Another McDonald's lawsuit

[Andy Ceponis]

This one is even stupider than the woman who spilled coffe on her lap. I hope someday the companies will counter sue for defamation or something and take these moneygrubbers for all their worth.
http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/05/03/companies/wires/mcdonalds_wg/

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Whether it's stupid or not, is a personal opinion.
But clearly, I am shaken by the fact that the McDonald's spokesman has admitted that their fries contain minuscule amounts of beef products.
My first reaction is utter rage; but anger's not a good thing. So thinking more sanely, I wish for one thing to come out of this lawsuit: that they become vegetarian-friendly, not necessarily by offering any special items on their menu, but by atleast indicating any meat content on items which you will normally assume to be vegetarian, like say, fries, or garlic bread, or a salad.
This should become an industry-wide practice, just like many food items are certified Kosher, I would vote for certified Veggi foodstuff. (How you define Veggi has already been discussed elsewhere!)

[Andy Ceponis]

McDonalds has never said that their fries are vegetarian. And they do have those nutrition sheets you can pick up if you want. If you dont like it then dont eat it. But dont assume things just because you might live a dertain lifestyle that is not shared by the majority of this country(and the world for that matter).

[Ray Marsh]

When I worked at Mickey Ds, 100 years ago, the fries were made in cooked in beef fat, not vegetable oil.
If you are a vegetarian, don't eat at McDonalds.

[Annie Weaver]

My stricter vegetarian friends told me not to eat the fries at McDonalds months ago. This is not a corporate secret or an attempt to deceive, in my opinion. It is more of a flavoring added to the oil.
Also, people who know food labels realize that there are legal definitions of 100% pure for different food products. It sounds to me like the oil used is 100% vegetable oil, just this flavoring is a beef product.
Still, there are no guarantees about anything you eat in a restaurant. They still serve MSG, which is poisonous, causing blinding headaches in a small portion of people like me, with no warning whatsoever.
Food in the US is often unsafe, let alone inadequately labeled for people who wish to follow any particular diet.
Fire the FDA!!

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

McDonalds has never said that their fries are vegetarian.
Nor do they openly promote their fries as containing beef. Have you ever seen a french fries ad saying 'the beef in our fries gives it the extra moo!' or something like that?
When you say fries, you think potato, and not cow. That's exactly the reason why I expect McD to be vegetarian-sensitive; don't use beef in the fries; or if you do, advertise it.
If you dont like it then dont eat it.
Spare that advice for your kids, they'll like it

[Sean MacLean]

If you base decisions upon assumptions then you have to take responsibility for the outcome. It seems that people don't want to take responsibility for their actions these days. If the person who sued because of the hot cup of coffee had spilled it on themselves at home they'd have no one to blame but themselves, but since it came from mcdonald's they're suddenly too stupid to consider the consequences of placing a hot cup of coffee between their legs while they drive. It the Bart Simpson mentality "Not me man...I didn't do it".
Sean

[Greg Harris]

Originally posted by Sean MacLean:
If you base decisions upon assumptions then you have to take responsibility for the outcome. It seems that people don't want to take responsibility for their actions these days.

well said!!! i am sick and tired of people whining about how they are being cheated or deceived by corporations or the government. if you do not like to eat meat... DO NOT EAT AT McDONALDS!!! their hamburgers are not that good, so i cannot imagine that their SALADS are any better.
this is nothing more than another example of some sleezy lawyer looking to make a quick $100k... he knows full well that this case will never go to court. McD's knows that they can "settle" out of court for far less than they would spend on lawyer fees if it did go. so, they will give the guy money to shut-up and this will fade away. he already knows how much he wants, and he probably has a good idea of how much McD's will give... it is just a chess (or maybe checkers) game now.
i wonder how these people look themselves in the mirror every morning... i bet they don't.

[Badriprasad Bumbabol]

if you do not like to eat meat... DO NOT EAT AT McDONALDS
Its not you but McD who should be saying that. U know that the "Veggie" Meal has Fries which has beef , maybe i know it, but not everyone who goes in, does. When I order a Veggie Meal, I expect a Meal with NO MEAT. Either do it or stop calling it a Veggie Meal.
And Andy which Nutritions sheets are you talking abt anyway ?? Stop acting so naive. U have to have respect for other peoples Religious beliefs even if u have none.

