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Sahil Sharma
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Hi All,

I need a small help in decideing on the technologies that i need in my project. We are working on a project that for sure needs an application server to handle the scalability and security and performance but our clients are adamant on not using application server (Initially we were planning to use EJB's). So i just want to know how can i manage good peformance, scalability, security etc. etc...without using the application server.

Regards
~Vineet
 
Chris Beckey
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Just to get the semantics out of the way, assume that "application server" means a J2EE Compliant Application Server. Then one possibility is Tomcat/Spring/Hibernate, or any number of micro-container/web servers that do HTTP work for you. The specifics would depend on the application requirements (i.e. must be HTTP based, browser based clients, fat clients, etc ...)

Better would be to get their "real" objections to application servers on the table and address those. My guess would be that your (engineering) perspective of what an application server is and your client's perspective are quite different.
 
Sahil Sharma
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that is what we are also trying to understand. we have recently joined the project and this decision was already taken. The answer we have for now is that they don't have the infrastructure to support the application server.
 
Paul Sturrock
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So i just want to know how can i manage good peformance, scalability, security etc. etc...without using the application server

Your alternatives are really using some application server alternative, such a Spring, or write your own code to do a simmilar job as the application server.

I'd ask your clients what their objections are. They might be valid, a full-blown application server could be overkill. Or they might just have read some on some psedo-technical marketing site that application servers are no longer the way to go.

If the client has such a specific non-functional requirement they should be able to explain why it is so important. To my mind though when presented with non-functional requirements such as security, scalability etc. an application server is one of the components that jumps to the foreground.
 
Paul Sturrock
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The answer we have for now is that they don't have the infrastructure to support the application server.

By infrastructure, do they mean technical resources (i.e. perople who understand application servers)? Because to do the same sort of job as an app. server you are going to need simmilar hardware.
 
Mark Spritzler
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"The answer we have for now is that they don't have the infrastructure to support the application server."

Yeah, that quote to me says they don't have any App Server knowledge to understand that "infrastructure to support it" makes no sense with things like JBoss AS Microcontainer, and how easy things like that and Spring are to set up.

I have 10 App Servers on my laptop installed, I don't need to have a big Massive Server computer that on its spare time is solving all the world's mysteries.


Mark
 
Mark Spritzler
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Actually to be honest, if I heard that from a team I joined and they had no substantial backup, I would run as far away from them as possible.

Mark
 
Sahil Sharma
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yeah, they say that they don't have the required resources to support the application servers
 
Sahil Sharma
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how is the spring security management is it as good as EJB ? how about the performance. actually i am looking for a good articles that can provide me with the details on spring, primarily concentrating on the advantages and disadvantages of using it.
 
Mark Spritzler
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Originally posted by Sahil Sharma:
yeah, they say that they don't have the required resources to support the application servers


Because they think that they are overly complicated? I don't think JBoss AS is complicated and require spending lots of money. I think they see other vendors and the prices they charge for App Servers and are scared of the price. Instead they could use open source projects which are free.

Anyway, if they don't have resources to support the AS, then I doubt they have the resources to support such an application at all, and might be better served with some other solution.

I mean, we don't know anything about what you are building, so it might be that it might be better to create the app in PHP, or .Net, or even Ruby on Rails.

Unfortunately, the company needs a lot more education on what might be required before they can accurately say don't use an App Server.

Mark
 
M Easter
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Unfortunately, the company needs a lot more education on what might be required before they can accurately say don't use an App Server.


Agreed. I wonder if the company equates "app server" with offerings like WebSphere, or the ones from BEA and Oracle. Do they even know about JBoss or Geronimo (though the latter is very young yet).

FWIW, Bruce Tate has several books on using "simpler, lighter" Java solutions that get away from J2EE. He's a about Ruby now but that would be a tough sell, I suspect.
 
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