Who is Aiding terrorism ?

[zulfiqar raza]

I see some people are using this as an opportunity to push their own agenda. Lets take a Look at India's hand in terrorism shall we?? This is taken from the Federation of American Scientists website.
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/india/raw/
Research and Analysis Wing [RAW]
The Cabinet Secretariat Research and Analysis Wing [RAW], India's most powerful intelligence agency, is India�s external intelligence agency. RAW has become an effective instrument of India's national power, and has assumed a significant role in formulating India's domestic and foreign policies. RAW has engaged in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighboring countries. RAW has enjoyed the backing of successive Indian governments in these efforts. Working directly under the Prime Minister, the structure, rank, pay and perks of the Research & Analysis Wing are kept secret from Parliament.
Current policy debates in India have generally failed to focus on the relative priority given by RAW to activities directed against India's neighbors versus attention to domestic affairs to safeguard India's security and territorial integrity. The RAW has had limited success in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south, and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country. Indian sources allege the CIA has penetrated freedom fighters in Kashmir and started activities in Kerala, Karnataka, and other places, along with conducting economic and industrial espionage activities in New Delhi.
In 1968 India established this special branch of its intelligence service specifically targeted on Pakistan. The formation of RAW was based on the belief that Pakistan was supplying weapons to Sikh terrorists, and providing shelter and training to the guerrillas in Pakistan. Pakistan has accused the Research and Analysis Wing of sponsoring sabotage in Punjab , where RAW is alleged to have supported the Seraiki movement, providing financial support to promote its activities in Pakistan and organizing an International Seraiki Conference in Delhi in November-December 1993. RAW has an extensive network of agents and anti-government elements within Pakistan, including dissident elements from various sectarian and ethnic groups of Sindh and Punjab. Published reports allege that as many as 35,000 RAW agents have entered Pakistan between 1983-93, with 12,000 are working in Sindh, 10000 in Punjab 8000 in North West Frontier Province and 5000 in Balochistan. As many as 40 terrorist training camps at Rajasthan, East Punjab, Held Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and other parts of India are run by the RAW's Special Service Bureau (SSB).
Throughout the Afghan War RAW was responsible for the planning and execution of terrorist activities in Pakistan to deter Pakistan from support of Afghan liberation movement against India's ally, the Soviet Union. The assistance provided to RAW by the KGB enabled RAW to arrange terrorist attacks in Pakistani cities throughout the Afghan War. The defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan did not end the role of RAW in Pakistan, with reports that suggest that India has established a training camp in the town of Qadian, in East Punjab, where non-Muslim Pakistanis are trained for terrorist activities. [b] Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has blamed India for funding the current upsurge of terrorism in Pakistan, and senior ministers have blamed the Research and Analysis Wing for the sectarian violence between Shias and Sunnis which has resulted in thousands of deaths every year.
Terrorist activities in Pakistan attributed to the clandestine activities of Indian and Afghan intelligence agencies include:
[b]
A car bomb explosion in Saddar area of Peshawar on 21 December 1995 caused the deaths of 37 persons and injured over 50 others.
An explosion at Shaukat Khanum Hospital on 14 April 1996, claimed the lives of seven persons and injured to over 34 others.
A bus traveling from Lahore to Sahiwal was blown up at Bhai Pheru on 28 April 1996, causing the deaths of 44 persons on the spot and injuring 30 others.
An explosion in a bus near the Sheikhupura hospital killed 9 persons and injured 29 others on 08 May 1996.
An explosion near Alam chowk, Gujranwala on 10 June 1996 killed 3 persons and injured 11 others.
A bomb exploded on a bus on GT Road near Kharian on 10 June 1996, killing 2 persons and injuring 10 others.
On 27 June 1996, an explosion opposite Madrassah Faizul Islam, Faizabad, Rawalpindi, killed 5 persons and injured over 50 others.
A bomb explosion in the Faisalabad railway station passenger lounge on 08 July 1996 killed 3 persons and injured 20 others.
RAW has responded to Pakistani arms and training for Muslim militants in the disputed region of Kashmir state. RAW allegedly executed a hijacking of an Indian Airliner to Lahore in 1971 which was attributed to the Kashmiris, to give a terrorist dimension to the Kashmiri national movement. However soon the extent of RAW's involvement was made public.


