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Is Java Dead?  RSS feed

 
Greenhorn
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I'm afraid that java will dissappear soon:
1)IE 6 won't include the JVM and more than 90% use IE.
2)Microsoft has created the .Net technology including c# which is kind of a better version of Java.
3)The only use for the portability of java is for programmers who work on unix. Regular users(more than 95%) use windows. And because c# is better now the c++ will immigrate to c# instead of Java.
So i guess the certification is useless...
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SCJP Eddie Shmukler
 
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Don't say it here.We all are crazy about JAVA.
 
Greenhorn
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You better study C#..... Java is only for intelligent people.
 
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You are talking as if Java were only Applets. What about its present in the Server market? What about its future in embeded-like devices? Who has said that c# is going to be better than Java?
 
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Originally posted by Edward Shmukler:
I'm afraid that java will dissappear soon:
1)IE 6 won't include the JVM and more than 90% use IE.
2)Microsoft has created the .Net technology including c# which is kind of a better version of Java.
3)The only use for the portability of java is for programmers who work on unix. Regular users(more than 95%) use windows. And because c# is better now the c++ will immigrate to c# instead of Java.
So i guess the certification is useless...


JAVA WILL NEVER BE DEAD
C# IS A COPY CAT OF JAVA
JAVA ROCKS IN MANY MANY AREAS OF COMPUTING PARADIGM
ITS NOT A LANGUAGE ANYMORE
ITS A PLATFORM, ITS PERVASIVE, ITS EVERYWHERE!!!
FOR US ITS LIFE
LIKE BINDESH SAID, ITS NOT A GOOD TOPIC TO DISCUSS WITH
RANCHERS,
 
Edward Shmukler
Greenhorn
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If you haven't noticed, i'm an SCJP.
So i know better than most of you.
I have already programmed in C# and i can tell you it's better.
I can understand that you're studying for the exam, but i'm sorry, somebody has to tell the truth.
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SCJP Eddie Shmukler
 
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Well, don't leave us hanging - how is C# better than Java? How much time did it take you to get started, how much of your Java knowledge transferred easily?
Lets have some intelligent analysis here, or are you just Trolling?
Bill
 
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HI Edward!
I read an article about this. Some programmers in the states asked about 4000 programmers what languages the would use next year. It was a very interresting article. However, the resum� was.
"Java will be the most popular language next year. Beating c , c++."
As for C#.. nah... it's just a beta yet....
// Mathias
[This message has been edited by Mathias P.W Nilsson (edited September 01, 2001).]
 
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Hi Edward,
I have been following this topic with interest.I thought it will not be right to discuss this topic here, since this forum is aimed at Programmer Certification Study.However, since so many Javaranchers have posted their replies to this thread, I would also like to present my views.
In the first place, I would like to mention that it is not as simple as putting this issue in one small statement "Is Java DEAD?"
You need to realize that the future of any programming language is not decided by the technology developers but by the business corporates who use these technologies.
I am a COBOL programmer who shifted about 2 years back into Java.Can you say today that COBOL is DEAD?No, there are still hundreds and thousands of applications running on COBOL.Infact COBOL still remains the number#1 language for business applications.Look at the major financial organizations and you would realize this fact.And this is despite the Java boom we witnessed about a year back!
The reasons why COBOL has stayed for over a decade could be many; most important being :

  1. Restraint of end users and Developers to change the language they are so much used to.
  2. Maturity of technology and support by major technology firms like IBM.

  3. There is a reason why corporates would want to shift to Java - A OO language provides less maintenance nightmares compared to non-OO language.However, this shift is not easy.The corporates have still not gone for this migration on a full scale.Even though they realise the benefits of it, they also feel that technology is still immature for such a transition.
    To give you an example - Imagine you are a Business Decision Maker of your firm who has applications running on legacy systems, i.e. systems which donot use the current technology.Will you decide to scrap/migrate say 8 million lines of COBOL application (which has been written 30 years ago and has been modified each year without proper documentation) and replace it with Java?Some of your major concerns would be :

    1. How will I find a team of business consultant who understands this application as well as the customizations done to it for 30 years?
    2. How will I get people who know COBOL and Java?
    3. If I find above, what frameworks/IDEs will I use?
    4. Will I get proper support from my vendor for this transition?
    5. How much time will it take?
    6. Will it be profitable to the business?
    7. ...

    8. This is the business corporates perspective - the actual end users who decide what is going to stay in the market.Normally the Decision Maker would not take a step to migrate their existing applications with such concerning queries.Also, as I said Developers and end users have got used to a programming language for over a decade or so.It is so difficult to ask them for a change!
      So when the transition from COBOL to Java is so difficult, how on earth can we expect a new technology like C# replacing Java before it has made its mark.
      I have a feeling, if there is any language that can beat COBOL, it will be Java.The future of Java would be decided by the likes of IBM.More than 70% (as per report which I read on Sun's page some time back) of the application run on their systems.Since they have decided to help migrate businesses running on IBM Mainframes, IBM AS/400, etc. to Java and related technologies,it will be very difficult for any anti-Java vendor to challenge it!
      So stick with Java!
      -- Sandeep
      SCJP2, OCSD(Oracle JDeveloper), OCED(Oracle Internet Platform)
      [This message has been edited by Desai Sandeep (edited September 01, 2001).]
 
