aiding terrorism

[Anuj Anand]

Well i respect each and every person's opinion . I guess the taliban which has terrorists in India and are recallling them for fighting the US and its allies is known in America only now. It has been an evil scourge on India for past so many years . Last year an Indian Airlines plane was hijacked to kandahar in Afghanistan...What i would want to ask is why that statement from Bush "From now on we will deal with terrorism" .Are and have they been insensitive to the Indians and Israelis plight over all these years??
To rephrase the question should Americans be involved more or less from now on to pressurize Pakistan to stop aiding terrorists
This question is again directed to all Americans....

[zulfiqar raza]

My friend, I think your presumptions are totally wrong. India is leading and pioneering and harboring of terrorist. For example look at these excerpts from the FAS (Federation of American Scientists) sites. Which should be more relevant to our American friends.
Throughout the Afghan War RAW (Indian agency) was responsible for the planning and execution of terrorist activities in Pakistan to deter Pakistan from support of Afghan liberation movement against India's ally, the Soviet Union. The assistance provided to RAW by the KGB enabled RAW to arrange terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities throughout the Afghan War.
Another example of terrorist activities against America is the following:
The Indian embassy's covert activities are reported to include the infitration of US long distance telephone carriers by Indian operatives, with access to all kinds of information, to r blackmail relatives of US residents living in India. In 1996 an Indian diplomat was implicated in a scandal over illegal funding of political candidates in the US. Under US law foreign nationals are prohibited from contributing to federal elections. The US District Court in Baltimore sentenced Lalit H Gadhia, a naturalised US citizen of Indian origin, to three months imprisonment. Gadhia had confessed that he worked as a conduit between the Indian Embassy and various Indian-American organisations for funnelling campaign contributions to influence US lawmakers. Over $46,000 from the Indian Embassy was distributed among 20 Congressional candidates. The source of the cash used by Gadhia was Devendra Singh, a RAW official assigned to the Indian Embassy in Washington. Illicit campaign money received in 1995 went to Democratic candidates including Sens. Charles S. Robb (D-Va.), Paul S. Sarbanes (D -Md.) and Reps. Benjamin L. Cardin (D-Md.) and Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.).


[This message has been edited by zulfiqar raza (edited September 21, 2001).]

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

>diplomat was implicated in a scandal over illegal funding of political candidates in the US
Explain this to me: what's it got to do with supporting terrorism? Surely those Democratic candidates weren't terrorists, were they?!

[Ken Bates]

To Anuj Anand:
Your premise is off entirely. The United States has been fighting terrorism and has spent more then any other country to eradicate it. You asked if the US has been "insensitive to the Indians and Israelis plight over all these years??" If it wasn't for the United States support Israel would have ceased to exist years ago. This is one of the reason we are hated by many in the Middle East. This was really a Middle East problem that no country except for Israel wanted to do anything about. Now the terrorist act has been so exterme (far bigger than anything that has happened in India or any where else for that matter) that we have to go in and clean up the Middle East mess. In the past we would have been attack by nations as overstepping our bounds if we had done this. Now the people in this country are pissed and we could care less what these countries say.

[Bartholemu Smith]

Ken the US has also funded people "Terrorists" to over throw regimes in their foreign interests. They funded Osama Bin Laden.
They need to look at foregin policies. We need to make the world safer for everyone not just the US, UK, canada etc..
The people in Afganistan live in poverty and living in such harsh conditions only breeds such hate and anger for the west.
We need to find out how we can make them value life and make the world safe for them also. Everyday is liek war for them, dont forget that. Saying that..Killing innocent people is inexcusable and nothing can justify such actions.

[Ken Bates]

To Faisal Dosani:
It is time to wake up. You are not crowing for girlfriend on a college campus. I will repeat myself the U.S has done more than anyother nation on earth to try to solve this problem. You mention "The people in Afganistan live in poverty and living in such harsh conditions only breeds such hate and anger for the west." Well the U.S. has sent more aid and relief workers than any other nation. We have been repay by having innocent people killed. Many of the relief worker are now hostages of the Taliban. The United States is neither equiped nor responsible to solve everyones problem. The people in the United States are living the good live because our ancestors were willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. Many of them died in the hopes that their children would be better off. That is why as Americans we need to make the world safe for us. My concern is not to teach Afgans how to value life. They should be standing up to their government and attempting to overthrow it, not leaving the country like cowards.

[Bartholemu Smith]

Well Ken you are so noble...Why dont we not feed you and give you NOTHING.. and then send you on your way to fight a battle you will never win.
I think you need to wake up. The people who you give aid to are not the people killing you. Its sad people died in the US but its also sad that people there are suffering...
Your intitled to your opinon. I am not saying your wrong, but you cant jump into this. Cool heads must prevail.
Faze

[Bartholemu Smith]

you never even addressed the previous statement about the Us govt funding these "Terrorists" in the past...what do you have to say to that? Nothing obvoiusly...