RAW has a long history of activity in Bangladesh, supporting both secular forces and the area's Hindu minority. The involvement of RAW in East Pakistan is said to date from the 1960s, when RAW promoted dissatisfaction against Pakistan in East Pakistan, including funding Mujibur Rahmanh's general election in 1970 and providing training and arming the Mukti Bahini.
During the course of its investigation the Jain Commission received testimony on the official Indian support to the various Sri Lankan Tamil armed groups in Tamil Nadu. From 1981, RAW and the Intelligence Bureau established a network of as many as 30 training bases for these groups in India. Centers were also established at the high-security military installation of Chakrata, near Dehra Dun, and in the Ramakrishna Puram area of New Delhi. This clandestine support to the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), some of whom were on the payroll of RAW, was later suspended. Starting in late 1986 the Research and Analysis Wing focused surveillance on the LTTE which was expanding ties with Tamil Nadu separatist groups. Rajiv Gandhi sought to establish good relations with the LTTE, even after the Indian Peace Keeping Force [IPKF] experience in Sri Lanka. But the Indian intelligence community failed to accurately assess the character of the LTTE and its orientation India and its political leaders. The LTTE assassination of Rajiv Gandhi was apparently motivated by fears of a possible re-induction of the Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF) in Sri Lanka and a crackdown on the LTTE network in Tamil Nadu.
The RAW and the Ministry of External Affairs are provided Rs 25 crore annually as "discretionary grants" for foreign influence operations. These funds have supported organisations fighting Sikh and Kashmiri separatists in the UK, Canada and the US. An extensive network of Indian operatives is controlled by the Indian Embassy in Washington DC. The Indian embassy's covert activities are reported to include the infitration of US long distance telephone carriers by Indian operatives, with access to all kinds of information, to r blackmail relatives of US residents living in India. In 1996 an Indian diplomat was implicated in a scandal over illegal funding of political candidates in the US. Under US law foreign nationals are prohibited from contributing to federal elections. The US District Court in Baltimore sentenced Lalit H Gadhia, a naturalised US citizen of Indian origin, to three months imprisonment. Gadhia had confessed that he worked as a conduit between the Indian Embassy and various Indian-American organisations for funnelling campaign contributions to influence US lawmakers. Over $46,000 from the Indian Embassy was distributed among 20 Congressional candidates. The source of the cash used by Gadhia was Devendra Singh, a RAW official assigned to the Indian Embassy in Washington. Illicit campaign money received in 1995 went to Democratic candidates including Sens. Charles S. Robb (D-Va.), Paul S. Sarbanes (D -Md.) and Reps. Benjamin L. Cardin (D-Md.) and Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.).

[Bartholemu Smith]

I dont mean to point a finger here but hasnt the US govt funded terrorists to over throw regimes in other conutries? Its all ironic if you ask me...
What happned was horrible, and no excuse can be made for such attacks. As a Canadian I feel for my neighbours.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Hey Zulfiqar, Hya doing buddy. Were you named after Benazir's daddy? Just curious
Thanks for the update on the excellent work done by India's RAW. How much is really true is always debatable, so let's not enter that debate.
What do you expect anyway? As recent as 1999, when the leaders were supposed to be having peace talks, Pakistani soldiers were sneaking into India's Batalik and Kargil region. Ofcourse, India eventually kicked their butt, and reclaimed the regions. This was just the most recent incident, simply strengthening India's mistrust of Pakistan. Given that, India's RAW is simply doing it's job
And before you start feigning to be a hapless victim of terrorism, thanks to that site you provided, here's some dirt I dug up about Pakistan's ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence):
> Drug money is used by ISI to finance not only the Afghanistan war, but also the proxy war against India in Punjab and Kashmir.
> The Joint Intelligence Bureau (JIB), responsible for political intelligence, was the most powerful component of the organisation during the late 1980s. The JIB consists of three subsections, with one subsection devoted to operations against India.
> Joint Intelligence / North (JIN) is responsible for Jammu and Kashmir operations, including infiltration, exfilteration, propaganda and other clandestine operations.
> The ISI supplies weapons, training, advice and planning assistance to terrorists in Punjab and Kashmir, as well as the separatist movements in the Northeast frontier areas of India.
> ISI is currently engaged in covertly supporting the Kashmiri Mujahideen in their fight against the Indian authorities in Kashmir.
And much more... You can read the rest here: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi/index.html
So there you go sonny. Stop whining... some of my American friends refer to Pakistanis as Wacky Pakis - please don't prove that to me

[This message has been edited by Nanhesru Ningyake (edited September 21, 2001).]

[zulfiqar raza]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:

. some of my American friends refer to Pakistanis as Wacky Pakis - please don't prove that to me

I request the moderators to remove posts that try to insult nationalities. Just because he has referred to 'American friends' referring with such terms does not make it legit. I can also say my American friends refer to Indian as XXXXX .. this would also be construed as abusive.
Thank you

[Sahir Shibley]

RAW is a counter intelligence organisation, it's scope of operations is purely defensive. Its roughly equivalent to Britain's MI5 , we do not have an equivalent of MI6 or CIA. That means we do not have an intelligence organisation authorised to carry out covert operations against foreign governments. Some counter-intelligence operations may give the appearance of offensive tactics as there are grey areas between intelligence and counter-intelligence operations and it it is not always possible to define a clear boundary and say "the scope of your mandate ends here, you may not go beyond this line and if I catch you doing so I will kick your ass for exceeding your authority" .

