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Pakistan's support to the US - pros and cons for India

 
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Hi all,
I am concerned about the recent statement by Pakistani President who said that they will support US, if US agrees to participate to solve the Kashmir issue with India.What is Musharraf trying to achieve?Also he said that the debt of some 30 billion USD (am sorry if the figures are incorrect!) should be lifted and that Israel and India should not be pulled into this.
Will US consider this reasonable to consider from the standpoint of Pakistan's support to the US?How does the situation change in the SE Asia, if US decided to interfere in the Kashmir issue?
BTW, I donot understand why US is looking for assistance with Pakistan..even though it knows that Pakistan actively supports Taliban in Afganistan?
Why does it not join hands with India?After all Indians are also the victims of the same for over a decade or so!!
-- Sandeep
[This message has been edited by Desai Sandeep (edited September 16, 2001).]
 
Greenhorn
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NOTHING WILL EVER HAPPEN TO INDIA. DO NOT GET CONCERNED OVER THESE KIND OF ISSUES. THE NEED OF THE HOUR IS TO "JUST OBSERVE"!!!
TAKE MY WORD DEAR FRIEND, WHATEVER HAPPENS HAS REASONS FOR IT, ALWAYS!!!

 
Desai Sandeep
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Hi Mriyank,
I agree with you.But I am curious about the conditional help by Pakistan to the US.What does it want to achieve?
I don't think President Musharraf would be in a comfortable position at home now that he has declared that Pakistan will offer full support to the US.But why is he sidelining India in this fashion?
-- Sandeep
 
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the only reason we (the US) need Pakistan's support is so we can use their airspace... since Afganistan is land-locked (no shore line) we cannot land on their beaches. Pakistan has said that we cannot use their land to stage our troops, though, so they do not want to get fully involved.
i doubt Iran will let us fly over their airspace, so that is out of the question... we have to use Pakistan's air.
we will probably use Russia's airspace and ground to base our troops... but that is too long of a flight for our planes. they only have a certain amount of fuel for the trip, and Pakistan is the best/shortest route.
as for the issue with India and Isreal, i think Pakistan is concerned about having their military forces so close to their border during a hostile time... i think that is a natural and justified concern.
and for Kashmir and the $30B debt, Pakistan realizes that we really need their support, so they are using this to get some things that they want in return. this is a common political move, but remember that President Bush has not agreed to these terms... Pakistan is just negotiating.
[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited September 16, 2001).]
 
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Desai,
This is the exact concern in all of our Indians..
If incase US accepts Pakistan's conditions.. wht will happen for kashmir..? Is US will join hand with Pakistan and kill innocent people in kashmir..as pak doing already..? What will the US's stand over there..? If US true aim is to kill terrorism it should not allow any killing in Kashmir by muslim militants..!
But i didn't understand and totally worried abt India now..
If something good is not happening atleast nothing bad should happen.. bec already India faced lots and lots of problem bec of muslim terrorists..! It should not continue now with US support of Pakistan..!

Thanks again for bringing this topic..
Saran
 
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Originally posted by Desai Sandeep:

BTW, I donot understand why US is looking for assistance with Pakistan..even though it knows that Pakistan actively supports Taliban in Afganistan?
Why does it not join hands with India?After all Indians are also the victims of the same for over a decade or so!!
-- Sandeep



Neither do I !
Maybe the US first wants to eradicate Bin Ladin & THEN fight internationl terrorism . It doesn't want to make this into WW-III . That would obviously happen if it were to take the aid of India or Israel .
The US wants to give Pakistan a shot at Democracy . They are allies afterall .
And hey , maybe India ( & so also Israel & Russia ) is helping the US already but we'll only get to to read 'bout it after 10 years in some unreleased CIA document . Don't forget the news doin the rounds on wednesday that India had provided the FBI detailed maps of 21 training camps along the Pak-Afghan border . Ofcourse Powell & Singh have denied this , but the news has gotta have some base .
Do you people really think that Pakistan can provide the intelligence required to get to Bin Ladin !? Hell , he could be in Pakistan . There are only 3 countries that can provide assistance with this
Israel
India
Russia
As for the Kashmir issue , I don't think The US is gonna meddle in this in it's old style . There is gonna be a proper approach & methodology to such issues . And going by the new definitions of TERRORISM it's gonna be hard times for our sorry neighbour .
I just hope that I , as an Indian get to help the US come HELL OR HIGH WATER .
Ashish
 
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this is just my opinion but i dont think my government will accept pakistans aid if there are lots of strings attached. especially i dont believe they will get involved in kashmir. they might forgive the debt though. they have done that many times in the past. that is one reason why taxes are so high here and our own national debt is so high.


i doubt Iran will let us fly over their airspace, so that is out of the question... we have to use Pakistan's air.


i did hear something about maybe iran will help. with our stealth planes it would be hard to prove who's airspace we violated anyway.
 
