Manager or Developer Abroad
posted 10 years ago
Old dilema resurfaces again...
Of late, I am having feeling that I am being neglected in my regular Job and despite taking several additional resposibilities in last year or so - my raise isn't being considered seriously and it's not going to be big anayway. I have over 7.5 years experience now and working on J2EE. And though I am paid well, my pay hasn't raised much (not even by 10%) in last 19 months and that is giving me feeling of lacking growth. I am getting a bit frustrated now.
The main options that I have in front of me now are -
(1) Join another bigger company and move to managerial role or as a Team lead, with slightly better salary and more stable lifestyle. But I don't have much inclination for a managerial role & will need 6 months to move to that position.
(2) Another option is to join as a senior programer and go onsite & get paid well in USD or UK Pounds (can't believe I am considering this) so that I can save significant money when I return. But I am just skeptical how much time it might take for onsite visit. Otherwise payment may not be very good for a programmer's job. Is it possible to negotiate with "onsite" condition?
What all things should be considered before moving to either of this option? What seems to be a more sensible choice? Is management inevitable after a certain period of programming? What other options can be considered?
- Manish
Of late, I am having feeling that I am being neglected in my regular Job and despite taking several additional resposibilities in last year or so - my raise isn't being considered seriously and it's not going to be big anayway. I have over 7.5 years experience now and working on J2EE. And though I am paid well, my pay hasn't raised much (not even by 10%) in last 19 months and that is giving me feeling of lacking growth. I am getting a bit frustrated now.
The main options that I have in front of me now are -
(1) Join another bigger company and move to managerial role or as a Team lead, with slightly better salary and more stable lifestyle. But I don't have much inclination for a managerial role & will need 6 months to move to that position.
(2) Another option is to join as a senior programer and go onsite & get paid well in USD or UK Pounds (can't believe I am considering this) so that I can save significant money when I return. But I am just skeptical how much time it might take for onsite visit. Otherwise payment may not be very good for a programmer's job. Is it possible to negotiate with "onsite" condition?
What all things should be considered before moving to either of this option? What seems to be a more sensible choice? Is management inevitable after a certain period of programming? What other options can be considered?
- Manish
ravi janap
Ranch Hand
Posts: 389
posted 10 years ago
What is stopping you from taking up a managerial or a team lead role. It appears that the salary hike is a primary consideration for you at present. The improvement in career position will bring about a salary hike. One possible explanation for your situation can be that J2EE is no longer considered a much in demand or a hot technology any more. Your predicament is similar to many more Java programmers out there in the market who suddenly find that the Java/J2EE is not a sought after skill anymore and thus a slow salary growth.
Thanks
-- Ravi
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
Thanks
-- Ravi
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA
Ulf Dittmer
Rancher
Posts: 42972
73
posted 10 years ago
The two solutions you propose are so different that I'm not going to try to give an opinion on that. But two things you said stand out to me as indicating that you may have unreasonable expectations.
I'd say that a 10% raise even every other year would be quite good. Maybe the market is really hot where you're working, but you should not get used to getting that kind of raise regularly (at least not without a promotion being involved). Those times will not last.
In the course of a career, working for 6 months towards a goal is nothing. Particularly if it involves a change of role, that's hardly any time at all. If you're thinking about jumping ship rather than contemplating doing something for 6 months that you're not fully satisfied with, prepare for much disappointment in your career.
Just my 2 cents.
my pay hasn't raised much (not even by 10%) in last 19 months
I'd say that a 10% raise even every other year would be quite good. Maybe the market is really hot where you're working, but you should not get used to getting that kind of raise regularly (at least not without a promotion being involved). Those times will not last.
But I don't have much inclination for a managerial role & will need 6 months to move to that position.
In the course of a career, working for 6 months towards a goal is nothing. Particularly if it involves a change of role, that's hardly any time at all. If you're thinking about jumping ship rather than contemplating doing something for 6 months that you're not fully satisfied with, prepare for much disappointment in your career.
Just my 2 cents.