We do not have an offensive intelligence organ, our government has no intentions to set up such an intelligence wing in the near future, it may sound suicidal, but we have always managed without one and will continue to do so as we believe in peaceful co-existence with all nations of the world.

[This message has been edited by Sahir Shibley (edited September 22, 2001).]

[Cindy Glass]

zulfiqar,
In America calling someone wacky is not considered abusive. It is like saying someone is loony or slightly funny acting - we call ourselves wacky on a regular basis without intending it as a great insult - just a humorous notation.

[zulfiqar raza]

Cindy, You probably don't know however the term 'Pakis' is considered a racist slur in Britain. Just like calling Indian 'dot-heads' or using the 'N' word for blacks in American.
In addition he did not call me personally 'wacky'. Instead he chose to call all Pakistanis by that term. That too he did by referring to 'his American friends'. Like firing a racist slur over the shoulder of Americans. That would be like me saying that all my American friends refer to Indians as dot-heads. Just a note to the moderators if they wish to take notice.
thanks

[This message has been edited by zulfiqar raza (edited September 22, 2001).]

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Dude, I was just being facetious - no insult intended.
But then, what's a couple more insults if Pakistan can get it's $37 billion debt waived, right? They have already betrayed their own brethren, and surely Musharraf won't mind stooping to kiss Bush's ass if only his absurd demands could be met. Don't you think?
I guess when the skin is RAW, even a little salt hurts

[This message has been edited by Nanhesru Ningyake (edited September 22, 2001).]

[Anonymous]

Musharraf and Co. has shown exemplary opportunism. Can you believe this, they were the ones who supported Taliban first. They were the ones sponcering terrorism all over the place and they lost no time in ditching Taliban and it's cause as soon as they sensed that there is "dough" in being with the US instead of Taliban. I would truely admire him if he pulls this one off with US as well as with Pak. public.
US and Co. are anyway smart guys. They don't care the role pak is openly playing in sponcering terrorism in Kashmir. All they need is Bin Laden and as Pak.'s location is very useful to them, they coersed Pak. to help them. Once they get Bin Laden, I am sure they'll dump Pak. as quickly as Pak. dumped Taliban. I believe so because after the cold war, Pak. had basically become a drain on US's resources. It didn't solve any of US's purposes and needed a lot of "aid" to sustain itself. On the other hand, US sees big Indian market and so it was inclining towards India (and China too) recently. It wouldn't be surprising if after this Bin Laden stuff is over, they again start talking to India.
It is interesting to see Taliban's position now. Earlier, with Pak's help they were busy screwing hapless Afghan public. Well, Pak dumped them fast and now UAE ( A very rich gulf country) also withdrew it's support.
I can now see Bush saying, "...we'll smoke them out...".
And about India supporting terrorism....I would say we are learning from our mistakes. After the LTTE episode, Indian leaders have become wiser. The leaders as well the public now understands that they better take care of the home front first and then worry about anybody else.
Pak. is still acting bone head on this one. And till it understands that there is no point is wasting their country's resources on Kashmir, there is no hope for them.

[Anonymous]

From zulfigar raza:
"I see some people are using this as an opportunity to push their own agenda. "
WOW talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What have you been doing.

[Pranav Jaidka]

Originally posted by zulfiqar raza:
I request the moderators to remove posts that try to insult nationalities. Just because he has referred to 'American friends' referring with such terms does not make it legit. I can also say my American friends refer to Indian as XXXXX .. this would also be construed as abusive.
Thank you

Moderators .....this person comments that insulting nationalities is bad .He does not realise that he has started this thread by posting things against India .
Zulfiqar I think you seem to be living to fight .What do you have against India buddy ??? You are against India in everything. I think its foolish .

35000 RAW agents in your country ??? ARe you nuts ??? You think theyve gone to Pakistan to marry or enjoy Fruits ??? Boss 35000 people could have literally wiped off your country from the face of this Earth.......as you can see it only takes 19 to shake this planet.
All those terrorist Activities are linked to 'Explosions' ...ha ha ha...The Raw is more clever than that buddy ...they will not keep exploding buses in Pakistan.They wont gain what they want..ha ha ha
You named 7-8 incidents in your posts ....all Explosions...come on ...at your age you should be talking of intelligent things....
AS far as terrorism goes ...I think it is Pakistan that has been blamed for almost every activity in the Subcontinent ....Why are you so quiet on your countries Role..
If youre ready to talk about your countries role ...in Punjab,Kashmir, Mumbai blasts...then LEts talk......otherwise please refrain from posting information like this because it is then not a fair discussion.
Hope you understand what im trying to say .....
Lots of luck
And cool it buddy ....we Indians are Friends....
PRanav