Greenhorn
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I am a Japanese programmer. If you look at the cell phone marktet in Japan, you will know the importance of JAVA technology.
Now the diffusion of the cell phone is huge and more than US. NTT docomo has started to use the Java technology in thier cell phone. Many japanese electronic companies, such as Toshiba, Panasonic and Sony have deciede to use the Java technology in thier electronic items. Java is still growing in server side and embedded area!!! never dead.
 
Anonymous
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You hit it right on the head Hideaki.
Young Mr. Shmukler said himself that he is only 15 years old, so he couldn't have any idea of what Java is doing in the world of embedded technology, server side applications, and B2B and B2C communications.
http://www.javaranch.com/ubb/Forum44/HTML/001113.html
There is more to Java than the world wide web. There are too many corporations that have taken the plunge to upgrade their communications infrastructures to some Java/XML/XSLT combination and they aren't going to let that die because there is a new programming language that might be better.
There is one important thing to remember when looking at "which language is better." This isn't the world of video games and there is no one best system or way to do things. All of the successful programming languages are successful because they fit into some niche. I use COBOL and C every day at work to keep multi-million dollar businesses running. COBOL on the server side is a very powerful, rich language. We use Java and XML to create storefronts and communications packages that are very powerful and versatile, but guess what? We are doing TCP/IP and socket communications in COBOL, too.
Remember this, the language is always secondary to the logic and design, and any language in the right coder's hands can work wonders. Oh, and there are more SCJPs here than you think, and most of them have a lot more real-world experience than you do.

------------------
Brian Hoff
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java� 2 Platform
 
Greenhorn
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Originally posted by Hideaki Takashima:
I am a Japanese programmer. If you look at the cell phone marktet in Japan, you will know the importance of JAVA technology.
Now the diffusion of the cell phone is huge and more than US. NTT docomo has started to use the Java technology in thier cell phone. Many japanese electronic companies, such as Toshiba, Panasonic and Sony have deciede to use the Java technology in thier electronic items. Java is still growing in server side and embedded area!!! never dead.


Cell phones are not as popular in the US as they are in Japan.
Because of cultural differences, Java on cell phones will be in question. 3G wireless is still not popular at all. How many telecom company are making money? Will they be making money? Who would want to watch movies on small cell phone screen?
 
Desai Sandeep
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Hi,
Just to add a small note to my long post earlier!
I forsee success of Java in application integration business.The future is going to be with those who can help migrate or integrate systems written in COBOL, C++, etc into Java and related technologies.
May be the new business will think in terms of C# or a similar new technology like that.But due to downturn, even these businesses will be careful and will like to develop their applications using a proven technology.
From the business perspective, Java is the only language which has made its mark after COBOL.The businesses, if they decide to shift to an OO language can therefore think of only Java and no other technology.
John,
As regards cell phone business, I can only say if this business will succeed, the development has to take place in Java for the reasons mentioned above.I am not sure if people will like to watch movies on that screen, but certainly updating/verifying/getting limited information using hand-held devices seems to become increasingly common.
-- Sandeep
SCJP2, OCSD(Oracle JDeveloper), OCED(Oracle Internet Platform)
[This message has been edited by Desai Sandeep (edited September 02, 2001).]
 
Hideaki Takashima
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Originally posted by John Mills:
Cell phones are not as popular in the US as they are in Japan.
Because of cultural differences, Java on cell phones will be in question. 3G wireless is still not popular at all. How many telecom company are making money? Will they be making money? Who would want to watch movies on small cell phone screen?


I understand what you mean. Of course, there is a big cultural differences between US and Japan. I am talking about the Japanese market, including Korea, Hong Kong and Chine. These areas have more demand of the Java technology because of the diffusion of the cell phone. you should come over to visit Japan or any other Asian countries. You may be surprised at the huge number of people accessing to the Web site or using e-mail with little tiny cell phones. However, I know that American do not like that way because they are too small.
If you are a good Java programmer and speak a little bit of Japanese, you can get a job easily.
 
Edward Shmukler
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I can understand all of you. I just wanted to express my thoughts from my point of view. I like Java very much and i'm know making the project from Sun's "Java Workshop" Course(Includes Networking,Swing and JDBC).
I also agree that Java is better(in my opinion) than C++. But becuase Java is a new Language(5 years) and C++ is 21 years old. C++ is more popular. And i think that C# which is a combination of Java,C++ and VB will soon be popular(It's already popular in beta version).