Greg Harris
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i did hear something about maybe iran will help. with our stealth planes it would be hard to prove who's airspace we violated anyway.


when i was in the Gulf in '96 we launched about 20 missiles on Iraq... several of them came from the stealths. nobody would let us use their airspace, so the pilots had to fly the entire route over water.
however, i also heard that Iran is sympathetic to our cause... but that does not change the tension between us. this is a completely different situation, so maybe they will let us fly over... but i doubt it.
 
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Here's my opinion, feel free to tell me I'm full of it, just don't use too many swear words.
Pakistan and India are at odds.
Now add that Pakistan has the same type of government as Afghanistan and may have helped Osama Bin Laden.
Now add the terrorist attack with Bush saying that the countries who harbor the terrorists will be treated exactly the same as the terrorists themselves.
Result: Pakistan is looking down the wrong end of shotgun barrel...unless...it starts working with the US.
Not only that, it seems to me that India would love to kick the crap out of Pakistan with the help of a few large-muscled friends (US, Britain, etc.) Again, Pakistan gets to avoid this with some cooperation.
As a side benefit, chances of WWIII happening is a little bit lessened. Pakistan will try to get something out of it of course, but don't expect them to get too much. They are looking to be big losers if they don't work with the US. India will be oh so glad to be the base of attack against Pakistan. And it's so nicely situated on the Indian Ocean...with aircraft carriers that patrol it...lots of firepower, no waiting.
Of course, I could be overestimated the tenstions between India and Pakistan. Am I? Again, just my opinion.
Paul R
 
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Your idea is almost close to reality, Paul.
To the best of my belief, most of the Indians are not very enthusiastic about a full-fledged war against any country, even against Pakistan, though it is the most favourite topic to discuss over dinner table in Indian households... We debate furiously about Islamic Terrorism, USAs Env. Policies, Code Red, Cinemas and such numerous topics side by side, and criticize anything that�s against our spirits... But we still keep it clear in our senses that ours is a Secular country and that means lot of adjustments in action or thoughts, to keep that fragile balance between religious sentiments or a billion individuals...
And, then we think standing in the shoes of an ordinary citizen of a 'still-developing-only' country - Though our visionary leaders have funded, and our researchers have successfully executed so many high profile war machines into our defence forces, average Indian still don't fancy a war !
We are worried about terrorism, as any where else, in Kashmir also.. As I posted before, every one have their own tragic story to share. I am from the very south tip of India, and if I have 3 of my relatives blown into pieces protecting our north most borders, you can imagine the suffering of people across the country...
All we worried about is, Pakistan should not get more funds and support to increase its moral, monitory and military support to cross border militancy, which have cost India 53,000 lives in last 20 years!!
Yes, as Paul mentioned, we need allies to fight back in large scale. Powerful friends to understand & appreciate the action against those who support cross-border militancy in Kashmir - not really military or money wise.. That we will manage - we have done that a couple of times before also - That too in style
Ashok.
[This message has been edited by J Ash (edited September 17, 2001).]
 
Saran Vel
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Well said Ashok..!
 
Mriyank Kishco
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DO NOT THINK USA IS A FOOL TO BLINDLY ACCEPT PAKISTAN'S ACCEPTANCE OF SUPPORT. HISTORY HAS BEEN A WITNESS TO PAKISTAN'S CRAZY WAY OF HANDLING ITS GOVERNMENT. LIFTING MONETARY SANCTIONS WHEN ALREADY THE WORLD IS REELING UNDER RECESSION IS SOMETHING TO BE THOUGHT ABOUT. AND NOW WITH NYSE CLOSED FOR A WEEK AND ITS MAJOR EFFECT ON THE MAJOR INDUSTRIES, THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT. PAKISTAN IS UNDER LOSS ANYWAYS. WITH INDIA FORMING A COMMENDABLE GLOBAL MARKET, NOBODY IS A FOOL TO SIDE WITH PAKISTAN. PAKISTAN IS A NERVOUS BABY TAKEN CARE BY "A SENSIBLE DADDY, USA"
 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Desai Sandeep:
Hi Why does it not join hands with India?After all Indians are also the victims of the same for over a decade or so!!