[Greg Harris]

i had no idea that McD's had a veggie meal... how stupid is that? i guess they are trying to corner every aspect of the market. but like i said, thier hamburgers aren't that good anyway, so i really do not think the veggie meal is any better.
so, now we are back to this lawyer looking to make some quick money.

[Andy Ceponis]

Originally posted by Tintin Herge:
And Andy which Nutritions sheets are you talking abt anyway ?? Stop acting so naive. U have to have respect for other peoples Religious beliefs even if u have none.

Im talking about the ones you can pick up at the counter. And if they are not on the counter you can ask for one and get it. They have been around for eyars ever since this eating healthy thing came into fashion. And i do have respect for people's religion. But this has NOTHING to do with religion. Vegetarians are not limited to just one religion. In fact i am postiive that every single religion has its share of vegetarians. Its not about religion, its a lifestyle. I am not aware of any religion that forbids the eating of any meat. So enlighten me since i am so naive.
Oh and this argument that McDonalds should advertise whats in their products is wrong. Ignorance is no excuse for anything.

[Greg Harris]

there was a very stupid lawsuit here in georgia a couple years ago...
this boy died one HOT summer day at a day care. the lady in charge left him in the locked van (windows rolled up) by "mistake." of course, he died of a heat stroke. the family was grief stricken and the day care could not appologize enough.
well, about 2 years later some sleezy lawyer convinced the family to sue the FORD MOTOR COMPANY for not installing Heat Reducing Technology in their vans... can you believe that? he said that if they had the "technology" then the van would have some how equalized the temperature and the boy would have lived.
the case never went to trial, but the lawyer and the family got a very big ($2 million or more) check from Ford to settle out of court. this McD's thing is no different (except for the fact that no one has died from eating frenchfries cooked in greese... unless they choked)

[Cindy Glass]

First I have to say that I detest most of the stuff that MacDonalds sells. But that is a matter of taste (or lack of it).
However, I can not see why in the world that they should have to ADVERTISE that they use some beef in their cooking fat. They DO make the information quite easily available to anyone who is serious about avoiding anything.
If they should have to ADVERTISE about the cooking fat, then they should have to ADVERTISE about the salt content in everything. And they should have to ADVERTISE about the spices in the steak bagel. And they should have to ADVERTISE about the seaweed in the chocolate milk (yes MOST chocolate milk has seaweed in it), Etc. Etc.
Just because the beef in the cooking oil is important to one segment of the population does not make the spices or the salt less important to another segment of the people. There is no reason that they should SELECTIVELY have chosen that thing to make a big deal about.
In America we have a saying "Buyer Beware" it is YOUR responsibility to know what you are buying. As long as the seller is willing to make the information available and tell the truth when asked, then they have done their part.

[Shama Khan]

McDonald's does not list the miniscule amount of beef in their ingredients list because the law allows it not to (since it's miniscule).
I am an aware buyer and I have eaten fries after reading the list. McDonalds is a big corporation who got away with selling more fries by using a loophole in the law.
One finds out about the beef used only when one contacts their headquarters.
I see a lot of intolerance in this post. It may be unimaginable to you all but there are people who feel deeply hurt and betrayed by this revelation.
Eversince I have given birth to my daughter, I became more religious and stopped eating non-halal meat including the burgers at McDonalds. But I have taken my 4 year old for french fries at McDonalds many times and I thought I had kept her away from non-halal foods.
My hindu vegetarian friends eat very little American food but the two main places they go to is McDonalds for the fries and Pizza Hut and I can feel their frustration at having found out about the Micky D's fries.
Of course, my jewish friends are not surprised about all this. They have the luxury of looking for the kosher symbols. The rest of us are not so lucky.
Shama
[This message has been edited by Shama Khan (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Cindy Glass]

I didn't understand that they didn't list it at the stores. In that case they are not doing the part about "the seller is willing to make the information available and tell the truth when asked".
Therefore they are in the wrong.

[Andy Ceponis]

Originally posted by Shama Khan:
I see a lot of intolerance in this post. It may be unimaginable to you all but there are people who feel deeply hurt and betrayed by this revelation.

If you or anyone else feels deply hurt and betrayed by a soggy piece of potato then i think you need to re-examine your way of thinking. I can fully appreciate the fact that certain meats or foods might be against someone's religion or beliefs. But if that is the case then it is their job to find out what they are eating. I am allergic to aspirin and i dont just assume that because a painkiller doesnt say aspirin on the label that it is aspirin free. That issue is very important to me so i take the time and find out for sure. Same as anyone who has special needs. McDonalds(or any other food place) does not cater to hindu vegetarians or any other special little group, it caters to the masses. They give the masses what they want. But i have to say again ignorance is no excuse.