About Cell-Phones, I really don't know a thing about Java technology in cell-phones(although i heard of it). I think that most java programmers(even Developers and Architects) barely know how to write programs and excecute them on cell-phones. I know i woudn't write programs for cell-phones.
What happend is "Sun" sued "Microsoft" for using Java so Microsoft rewritten java and added some features from C++ and VB. And now C#(In my opinion) is the closest thing to the perfect language.
For Cobol programmers: I have only 3 years experience so i have never used Cobol. So i can't argue with you about it. Cobol is second-level language like C, so it might be a good (or even great) language, but old-fashioned.
When i'll be a little more experienced in C# i will write to you about it.
Hope to see replies...
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SCJP Eddie Shmukler
 
Greenhorn
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Hi I am SCJP too. Can I get a job in Japan? I can speak pretty much Japaese. I am Chinese-Canadian.
 
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i dont understand why people like to make statements, to be the best laugh is the one which is in the last. Rest who laughs in the start or in the middle gets laughed in the end.
If ur smart, what ever u do either its java or C# u'll find some thing for ur self.
Peace.
Jennifer.
 
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midirectorio, ikea63ca
Please read the JavaRanch Name Policy and re-register using a name that complies with the rules.
Thanks for your cooperation.
------------------
Jane Griscti
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java� 2 Platform
 
Greenhorn
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One thing that we have to remember is that not everything that Microsoft makes capitolizes. Almost 3 times as many people use Apache over IIS. Microsoft didn't develop C or C++. The reason those languages hit it off so big is because they are so readily available. Of course they hit it off big because they're scalable and robust, but many languages have been robust and haven't made it anywhere. You can get C++ compilers for windows, Linux, Unix, free compilers, expensive compilers etc. If Microsoft creates a language, they will likely safeguard it against other companies wanting to create their own versions of it. That will be it's downfall. Take java, you can download JDK for free, you can buy Visual Cafe, JBuilder, you can download Forte. My guess is, if Microsoft follows their current pattern, they will make everything proprietary and that will spell out it's demise. I don't believe who ever spouted off that 95% of people use MS windows. Are you forgetting everyone who uses a Mac or who uses Linux?
Of course, I am from a more Open Source nature so my views are slightly tainted, but that's besides the point. Just because MS makes it, doesn't mean it's best. If MS makes a genuinely superior language and adheres to at least some of the openness that other languages have (such as C/C++, Java, Perl) then it very well may be in contention. But I believe that MS will cut off their own foot and make everything very closed and we'll just have a glorified Visual Basic on our hands.
As far as .Net goes, I'm not impressed. the government didn't let AT&T get away with domination and I have a feeling that they will do the same with MS.
My $.02 (probably a little more even)
Ryan
 
John Mills
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Microsoft will use C# to replace C++ and VB. But you still need C++ if you program on Unix. As for Java, it is a platform on its own.
 
John Mills
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Ryan, Java is still controlled by Sun, unlike C++, which is controlled by ANSI.

Originally posted by Ryan Senior:
One thing that we have to remember is that not everything that Microsoft makes capitolizes. Almost 3 times as many people use Apache over IIS. Microsoft didn't develop C or C++. The reason those languages hit it off so big is because they are so readily available. Of course they hit it off big because they're scalable and robust, but many languages have been robust and haven't made it anywhere. You can get C++ compilers for windows, Linux, Unix, free compilers, expensive compilers etc. If Microsoft creates a language, they will likely safeguard it against other companies wanting to create their own versions of it. That will be it's downfall. Take java, you can download JDK for free, you can buy Visual Cafe, JBuilder, you can download Forte. My guess is, if Microsoft follows their current pattern, they will make everything proprietary and that will spell out it's demise. I don't believe who ever spouted off that 95% of people use MS windows. Are you forgetting everyone who uses a Mac or who uses Linux?
Of course, I am from a more Open Source nature so my views are slightly tainted, but that's besides the point. Just because MS makes it, doesn't mean it's best. If MS makes a genuinely superior language and adheres to at least some of the openness that other languages have (such as C/C++, Java, Perl) then it very well may be in contention. But I believe that MS will cut off their own foot and make everything very closed and we'll just have a glorified Visual Basic on our hands.
As far as .Net goes, I'm not impressed. the government didn't let AT&T get away with domination and I have a feeling that they will do the same with MS.
My $.02 (probably a little more even)
Ryan


 
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We must undertake the maturity Java is enjoying with contrast to C# which is only in it's beta version now. In this context Java is not only of 5/6 years maturity rather 10 year's maturity ... as we must count Java's birth from 1991.
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Muhammad Ashikuzzaman (Fahim)
Sun Certified Programmer For Java 2 Platform
--When you learn something, learn it by heart!
 
mister krabs
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I'm moving this to Meaningless Drivel.
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Tom - SCJP --- Co-Moderator of the Programmer Certification Forums
 
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