Part of that is India's own fault. India and the US had some bad relations during the cold war because of India's pro-USSR stance. Some people in the US have long memories. If India had been more pro-US, we would probably never have supported Pakistan in the first place.
 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
... India's pro-USSR stance.


India has never been pro-USSR. It has just seeked its own way. As a matter of fact Nehru (India), Nasser (Egypt) and Tito (Yugoslavia) founded the so-called non-aligned movement that basically seeked neutrality in the cold war, correct me if I am wrong. No flames plz.
 
Thomas Paul
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From The Yale Political Quarterly: India-US Relations: A Conflict-Ridden Past, A Cooperative Economic Future by Ranjan Goswami.

The USSR and India forged close ties due in part to the Soviet Union's affirmation of Nonalignment objectives and in part to India's many socialist programs including the nationalization of several large industries. Furthermore, Nehru's "Five Principles" for good relations: sovereignty, non-interference, independence, equality, and non-aggression, were also supported by the USSR. American suspicions of India were further heightened by Krushchev's 1955 visit to New Delhi and the 1971 signing of the Soviet-India Friendship Treaty, which pledged mutual support against antagonistic powers (US and China). The US retaliated by renewing relations with China, which first they bestowed China a seat in the Security Council rejecting Taiwan, and secondly, in the 1972 Sino-American Summit, the Shanghai Communiqu�, which stated their joint rejection of Soviet hegemony in Asia. India identified this shift in American policy and realized that the US had now allied with India's two main threats: China and Pakistan. The obvious irony in Indian and US policy was that both democracies had befriended proponents of communism.


[This message has been edited by Thomas Paul (edited September 18, 2001).]
 
omar khan
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Thomas, in front of such erudition I can't replicate .

Anyway what I meant was this: since 15th August 1947, the day India became independent, India has been a Democracy and a free and a proud country. Just like US.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
Anyway what I meant was this: since 15th August 1947, the day India became independent, India has been a Democracy and a free and a proud country. Just like US.

I agree! I have always been amazed that the US and India didn't have better relations during the cold war.
 
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The real villain of the piece in the WTC attacks is the US government itself. Inspite of all that happened it cannot bring itself to stop seeing islamic fundamentalism as the lesser of the two evils. This is apparent from the soft stance the US government has adopted towards Pakistan. The events of the past two weeks gives us sufficient reason to suspect the US government had collaborated with Pakistan's programme for funding and training islamic militants. The current belligerence displayed by the US administration is pure posturing meant to appease the American public. My prediction is that all of this is mere talk and they will not lift a finger against the guilty parties. If I am proved wrong I shall eat a copy of "The complete Java 2 reference - Patrick Naughton & Herbert Schildt"
[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 18, 2001).]
 
"The Hood"
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First we would have to agree on who is the "guilty parties".
 
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India has carefully steered its foreign policy to its own advantage. India has its own ambitions to become a world policeman like the US of A. India's acquisition of missile technology and aircraft carriers is a step in this direction.
India has always been in the USSR camp. But it benefitted both from the US and USSR. While Pakistan did US's dirty work, being part of CENTO and SEATO alliances and driving out the Russians from AFghanistan which effectively ended the cold war for the US.
India democracy benefits its elite, not the Millions of untouchables or Muslims or Christian Missionaries who are raped and burned alive. In this sense that so called democracy is truly a tyranny of the majority.
 
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Originally posted by Sahir Shibley:
The events of the past two weeks gives us sufficient reason to suspect the US government had collaborated with Pakistan's programme for funding and training islamic militants.


Where did you come up with this one? You seriously believe the US has been colaborating with Pakistan in order to fund islamic militants? You're going to have to back up your statement I'm afraid.
I have no clue where you are getting this from, but if you have drawn this conclusion because we sought Pakistan's "assistance" you have misinterpreted the situation. We don't trust Pakistan as far as we can throw them. We have twisted Pakistan's arm into helping us. I'm sure it was strongly presented to Pakistan that it was in their best interest to assist us with whatever we need. And basically what we need from them is use of their airspace.
What other country are we going to fly over on our way to Afghanistan? Iran? China? Russia? Get serious. Your baseless accusations that we are "collaborating" with Pakistan like you say are absurd.
Now if you are talking about many years ago when the Soviets were at war in Afghanistan, then I would believe it. At the time it was basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We would give aid to anybody fighting the Soviets, and they would give aid to anyone opposed to us. That's how it goes in a bipolar world.
But if you are insuating that this is the case since the fall of the Soviet Union and the spread Islamic Fundamentalism, you are going to have to give us some supporting info.
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited September 18, 2001).]
 