My hindu vegetarian friends eat very little American food but the two main places they go to is McDonalds for the fries and Pizza Hut and I can feel their frustration at having found out about the Micky D's fries.

So if they have a special religious need wouldnt it make sense for them to check these things out? Have they ever asked about it? They probably just ASSUMED it was ok to eat it. Assumptions can get people in trouble.

[Greg Harris]

McD's also puts sugar on the buns and fries to make them taste better... the next time you eat a fry or taste a bun, think about it and you will taste it.
they enlarged the diameter of their straws several years ago because they figured out that if your drink goes faster, you will buy a bigger drink. look at their straws the next time you are there... they are at least 1.5 times the size of other straws.
true, it is all about marketing and the All Mighty Dollar... but i still believe this uproar is the work of a greedy lawyer. just like the idiot that sued McD's a couple months ago because he (or she) got burned by a freaking PICKLE... the food is cooked, of course it is going to be HOT.
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Ray Marsh]

I heard that in the UK, if you lose a law-suit, you have to pay the court costs and the defendants costs, as well.
Wish they'd do that here in the US, it would curtail the frivolous law-suits and probably reduce the amount of damages rewarded.

[Sean MacLean]

First off I have to say that I think Mcdonalds cheeseburgers are terrific (in fact, even though I guess I'd be considered an amatuer chef, I think hambugers are one of the most ineresting foods in that with such simple and similar ingredients, so many places turn out completely different burgers). Anyway..., consider someone who is deathly allergic to peanuts. The law requires that the peanut content be indicated on a warning label even if there is a risk of it. However, if I were allergic in this way (fortunately I'm not) the absence of a warning label would not lead me to conclude (such that I would risk my life by assuming - see above) that the item did not contain them.
Sean

[Anonymous]

Hi,
I'm Hindu but I support this logic:
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I can fully appreciate the fact that certain meats or foods might be against someone's religion or beliefs. But if that is the case then it is their job to find out what they are eating. I am allergic to aspirin and i dont just assume that because a painkiller doesnt say aspirin on the label that it is aspirin free.
-------------------------------------------------------------

[Greg Harris]

Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
I heard that in the UK, if you lose a law-suit, you have to pay the court costs and the defendants costs, as well.

that is exactly what my favorite unbiased, open-minded radio talkshow host (Rush Limbaugh) said a few weeks ago... i fully agree with that idea! these people know they are not going to win, but they also know they will get $$$ to shut-up and go away.
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Jeff Tveita]

Maybe I'm not the smartest fella in the world, but I have to ask, what in the world was a vegetarian thinking buying food at a place that specializes in meat products? I hate seafood. I don't eat at any seafood restraunts. They often serve items other than seafood but I still won't eat there. If you don't like to eat meat or meat related products, don't go to the worlds largest chain of burger joints and then act surprised when you find out that most of the food might contain meat.

[Anonymous]

I am not saying that there should not be vegetarian restaurants, just that in America a business owner should have the right NOT to be vegetarian friendly.
Maybe I will start some religion that is forbidden to eat things that have names that contain the letter �Q�. Then I will wait a few years and sue a couple of places for not advertising that there are some ingredients that contain the letter �Q� in there somewhere. I should have been made aware I�ll say.
Unfortunately he will probably get the money because he knew what he was
doing when he ate the fries. Fast buck for an evil ba$tard. Well we can�t
stop him from coming over but with the right votes we can stop more like him
from coming over. That is the only victory I can have. You want to be
selfish, lazy and stupid I will too. Sorry but the only way I have to get justice is to punish the innocent. Sorta like this lawyer, it isn�t the right thing to do but we could do it. Just more parking for me I guess.
Do they deep-fry those Chicken McNuggets or Chicken Patties? Some McDonalds even have fried chicken; you think they fry that in different oil?

[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited May 06, 2001).]

[Angela Poynton]

Ok as a veggie I'm going to chip in here.
I'm not extremely surprised about this news but maybe a little dissappointed. Maybe that's because for me vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice I made 13 years ago, for many others it is something imposed on them by their religious beliefs, I can understand why they would be angry.
For those who ask "why on earth would a vegetarian eat at Mc Donalds anyway?". Well for my part there are a few reasons.
1. I have very few vegetarian friends, I've never believed in imposing my views/beliefs on others and so if i'm with people who want to go to Mc Donalds, I'll go with them.
2. In the UK Mc Donalds serve a Veggie Burger, which they do claim is vegetarian, there is also a Veggie meal option which includes fries. It never occured to me that fries would contain beef products, but it does worry me that they claim that a meal which includes them is Veggie.
Anyway I much prefer Burger King's fries!