[Rosie Vogel]

Originally posted by Ken Bates:

They should be standing up to their government and attempting to overthrow it, not leaving the country like cowards.

I think that is rather unrealistic. The Afghan people are poor and unarmed, and the Taliban are a bunch of well-trained psychopaths. You may want to read about it here .

[This message has been edited by Rosie Vogel (edited September 24, 2001).]

[Cindy Glass]

Originally posted by Faisal Dosani:
They need to look at foregin policies.

What do you think that we have been doing for the last 13 days?

Killing innocent people is inexcusable and nothing can justify such actions.

Who said anything about killing innocent people. Are you convicting us before we do ANYTHING?

[Bartholemu Smith]

Cindy
I was talking about the WTC attacks...
And with regard to your foregin policies, were you planning on looking at them before Sept 11th?

[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 24, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 24, 2001).]

[Bartholemu Smith]

Ok..you know what my goal is not ot make enemys and some of these discussions are getting heated. I think I need to take a step back and not discuss this subject anymore. I am just as upset as anyone else is. Those idiots will get whats coming to them one way or the other.

[Cindy Glass]

OK, I re-read your statement, and I guess I took it wrong. It sort of reads like you think that we are going to kill innocent Afghanistan folks.

[Bartholemu Smith]

Cindy ..sorry If I seem angry or what not.
As a Canadian I am 100% behind my American friends / neighbours
My thought is that cool heads must prevail thats all...
Sorry again
Faisal

[Cindy Glass]

No problem - you are allowed to be upset. We are all upset.
And mis-communication is the biggest problem in the world today.

[Bartholemu Smith]

No doubt. This is a test for the entire world.

[Ken Bates]

To Faisal Dosani:
I didn't comment on the idea that the U.S funds terrorism, because it is absurd. The United States helped arm the people in Afganistan against from one of the biggest threats of the 20th Century. This threat was the Soviet Union. The Soviets had a clear doctrine and that was to impose their communist ideology on the rest of the world. Be thankful the United States stood in their path or the entire planet would now be under their control. At the time Osama bin Laden was fighting the Soviets and defending Afganistan. Only after the Afgan people were succeful in repeling the Soviets did Osama bin Laden begin to take on bigger objectives. To say we funded terrorism is as absurd as saying any former employer of Timothy McVey also funded terrorism.

[Bartholemu Smith]

Sure thing Kenny B
I am tired of the subject and bumping heads with people. It seems that your set in your views, which is fine.
BTW you can call me Faisal or Faze no need for the "Faisal Dosani" its not like we are in some formal setting.

[Daniel Dunleavy]

Ken,
You have to admit we haven't always taken the high road. Thats how the 'bay of pigs' happened. If we aren't willing to admit our flaws, it gives the otherside that much more reason to hold to their ideas.
I don't approve of many of the things our government has done in the past, but I don't believe we target 'all innocents' like at the WTC. And that is why I think we are justified in what we are doing now.
Dan

[Ken Bates]

If you want to beleieve the US funds terrorism you are very naive. It is time to wake up and relize our way of life is at stake, and there is not time for these ridculous games. Offer one shread of evidence that the US has supported terrorism. There is none. The Bay of Pigs was not a terrorist act. We support Cuban nationals to take back their own governement from a dictator. Castro seized all property from them and from United States citzens. I would like to see how you would react if you lost every thing you worked for in your life because some dictator wanted to grab it up and set up his headquaters there. The Bay of Pigs is often reffered to as a disaster because it was so badly planed, not because it was a bad idea. If you would like to live under a dictator that will control your every move and thought then I'm sure there is room for one more over in Havana. If you are an American you should be ashamed of yourself. I would like you to take a trip Manhatan and stand at the site of the former World Trades Center and start shooting your mounth off that Americans support terrorism. See how far you get.