Thomas Paul
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As far as Kashmir goes, if the US agrees to mediate the situation we can be quite sure that this will be as successful as our mediation in Northern Ireland, Palestine, and numerous other places. In other words, we will talk a lot and have lots of meetings and try to keep India and Pakistan from killing each other but not accomplish much. The US will not take sides and send troops in to help Pakistan take over the area.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Sahir Shibley:
The real villain of the piece in the WTC attacks is the US government itself. Inspite of all that happened it cannot bring itself to stop seeing islamic fundamentalism as the lesser of the two evils.

And what, exactly, is the other evil that islamic fundamentalism is the lesser of? I can guarantee that if Dubya does nothing that he will not be re-elected.
 
Paul Ralph
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The real villain of the piece in the WTC attacks is the US government itself. ...My prediction is that all of this is mere talk and they will not lift a finger against the guilty parties.


If this is what you meant, then I suppose you are right.

If I am proved wrong I shall eat a copy of "The complete Java 2 reference - Patrick Naughton & Herbert Schildt"


If, on the other hand, you mean the people behind the terrorists, I hope you're hungry. I'll send you my address for a copy of the videotape.
Paul R
 
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>I can guarantee that if Dubya does nothing that he will not be re-elected.
It's funny you say that, because his daddy won the war against Iraq, but got thrown out anyway a few months later. Similar was the case of Winston Churchill - the Brits didn't re-elect him either.
 
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Politicians like to make war, guess it makes them feel powerful. Then again, they're not the ones in the trenches It's everyone else that pays that price

[This message has been edited by Jane Griscti (edited September 18, 2001).]
 
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People in India, and I know there are a lot who read this board, need to calm down. The USA is not suddenly going to be "pro-Pakistan" at the expense of India. Economically, India is very important to us in the long run as you (Indians) are showing yourselves as having the capacity to be the best in the world in technology in spite of your many internal problems, like over-population. People in the US and Europe respect this a lot.
While militant Islam has been a threat to India for a long time, it's going to end soon. With the attack on the US things are reaching point where the *moderate* muslim powers MUST end it for their own existence, or they are going to suffer the direct rath of the US & Western Europe on a scale they will not be able to survive. India (nor Israel) have not had the power to do this. Just as the free and democratic countries defeated Japan, Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union- these 7th century terrorists have gone too far and will be crushed.
Militant Islam may have a lot of passion but they have FAR less economic and military power than the West. The *only* thing the muslim world has is oil, and the West could, even though it's expensive, develop its own resources if it had to.
I think the peaceful Muslims- and the vast majority are peaceful people - are waking up and realizing that they MUST stop the small minority who are bringing their religion and their societies to the brink of destruction. Blowing up buildings and killing thousands of innocent people is not what Islam is about, and I think smart people in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc are coming to realize that they must stop these crazy people in their own countries, for their well-being.
If they cannot do it, then they will be utterly isolated and impoverished by the West. The US+ W. Europe + Japan are 80% of the world economy, but are only 10% of the world's population. Just think about this fact. We want everyone to prosper, but those who want to fight a 7th century Jihad religious war are going to find that they are 1000+ years too late, and a few trillion dollars short!


[This message has been edited by M Prembroke (edited September 19, 2001).]
 
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Economically, India is very important to us in the long run as you (Indians) are showing yourselves as having the capacity to be the best in the world in technology in spite of your many internal problems, like over-population. People in the US and Europe respect this a lot.


Prem, thanks for the kind words about our country.
 
Sahir Shibley
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
And what, exactly, is the other evil that islamic fundamentalism is the lesser of?


Islamic fundamentalism is seen as a bulwark against communism, hence it is seen by the U.S. as a necessary evil. It is an open secret that the terrorist training camps in Pakistan were set up by the Americans during the cold war. In the absence of evidence that America had subsequently pulled the plug on these camps, the original assumption stands.

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 20, 2001).]
 