[Anonymous]

I wonder how many of you Vegens eat peanut butter?
You know there are insects in there right? I hope you do not consider them veggies? As for Burger King, are you SURE that there is no meat in their fries or grease? No cross contamination?
Angela do you actually think that ANY fast food restaurant or ANY non Kosher restaurant deep fries their meat products in separate deep fryers? What about your average cross contamination? Some employee grabs a frozen patty throws it on the grill then shoves some fries in the basket? Please, instead of making general statements about how disappointed you are with what someone has done to you answer the easy obvious questions. No one ever said being a vegetarian in America was easy, why should McDonalds care if you go somewhere just because your friends do? That is YOUR decision, if they were true friends they would account for your needs.
Also are all Vegetarians the same? Do they have the same standards of what a vegetarian is? I think there are some people who are just lazy (And like the fries!) and would rather not know. Now that it is thrown in their face they now feel guilty about what they have been doing, so instead of admit to themselves and their God, they cry foul.
I like McDonalds fries, it would be a shame for them to have to change just for a small minority of people who could in all honesty go elsewhere.

[Sahir Shibley]

Originally posted by Sean MacLean:
First off I have to say that I think Mcdonalds cheeseburgers are terrific

Heheheh! That reminds of a time I had to eat at McDonalds continuously for a month and a half( breakfast, lunch and dinner). This happened more than a hundred years ago when I was a teenager. I had to spend a month in Spain. I did not really take to Spanish food and I did not have enough money to eat at the fancy restaurants. So it was either MacDonalds or Spanish food and I chose the lesser of the two evils. Much water has flown under the bridge since, but I still feel a twinge of nausea, when I watch my son dig into a hamburger.

[Angela Poynton]

I intend to continue eating at Mc Donalds, I suppose I'm one of that "lazy" people. There are many variations on vegetariamism. I personally choose not to eat red meat, only on very rare occasions eating Chicken or Fish, there I was time when I didn't eat those but due to a medical condition I need the extra nutrition. I don't approve of popping vitimin pills.
and before anyone jumps on what I just said I'm not saying I think Mc Donald's food is nutritious, I don't eat there often, but almost definatly not stop eating there because of this. I also wouldn't be to surprised if Burger King had Beef flavouring in their oil, but if it was ever confirmed I would probably be just a little dissppointed as I am with Mc Donalds. Here in the UK Burger King offer two veggie alternatives.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that people tend to assume that fries won't contain meat, they're made from potato after all, and are supposed to be fried in vegetable oil. Yes Mc Donalds claim they've never hid the fact that the oil contained beef products, but really, why would you have ever thought to ask ... fries are just potato.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

I agree with you people on one thing: This lawyer could be just another of those slick types, looking to make a quick buck. But I don't really care about getting any money from this whole case. So let's leave that aside, and return to the main point of contention here.
>Ignorance is no excuse for anything
Andy, you say that 'not knowing french fries contain beef' is ignorance. Yes, technically, it is. But you didn't know it either, did you? The point is, it doesn't matter to you; but it does to me. I have worked in McCain Foods (the world's largest producer of french fries), and I know a bit about the process involved here, having talked, just out of curiosity, to people in manufacturing. At no stage (from producer to consumer) is any additives from animal sources involved. The only possible involvement of animal fat can happen when the fries are cooked in lard. (And I always check with the restaurant, to make sure lard wasn't used.)
So what's happening here is that McD is using "minuscule" amounts of beef to probably improve the taste of the fries. And in my opinion, this is adulteration; and either someone should have found this out earlier, or McD should atleast make their franchisees know this. I spoke to my local McD manager; and she said that a recent internal announcement has informed them about the beef content. Obviously, this announcement went out after the lawsuit was filed. And she also said, (this really roused my ire), McD calls it 'natural flavoring'.
(As a sitenote: McD does not buy it's fries from McCain. Burger King does.)
>As long as the seller is willing to make the information available and tell the truth when asked
Like you see above, Cindy, if I had asked my local McD some time back, they would not have known it. I am extremely picky, call me obsessive, about what I am eating. Even when I get salad, I make sure something as innocuous as the salad dressing does not have anchovy in it. And every restarant I go to, I usually send the waitress back, to check in the kitchen if my soup has any animal broth in it
>I can feel their frustration at having found out about the Micky D's fries.
Thanks, Shama, atleast someone can understand how I feel.
>I am allergic to aspirin and i dont just assume that because a painkiller doesnt say aspirin on the label that it is aspirin free.
Bzzzzt. Bad example. If your medication does not list all ingredients, including "minuscule" amounts, feel free to sue them. No one, absolutely no pharmaceutical manufacturer would make that error.