Abhijit Kumar
Ranch Hand
Posts: 225
posted 10 years ago
The 2nd option looks much better. If you are not keen on managerial roles, it's always better to companies/countries where the currency conversion rate works in favor of you. I guess, H1 B consultancies would lov eto send you to US
AK
Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Old dilema resurfaces again...
(2) Another option is to join as a senior programer and go onsite & get paid well in USD or UK Pounds (can't believe I am considering this) so that I can save significant money when I return. But I am just skeptical how much time it might take for onsite visit. Otherwise payment may not be very good for a programmer's job. Is it possible to negotiate with "onsite" condition?
- Manish
The 2nd option looks much better. If you are not keen on managerial roles, it's always better to companies/countries where the currency conversion rate works in favor of you. I guess, H1 B consultancies would lov eto send you to US
AK
posted 10 years ago
Ulf -
There seems to be some misunderstanding.
My pay hasn't increased even by 10% in last 21 months - not 19 (I was wrong earlier). Besides 15% to 20% anual raise is a norm here these days and job switch alows you 30% hike at least, I know it won't last forever, I have taken 30% decreases in 2001 as well. My role has grown significantly as my PM is unavailable in last 1 year or so. So I am singlehandedly managing entire Java part of the system with design, requirements and helping othe rprogrammers with their code. So I am lead developer cum manager of sorts already. But I feel that I am misingout on the stupendous growth that this industry has seen here in last few years. Irrespective of the actual amount, if your pay doesn't grow over a period of time despite growing in responsibilities; it does make you feel that you're losing out & a bit frustrated.
As for moving to managerial rle - as I explained - I am already managing lot of things. 6 months is the minimum period that I will need spend in a new company to actually manage/lead a project - that is what I meant. A manager here is mostly sending mails & managing excel sheets or MS project for project budgets, schedules etc. I don't have much inclination to doing *only* that because I'd like to be associted with coding in some way. Hence I said that...
I hope things are clearer now. Maybe it stems from the fact of not understanding work culture & work style here in India.
- Manish
There seems to be some misunderstanding.
My pay hasn't increased even by 10% in last 21 months - not 19 (I was wrong earlier). Besides 15% to 20% anual raise is a norm here these days and job switch alows you 30% hike at least, I know it won't last forever, I have taken 30% decreases in 2001 as well. My role has grown significantly as my PM is unavailable in last 1 year or so. So I am singlehandedly managing entire Java part of the system with design, requirements and helping othe rprogrammers with their code. So I am lead developer cum manager of sorts already. But I feel that I am misingout on the stupendous growth that this industry has seen here in last few years. Irrespective of the actual amount, if your pay doesn't grow over a period of time despite growing in responsibilities; it does make you feel that you're losing out & a bit frustrated.
As for moving to managerial rle - as I explained - I am already managing lot of things. 6 months is the minimum period that I will need spend in a new company to actually manage/lead a project - that is what I meant. A manager here is mostly sending mails & managing excel sheets or MS project for project budgets, schedules etc. I don't have much inclination to doing *only* that because I'd like to be associted with coding in some way. Hence I said that...
I hope things are clearer now. Maybe it stems from the fact of not understanding work culture & work style here in India.
- Manish
posted 10 years ago
Also - as a side note.
It won't be jumping ships as such - but a concious step in either one of these directions. This month my pay is supposed to raise, if it doesn't rise satisfactorily - I'd move to one of these careers. I did my homework and it seems for my experience, the obvious next step is being a PL or PM in next 6-12 months no matter which company I join. They don't allow ppl with 7-8 expereince to work only as a developer. You need to take up other responsibilities as well.
Let's see where it goes. What other options can I consider at this stage of my career?
It won't be jumping ships as such - but a concious step in either one of these directions. This month my pay is supposed to raise, if it doesn't rise satisfactorily - I'd move to one of these careers. I did my homework and it seems for my experience, the obvious next step is being a PL or PM in next 6-12 months no matter which company I join. They don't allow ppl with 7-8 expereince to work only as a developer. You need to take up other responsibilities as well.
Let's see where it goes. What other options can I consider at this stage of my career?
posted 10 years ago
Maybe, this should be read in connection with this post that I had posted 6-7 months ago.