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And just to add, in the war against napak-istan, there was one hero who turned the tide over to them inspite of them having the famous US built Patten (or Patan or whatever) tanks. Of course, he was honoured with Param -vir chakra (the top most military honour in India). Noboday can forget him...he was Param Vir, Abdul Hamid. A muslim.
 
zulfiqar raza
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There are a lot of indians on this forum, now hurling insults at Pakistan. (napakistan) I hope the moderators take note.
Also someone mentioned "Indian tanks in downtown Karachi in 1965". I dont want to make this into a military forum but when you make absurd claims as such do try to back them up.
 
zulfiqar raza
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I have an Afghan colleague who claims that as the Mujahedein were pushing out the Russians out of Afghanistan they actually drove all the way to Moscow. He knows it because he woke up in downtown Kremlin ;-)
 
omar khan
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What is the sense of all this jingoism?
Is it going to help India or Pakistan?
Or bring development?
Somebody will certainly get an advantage if India and Pakistan can't get along well...
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Sahir Shibley:
Islamic fundamentalism is seen as a bulwark against communism, hence it is seen by the U.S. as a necessary evil. It is an open secret that the terrorist training camps in Pakistan were set up by the Americans during the cold war. In the absence of evidence that America had subsequently pulled the plug on these camps, the original assumption stands.

The cold war has been over for 10 years. Communism is dead except in China and no one cares about China as long as they keep making the toys for our McKids meals. To say that the US is sponsoring Islamic fundamentalism in order to fight communism is bizarre. Why not claim we are supporting the fundamentalists to keep the Indians (I mean American Indians) from taking over Fort Apache?
[This message has been edited by Thomas Paul (edited September 19, 2001).]
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Sahir Shibley:
Why would members of a minority community go out of their way to risk their necks for a country like India that ill treats minorities?

Beats me! Ask the black men who fought in Korea but weren't permitted to vote or attend decent schools in the south.
 
Anonymous
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Sorry to hurt your feelings, zulfiqar. But that's a fact. Your nation was built because of the evil ( and pretty shrewed) thinking of England. I can't blame them because they were anyway outsiders and would obviously apply every trick to sustain their rule. What saddens me is that your founder was one of us. It was the "na-pak" designs of Jinnah ( and to some extent Nehru also) that India got partitioned.
Well, people can't do much once their leader makes a mistake. I am also refering to Nehru's BIG mistake of halting the our troops and running to UN when they were about recliam the lost Kashmir. We are still paying the price. Well, history had just repeated, Prithiraj Chauhan had forgiven the life of Md. Ghazni (or Lodhi?). He had to pay the price with his life.
Anyway, even after the partition, you are obsessed with idea of breaking up India. You sponcer terrorism in India. You give refuge to Mumbai bomb blast suspect Dawood Ibrahim. In the name of Jihad, you are trying to separate Kashmir.
Funny, Jinnah named it "Pak"istan.
 
zulfiqar raza
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No you did not 'hurt' my feelings. You just showed your own mentality. Entire books have been written regarding why Pakistan was formed. Ranging from conspiracy of the Brits to legitimate demands by defranchised population to other claims that different regions of the subcontinent are culturally and linguistically quite different to be regarded as one nation. Anyways I wont go into this.
However your "facts" about history etc are as twisted as your logic. Regarding Pakistan's name it was never liked by our founder Mr. Jinnah. It does not necessarily mean 'pure' but it was coined by Chaudhry Mohd. Ali in his Pakistan Movement to mean 'Punjab-Afghania-Kashmir-Sindh-Baluchistan'. By the way Ch. Mohd. Ali was exiled to England after Pakistan was formed.
Again read some military history and both sides before you go on claiming about the war in 1949 over Kashmir. As far as "Jihad" in Kashmir in concerned read up about the United Nations Security council resolution for a plebiscite in Kashmir which was never implemented becuase of Indian instragince. Where women are regularly raped by Indian soldiers.
Finally Dawood Ibrahim resides in United Arab Emirates. India has never been able to extradite him given Indian government is much more interested in the Billions of dollars Indian workers send home to India from the Gulf countries every year. And Dawood Ibrahim connection in the Mumbai blasts results from the regularly occuring Hindu-Muslim riots in India having nothing to do with Pakistan.
 