[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited May 06, 2001).]

[Greg Harris]

i have read the posts here and can actually understand how people feel betrayed by McD's... but then i keep coming back to this:
you liked the fries BEFORE you found out they had small amounts of meat in them, so obviously you LIKE TO EAT MEAT! my brother-in-law is from Kuwait and grew up Muslim... he will not eat pork, and i can understand that.
why in the world are you eating at McD's??? why should we (meat eaters) have to sacrifice our preferences to satisfy you (vegetarians)? should McD's now offer 2 kinds of fries? one cooked in lard and the other a plain variation?
i am really tired of having to give up one thing or another because a small group of people feel offended by it. this new politically correct world we live in is geting way out of control. evertime someone feels offended (or threatened) by something, they find some public forum to express their opinion and the media eats it up.
when something bothers me, i just don't go back to that restaurant, store, park... whatever. however, i am not picky and i can accept just about anything, so that does not happen very often.

[Ray Marsh]

I worked at McDs. Grease gets air born everything gets grease on it. You eat something that�s cooked in oil you cannot assume that it is 100% vegetable. In fact if it was pure, in the container, I doubt it would be after sitting open in a cooker all day, in the same kitchen where 100s of burgers and other meat products are being cooked.
The only thing I do see, not lawsuit worthy (IMO), is the veggie meal with fries, IF McDs knowingly included beef products in the preparation process. That would be deserving of a fine for misleading advertising, IMO.

[Andy Ceponis]

Like i said earlier this is America. Most people in America like things a certain way, and guess what......companies cater to us. If they had to cater to every little segment of the population it would be to expensive even for a company like McDonalds to be in business. I can understand if someone is allergic and might possibly get sick or die from some kind of food, but all we are talking about here is a religious belief. And since obviously all the vegetarians have been eating meat products this whole time(even without knowing it) it cannot be all THAT bad. I mean i do not know the specifics of many religions and their food laws, but i doubt it says that you are going to hell(or wherever you go)if you eat a bit of meat. And if it does then someone's got their priorities mixed up in a bad way.
I used to work at McDonalds when i was 15. And i can tell you that if you have ever eaten there, you have eaten meat in one form or another. Even if it is just oil with meat bits or flavoring in it. The oil gets everywhere(on buns, condiments, all the machinery). And it was common practice(as im sure it is at all the mickeyd's) that when someone ordered a hamburger with no meat all we did was take the patty off the bun and repackage it. Sorry to say that, but back then i used to do it all the time because it was faster, and the faster i could get done the faster i could get to go downstairs and have take my break.

[Anonymous]

Just so you know, Jews did not go out and eat at restaurants and then blame the restaurant. They did not eat at restaurants and then came up with the Kosher Certification�s. That is because they truly had belief and were not trying to fool themselves or launch lawsuits.
Personally I think a Vegetarian certification would be much harder and open to interpretation, and thus lawsuits.

[This message has been edited by Jim Yingst (edited May 06, 2001).]

[Jim Yingst]

OK, let's take a deep breath everyone. Personal attacks are not appropriate here. I've edited several of the previous posts to remove parts I though were over the line (and subsequent references to the parts I removed) while trying to leave behind a fair representation of the valid points which you each had to make. I hope you can leave the insults behind now; if they continue I will simply delete insulting posts entirely rather than taking the time to edit them. Thank you.

