, near IIT perhaps ?"

Only issue is... when will it happen ?

Best regards.

[jay shankar]

It already started. I work in J2EE space and i know about an indigenous J2EE server built by Pramati, Hyd. Its the first server that's certified for its J2EE 1.4 compliance by Sun. The issue now is selling it in the US(that's what gets it the big bucks). It will definitely have a tough time against the likes IBM, BEA, etc., but believe me, you are going to hear more about it in the coming years.

Also, another important statistic in the context of this discussion. When i completed my masters degree from IIT Kharagpur in 1997, the attrition rate (of course to the U.S.) was 70%. Tables have already turned. The latest figure is only 30%.

Now the remaining point is, attracting the stay-at-home 70% to innovative and product development companies in India. Its definitely on the horizon. Watch out and stay tuned.........

Thanks.

[Rajesh Patel]

Hmmm ..I guess the days are not far when US citizens will be queuing for Indian work Visa..And Indian Government will think of putting a limit to that kind of Visa .Rest will be dissappointed

[Arjunkumar Shastry]

Originally posted by Eric Lemaitre:
Isn't there a kind of startup factory in India to match Silicon Valley, near IIT perhaps ?"
Only issue is... when will it happen ?
Best regards.

As people have said there are many startups.I think one can replicate the success but research,innovation in any field comes out of social need and not by competition.I believe Silicon valley must have started out of some needs and not by some goal like ruling the world and earning big money.These things will follow afterwards depending on situation.

[Shallen Kaistha]

Eric,

There is no definite time period for this to happen ?? You need to stay tuned.....

Looking at the trend oflate it does not look like too far.

Thanks

[Shipra Verma]

Good indian product companies are also taken over by MNC corporation . one recent example is i-flex purchase by oracle corporation .

web page

[Ganpi Srinivasan]

Originally posted by Shipra Verma:
Good indian product companies are also taken over by MNC corporation . one recent example is i-flex purchase by oracle corporation .

web page

Small technical clarification - iFlex was not an Indian company (it never was!). It used to be CITIL under Citicorp and iFlex under Citigroup, before Oracle bought it out.
[ September 14, 2006: Message edited by: Ganpi Srinivasan ]

[Jayesh Lalwani]

It's not important for "India" to innovvate anymore. It is more important for "Indians" to continue innovvating.

In this world of globalised economy, and companies buying out each other, saying that a certain country is a leader in IT is meaningless. Corporations can be succesful/unsuccesful. Economies of countries might thrive or might tank, but saying India is leader in IT or America is a leader in IT is meaningless.

[Ganpi Srinivasan]

Originally posted by Jayesh Lalwani:

In this world of globalised economy, and companies buying out each other, saying that a certain country is a leader in IT is meaningless. Corporations can be succesful/unsuccesful. Economies of countries might thrive or might tank, but saying India is leader in IT or America is a leader in IT is meaningless.

Couldn't have been put anymore apt Jayesh!
[ September 14, 2006: Message edited by: Ganpi Srinivasan ]