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<quote>
Quote by zulfiqar raza:
India democracy benefits its elite, not the Millions of untouchables or Muslims or Christian Missionaries who are raped and burned alive. In this sense that so called democracy is truly a tyranny of the majority.
<quote>
Zulfiqar Raja might have come to this opinion by reading and listening to Pakistan media.
India is not as clean as USA. India is poorer than USA and it has lot of illeterate people. Untouchability is there for hundreds of years. Untouchability is within the Hindu community. Hindus never treated muslims and christians as untouchables. That is one reason why many lower caste people are taking christianity.
The well established and schools among the best are christian missionary schools in India. People feel proud to say they have studied in a christian school.
The government is spending lots of many to bring up the lower caste people ( who are called as untouchables or dalits ) and they have reservations in government jobs and political seats also. The untouchability been there for hundreads of years, we can not simply remove it out. It takes time. Now there is no untouchability in cities or in higher education. Educated people feel guilty to ask ones caste.
Muslims and Christians have equal access to education. Otherwise how can we have a brilliant scientist 'APJ Abdul Kalam', back bone to India missile technology? How can we have one of the world richest man 'Ajim Premji', Wipro owner?
Many top actors in Bollywood cinema industry are muslims. Our most successful film music musician is muslim. These are just few examples.
There are so many rape cases all over the country every year. Why are you looking in to a particular case where the victims happen to be christians?
If really christans are suffering how Sonia Gandhi can became president of largest political party in India. She is Italian borned and Christian.

Read Indian history not from Pakistan history books, from some unbiased historians.

[This message has been edited by Prasad Charasala (edited September 19, 2001).]
 
Anonymous
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Originally posted by zulfiqar raza:
No you did not 'hurt' my feelings. You just showed your own mentality. Entire books have been written regarding why Pakistan was formed.


Formation of pakistan was simply an act of selfishness and greed on th part of Indian leaders (at that time Jinnah was also Indian). Thick volumes may camouflage it but they cannot change it.


Regarding Pakistan's name it was never liked by our founder Mr. Jinnah. It does not necessarily mean 'pure' but it was coined by Chaudhry Mohd. Ali in his Pakistan Movement to mean 'Punjab-Afghania-Kashmir-Sindh-Baluchistan'.


I agree with it. However, that's the irony I was trying to point out which was lost on you.


Again read some military history and both sides before you go on claiming about the war in 1949 over Kashmir.


May be you've read better. And what did you read? I'll bet, a thick volume of "fatwahs" given by mullahs.
It is a well known fact that pakistan had used the money that it got from the partition to arm Kabailis, who tried to run over Kashmir. It was a proxy war by pakistan to accquire Kashmir in which it partly succeed.
Historical Facts:
1. It was very foolish of the King of JK (I am forgetting his name, Raja Hari Singh?) that he delayed the decision of joining Indian Union. By the time Sardar Patel persuaded him to join Indian Union, kabailis had already crossed 1/3 of Kashmir. But as soon as he decided, Indian troops joined with his army and stoped them.
2.Sardar Patel was strongly against giving any money to pakistan after partition but again, this time it was the generocity of Gandhiji.


As far as "Jihad" in Kashmir in concerned read up about the United Nations Security council resolution for a plebiscite in Kashmir which was never implemented becuase of Indian instragince.


Very smart. It is well know that due crime against minority Hindus, very few Hindus are left there. pakistanis have percolated into the system. And you are talking about plebiscite.
That's precisely the game plan terrorist are trying to follow.
In fact, your ISI is applying the same plan in the border villages near Bangladesh. Terrorize and chase away poor Indian villagers and then the territory can be easily grabbed by the support of remaining people who anyway support pak/bdesh.
[/b]


Where women are regularly raped by Indian soldiers.


Nothing can be father from the truth than this. It is in fact the "imported" "freedom" fighters who are doing this. Pakistan is bringing illiterate and war monger afghans how know nothing except to use weapons in the name of "mujahidin". It's they who have no feelings towards Kahmiris (they are not even Kashmiris for god sake!!) who are doing this kind of things. After fighting russian, they don't have anything to do and are fighting simple for money which Pak leaders are supplying aplenty (of course, at the cost you, pak's public).
No wondor, your leaders have to make you believe all wrong things about India. How else will they fool you into spending money on hired freedom fighters???


Finally Dawood Ibrahim resides in United Arab Emirates.


That's what you and your president says. And that's why I called it "napak".
This is what musharraf said: http://www.indian-express.com/ie20010718/nat16.shtml
This is the fact: http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/100901/dtlfor17.asp

You take care!

 
Eager Beaver
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India has carefully steered its foreign policy to its own advantage.


That should explain why we are not in a messy situation like you.

Also someone mentioned "Indian tanks in downtown Karachi in 1965".


Count your blessings kid and don't whimper.

I have an Afghan colleague who claims that as the Mujahedein were pushing out the Russians out of Afghanistan they actually drove all the way to Moscow. He knows it because he woke up in downtown Kremlin ;-)


Hey kiddo, your sense of humor is a bit too morbid.

 
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