[Andy Ceponis]

Now this should settle any doubts.....
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,53%7E29867,00.html

[Rahul Rathore]

I am a Hindu living in India- hence what I say here is not for self-protection.
I am dismayed by the non-issue being espoused by some fellow Hindus. Such a picture of intolerance will cause only widespread grief. What perplexes me is the Hindus generating such "sound and fury" over a non-issue are not uneducated rabble rousers. Rather they are mensans (intelligence in top 2% of pop). Perhaps I do not understand because I am not a mensan.
The debate has embraced and confused 3 distinct issues:-
1. Vegitarian v/s Non-vegitarian.
2. Hindu v/s non-Hindu. (beef is no-no for Hindu).
3. Americans v/s outsiders/immigrants.
Had the debate been confined to issue 1, it would have been quite decent. But sadly it has acquired communal/racial overtones. The veggie may be "disappointed" by the minuscle amount of beef. But the Hindu is "enraged". In turn provoking the retaliation of the American against the ungrateful/obscuntarist/job-snatching/evil immigrant.
Religions and sects may prescribe ARBITRARY rules. Eating houses cannot possibly be (legally) expected to take account of each and every religion and sect. They move by commercial considerations. Certainly there can be no legal duty to minutely customize each process and each ingredient to suit the arbitrary religious sensibilities of every small group of people.
McD may have been legally liable if:-
1. The beef flavouring was injurious for health OR
2. It had advertised a "veggie meal" but mixed a substantial (not miniscule) portion of beef.
To expect anything beyond this is unreasonable. Those who want abnormal standards must themselves take abnormal care. I rather think that there should be duty on the followers of the religion to tone down arbitrary and irrational beliefs and prescriptions or at least a duty not to impose them on others.
I am a Hindu and a vegetarian, but I have absolutely no feelings of disappointment, rage, guilt because of the minuscle amount of beef. I don't think that makes me a lesser Hindu.

[Ashok Mash]

Clap..Clap..Clap..
I second what Rahul said.
Ashok - Another Indian Hindu, Evil Immigrant, to Ireland.

[Greg Harris]

Rahul: well said! i think you put this issue to rest with your commentary. i was in the Navy and traveled all over southeast Asia and the Middle East... not once did i find a restaurant that catered to my tastes. but, because i was in a different part of the world, i wanted to experience their culture.
actually, when i was in Aqaba, Jordan we ordered pizza from Pizza Hut... we could not get ham, pepperoni, sausage, or just about anything else... they were not too happy when my ignorant friend tried to order a "Meat Lovers" pizza...
Andy: the reason that lady is going to be 107 is because they also put formaldehyde in the grease... but that is for another discussion
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited May 06, 2001).]

[Greg Harris]

well, i haven't been to McD's in several years... it got to the point that i could actually feel my arteries clogging up from all the grease.
the cigarette issue could be a thread in itself... i actually smoked for about 6 years. i just passed the 7 month smoke-free mark on May 1st.
i am not going to sue Big Tobacco, though. you know why? because even though they did not start off by saying smoking may cause cancer, they are not at fault... i mean, really, how in the world could anyone think that INHALING SMOKE INTO YOUR LUNGS IS NOT HARMFUL??? when you stand by a campfire, do you stand in the line of the smoke, or on the other side? if your house was on fire and there was smoke in the room, would you take a big breath or get out of there?
just another ridiculous lawsuit that should not have gone to trial.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Holy cow! Just when things were starting to get interesting, someone called the cops
For me, vegetarianism is a principle. It's not about religion, it's not about money. And I don't think eating meat would make me an outcast or send me to hell or make me sick, or whatever. It's a lifestyle that I have chosen for myself; and so I feel bitter/enraged when (unbeknownst to me) it has been violated.
The bottom-line of what I am saying here is, if you haven't already read between the lines: I WISH I KNEW.
By the way, Rahul, that was a clearheaded commentary. Good!
It's a bright and beautiful Sunday folks; we've had a pleasant conversation. Here's a quote we can all keep in mind
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.
[James 1:19-20]

[This message has been edited by Nanhesru Ningyake (edited May 06, 2001).]

[Andy Ceponis]

Originally posted by ersin eser:

Why don't you guys stop BS'ing. First stuff yourself with awful junk from McD, which is being marketed as a food and than talk about how bad they are being prepared ?
How could you possibly expect [b]food from Mc D ?
Does cigarette smoking cause CANCER ?
[/B]

Ersin, have you read this topic at all? The quality of food at mickeyd's is not the issue here. And if you dont like it then fine, but your post makes no sense whatsoever. This is not a fine dining thread, and your line about smoking has no bearing either.
1. That is not the issue at hand.
2. Yes i expect food and i get it when i go there.
3. Smoking CAN cause cancer, and the last time i checked it has nothing to do with french fries.

[This message has been edited by Andy Ceponis (edited May 06, 2001).]