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]
ravi janap
Ranch Hand
Posts: 389
posted 10 years ago
Manish
I have read all your posts and now have a much better understanding of your predicament. Your heart is in coding and technology and not in a PM or a PL role. You have not been experiencing a good salary raise in past two years. You are inherently dissatisfied with your current position so you want to move. Have you contemplated joining a big brand company in India that can send you on a onsite assignment. Have you thought of migrating to USA on a H1B? However I would like to present to you some hard realities about US market just to make a point that grass always seems greener on the other side.
1. The average salary growth in USA is 3%. You should be glad that you are getting 15-20% raise. You also have the opportunity to get a 30% raise if you get a new job.
2. Software professionals in USA often work a life time as a programmer or a developer. The software profession has become more of a blue collar job. People get frustrated working in the same position and doing the same job day in and day out. The technology obsolence is so fast that it gets impossible to keep oneself abreast with latest in technology after a while. I have seen some of the older mainframe programmers in blue chip companies who are simply scared of programming in Java or JavaScript. It it only a very small percentage of people (extremely brilliant in technology / office politics) who get a chance to become a Technical Lead followed by Architect position.
The reason for my mentioning this is that you are in a growing market that is experiencing fast growth and lot of Indian software professionals from USA are moving back to India as they are getting senior positions and fat salaries. You are in a favorable situation and you have options to decide on what you want to do in life. You also have the option of joining a MNC company in India that pays handsomely. You can also follow a technologist path (developer > technical lead > architect) in a MNC company. Working with MNC company will also mean some onsite assignments. Your repeated posts over one year period means that nothing much has changed for you during the last one year so this is the time for you to stop being introspective and rather take some action. You are the captain of your ship. You can sail it in a direction that you want as long as there are winds to favor you.
Thanks
-- Ravi
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
I have read all your posts and now have a much better understanding of your predicament. Your heart is in coding and technology and not in a PM or a PL role. You have not been experiencing a good salary raise in past two years. You are inherently dissatisfied with your current position so you want to move. Have you contemplated joining a big brand company in India that can send you on a onsite assignment. Have you thought of migrating to USA on a H1B? However I would like to present to you some hard realities about US market just to make a point that grass always seems greener on the other side.
1. The average salary growth in USA is 3%. You should be glad that you are getting 15-20% raise. You also have the opportunity to get a 30% raise if you get a new job.
2. Software professionals in USA often work a life time as a programmer or a developer. The software profession has become more of a blue collar job. People get frustrated working in the same position and doing the same job day in and day out. The technology obsolence is so fast that it gets impossible to keep oneself abreast with latest in technology after a while. I have seen some of the older mainframe programmers in blue chip companies who are simply scared of programming in Java or JavaScript. It it only a very small percentage of people (extremely brilliant in technology / office politics) who get a chance to become a Technical Lead followed by Architect position.
The reason for my mentioning this is that you are in a growing market that is experiencing fast growth and lot of Indian software professionals from USA are moving back to India as they are getting senior positions and fat salaries. You are in a favorable situation and you have options to decide on what you want to do in life. You also have the option of joining a MNC company in India that pays handsomely. You can also follow a technologist path (developer > technical lead > architect) in a MNC company. Working with MNC company will also mean some onsite assignments. Your repeated posts over one year period means that nothing much has changed for you during the last one year so this is the time for you to stop being introspective and rather take some action. You are the captain of your ship. You can sail it in a direction that you want as long as there are winds to favor you.
Thanks
-- Ravi
[ July 04, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCEA
srishal singh
Ranch Hand
Posts: 33
posted 10 years ago
It is interesting to read this discussion. I am also currently in similar situation.
Have you discussed with higher management on the pay-raise part?
I hope discussion with them will give you good understanding.
.. Since you handle critical part of project they will surely consider your expectations.
Hope this helps..
Have you discussed with higher management on the pay-raise part?
I hope discussion with them will give you good understanding.
.. Since you handle critical part of project they will surely consider your expectations.
Hope this helps..