[Bartholemu Smith]

Calm down there Mcfly...
Easy with the anger and negativity. People are entitled to their opinions, not only the ones you hold.
Faze

[Steve Holmes]

Wow this discussion really has gotten heated. I'd like to make a couple of points however, and perhaps people can respond.
1. I'd like to say that the U.S. has always had a pretty clear idea of whom our enemies are, The soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Emperial Japan, Communist China, etc. But at the same time we have always had the attitude of "the enemy of our enemy is our friend". Stalin used to be our ally and he was just as evil as Hitler. Mind you, this is not a critisism, we have to chose the greater of two evils sometimes, but it has gotten us in trouble. At various times we have allied with dictators in Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia to name a few, now we are forming an alliance with a dictator in Pakistan. I'm just hoping this doesn't come back and bite us in the ass.
2. We are not going to beat terrorism without full cooperation from at least most other nations. That is why Bush gave an ultimatum. Other countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and not least of all Canada and Mexico must police their own countries for terrorism otherwise they will get into our nation. This is not a U.S. problem only, many other countries deal with the same terrorists all the time, but do not have the resources to deal with it.
3. It's unrealistic to think that any of the people in the middle east can rise up against their oppressors like the U.S. did. We were able to beat the British because there was not the desparity of weapons, there is 3000 miles of water between us and them, and also because the French lowned us there Navy. Even still we were on the verge of total defeat many times. Untrained civilians with rocks cannot beat trained soldiers with automatic weapons and tanks.

[Ken Bates]

"Untrained civilians with rocks cannot beat trained soldiers with automatic weapons and tanks. " Oh really that sounds like what Russian Special Forces said before they invaded Afghanistan!

[Nathan Pruett]

It was true... Afghans armed with rocks and sticks had no chance to beat the Russians. That is, until the Americans funded them and gave them machine guns, rocket launchers, and bombs... and taught them guerrilla warfare tactics...

Oh, wait... you said that America did not back terrorists... so I guess that I am wrong...

-Nate

[Anonymous]

Except they were not terrorists at the time. They were fighting to keep Russia from taking over. Get your facts straight. They became terrorist after the war.

[Ken Bates]

This will be my last post on this subject. The United States does not fund terrrorism. You should truely be ashamed of yourself for even saying so. Someday I think you will regret your stupidity.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Ken Bates:
The United States does not fund terrrorism.

I agree. However, there is different aspect to what it does in other countries too.
It's not like US did everything "selflessly"...without having any ulterior motive. Why did US poke it's nose in the matter Afgh. and USSR? May be you'll say because it was the right thing to do as USSR was oppressing them and being another superpower, it was US's "obligation" to help Afgh. people. Well, then after the collapse of USSR and complete devastation of Afgh. why did US totally pack up it's act??? It didn't wait a second to turn it's back on the region for which it so "selflessly" dedicated it's resources. It didn't even look back at the devastation that remained. No aid, no nothing.
If you think, US armed Afgh. "selflessly", your are as naive as you are calling others to be.
Did US not use Pakistan to stooge to ONLY get back at USSR? If not, then why was there a sudden coldness in US-Pak relationship before WTC? Why did it start cozying up to India? And as soon as WTC happened, it sidelined India and started cozying up to Pak again. Isn't pak ruled by a "dictator" anymore? Aren't they proliferation nuclear weapons anymore??? The reason is, it solves US's purpose. That's it.
Accept it, whatever US is not "selfless".
I am not saying that whatever US did or does was/is wrong. Obviously, everybody in the world thinks for himself first, so there is nothing wrong if US has ulterior motives.
You keep on harping that US sends this and that, aid/relief workers, all over the world. Probably you do not know that nearly all the countries do that. Even a poor country like India does that.
Also, you are probably unaware of the fact that US ows largest amount to the UN.

[Andy Ceponis]

I am getting so F***ing sick of hearing shit like:

Well i respect each and every person's opinion . I guess the taliban which has terrorists in India and are recallling them for fighting the US and its allies is known in America only now. It has been an evil scourge on India for past so many years . Last year an Indian Airlines plane was hijacked to kandahar in Afghanistan...What i would want to ask is why that statement from Bush "From now on we will deal with terrorism" .Are and have they been insensitive to the Indians and Israelis plight over all these years??
To rephrase the question should Americans be involved more or less from now on to pressurize Pakistan to stop aiding terrorists
This question is again directed to all Americans....

The people in Afganistan live in poverty and living in such harsh conditions only breeds such hate and anger for the west.
We need to find out how we can make them value life and make the world safe for them also. Everyday is liek war for them, dont forget that. Saying that..Killing innocent people is inexcusable and nothing can justify such actions.

I love how it always turns into how America isnt doing enough for everyone else. And somehow all these poor people in afghanistan or *insert name here* are poor because of america. And they have a right to be mad at america because their moronic governments keep them down. Ive never seen ANYONE help america EVER. Does ANY of the countries that are being mentioned give aid to the U.S? Nope. Do we give aid to them? Yes. I for one would love to see us pull out ALL aid and support and let everyone fend for themselves. I would love to see america just say "Deal with your own problems, and dont call on us for anything ever again. If your people are poor and hungry, then tough shit".

[Bartholemu Smith]

Andy,
Many Canadians have poured their hearts out to americans in their time of need. So dont act like dont help you guys out.
The second quote is mine..and I never said its the US's fault or anything like that these people are poor. Its fact that they are poor. Are you going to tell me they are not? The US doesnt need to help anyone. Thats fine if they dont and I could careless. I know my country will help those and expect nothing in return.
never said they had a right to be mad at the US.. Thye have no right. I just stated this is a cause of some of their hate and ignorance. Just cause someone hates that doesnt mean ts called for. Stop pulling stuff from your ass...
[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 26, 2001).]

[Pranav Jaidka]

Originally posted by Andy Ceponis:
I am getting so F***ing sick of hearing shit like:

Andy
I think most people understand the frstrations that Americans are facing now. This was not a small thing to have happened.
However there have already been lengthy discussions on why the US would actually get involved in other countries affairs....being the only super power apparently comes at a cost and lets not get involved in the details .
As far as no other country helping the US are concerned ..im not sure what you mean with that . First off what help do you expect ???
1) If its Financial ?? I think thats foolish ....how can countries already in Debt themselves support one of the richest nations in the world .Countries which can help are already helping and this always has been the case..The UK ,France, Germany for Example.
2) Military ??? Im not sure about Vietnam but I dont think there has been any other military operation where the US was alone fighting to protect the world.
3) Political ?? let us know what support you want ??
4) Emotional??? ....i think events like these move people anywhere in the world. And anyone who does not feel part of tragedies like these is not human.
5) Finally about the most current events ....The US alone is not alone in this fight ..most of the world does support the stand the US has taken.
So im not sure what you mean when the US has always been in need of support and its not got it .
I think most of this feeling has come up after an email circulated around the NET by some 'Canadian' who encouraged his america brothers...I may be wrong or I may be right if most people are talking because of such mails on the net .This email expressed the same emotion you feel now. My cubicle partner read this and said.......'yeaaahhh we americans have been taking this for too long ..why dont people help us out ??'
I asked her the same things i ask you now ?? What do you say ??

[Andy Ceponis]

Originally posted by Faisal Dosani:
Andy,
Many Canadians have poured their hearts out to americans in their time of need. So dont act like dont help you guys out.
The second quote is mine..and I never said its the US's fault or anything like that these people are poor. Its fact that they are poor. Are you going to tell me they are not? The US doesnt need to help anyone. Thats fine if they dont and I could careless. I know my country will help those and expect nothing in return.
never said they had a right to be mad at the US.. Thye have no right. I just stated this is a cause of some of their hate and ignorance. Just cause someone hates that doesnt mean ts called for. Stop pulling stuff from your ass...
[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 26, 2001).]

First off, all Americans appreciate the kind words and thoughts others have given us. But Canada hasnt given any concrete help that i am aware of.
And America helps every country in the world(even canada) with financial support and various other relief efforts. No thanks is ever asked for and it is never given. But when we help someone and they do something like this to us, then thats where many people start to take offense. And im sure canada would react the same if it happened to them. So dont think your country is some sort of self righteous place.

[Andy Ceponis]

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Andy
I think most people understand the frstrations that Americans are facing now. This was not a small thing to have happened.
However there have already been lengthy discussions on why the US would actually get involved in other countries affairs....being the only super power apparently comes at a cost and lets not get involved in the details .
As far as no other country helping the US are concerned ..im not sure what you mean with that . First off what help do you expect ???
So im not sure what you mean when the US has always been in need of support and its not got it .

I get it. Whem America gives all of your countries money and financial aid and sends over relief workers and supplies to help out its ok. But when we back a certain country that we see as being in the right its not ok. Everyone is willing to take aid from us, but then we get shit on for it.
I never said that the US has always been in need, but i think that canadian email letter puts it the best.

[Pranav Jaidka]

Andy
Thats what im trying to explain....Is that Canadian Email responsible for this feeling or did you feel this from before ???
I dont feel that Americans have got shit from other countries and have not been helped .

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Andy Ceponis:
But Canada hasnt given any concrete help that i am aware of.

Not true. The RCMP has been working closely with the FBI and CIA. Many people from Canada have donated to relief funds through the Canadian Red Cross. Canadians allowed all US-bound overseas flights to land in their country so they could not pose a threat to the US. Canadian companies have shipped tools and supplies to the site of the disaster. Forensic experts have been sent. And on and on.

[Anonymous]

Other than The RCMP has been working closely with the FBI and CIA. Many people from Canada have donated to relief funds through the Canadian Red Cross. Canadians allowed all US-bound overseas flights to land in their country so they could not pose a threat to the US. Canadian companies have shipped tools and supplies to the site of the disaster. Forensic experts have been sent.
What have the Canadians ever done for us. (Monty Python Life of Brian)