overthrowing the criminal regimes

[Anuj Anand]

Yesterday there was a documentary on CNN about how Taliban and its radical philosophy
Acoording to that
1) No woman above the age of 12 is allowed to work
2) People are executed in front of a large gathering in public grounds by so called moral police
It still seems strange that some rogue Arabic states support this type of idiotic regime. Is it not time for USA to help the poeple of the country in overthrowing such regimes like Taliban,iraq,Libya etc

[Anonymous]

Why just the USA. What is wrong with the rest of the world that they can't fight these issues as well. Let the USA spend their money and blood to fight the worlds wrongs. Isn't that what many say is the "reason" for these events.

[Angela Poynton]

I don't think it's anybody's responsibility to do such things other than the people themeselves. Don't forget that it is largely thought that ONE of the reasons the US is hated so much by these people is that they interfere in other country's affairs.

[Anuj Anand]

But USA with its might and power can help the poor people........I am saying this because these people get killed when one of hteir foolish leader make a mistake .......You have to encorage democratic behaviour in people.

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Anuj Anand:
Yesterday there was a documentary on CNN about how Taliban and its radical philosophy
Acoording to that
1) No woman above the age of 12 is allowed to work
2) People are executed in front of a large gathering in public grounds by so called moral police
It still seems strange that some rogue Arabic states support this type of idiotic regime. Is it not time for USA to help the poeple of the country in overthrowing such regimes like Taliban,iraq,Libya etc

Actually it looks like the US along with the Russians and probably others are going to be supplying aid and arms to the Northern Alliance so that they may better fight the Taliban.

[Anonymous]

Anuj Anand,
I am just pointing out that the US is always in a no win situation. We help and someone claims we are meddling. We don't and we are heartless and allowed people to die needlessly.

[Jamie Robertson]

I saw a documentary on this(large gatherings) also. It showed one of these gatherings in a stadium (looked like a football game) except in the middle of the field were the 3 people to be executed by the moral police. The first woman had someone walk up to him, put a gun to the from of her forehead, then shot her. The second man had someone walk up to him, drew a knife and slit his throat. The third man was hung from the soccer net posts. They were all left in the place they were executed for a while. It was gut wrenchingly sick. I was disgusted. It was videotaped from a woman who concealed the camera in her clothes.
These people were executed for petty reasons(can't remember the actual reasons). I believe the woman was out in public without her husband or something.
Sick.
Jamie

[This message has been edited by Jamie Robertson (edited September 25, 2001).]

[Cindy Glass]

Yeah, I saw this on CNN in a documentary "Behind the veil" Monday night at 7PM EST.

[Pranav Jaidka]

I saw this one too...i think its called 'Behind the Veil'
There were some gruesome scenes .One which really made me shiver was when she showed a mans skull who had been scalped by the Taliban. Only his skull showed.
Also there was another scene where a lady bought dried bread with fungus on it to feed 7 children at her home. She ground it in a pestle and the children had the bread crubs.
This is a shame for people responsible for this condition .

[Jamie Robertson]

The taliban doesn't "support" or "harbour" terrorists, they are terrorists. Terrorizing their own nation. Anyone that thinks differently did not see this documentary. It wasn't "glamourized for TV", or some opinionated reporter giving his/her 2 cents on the situation, just graphic realism from the raw footage. I have seen Dictator's run a country to better moral standards than this Taliban.
Jamie

[This message has been edited by Jamie Robertson (edited September 25, 2001).]

[Anuj Anand]

Yes everybody is talking about this documentary ...What i am saying is that regimes like Taliban neeed to be overthrown .But people are oppressed and it is hard for them..precisely for this reason i advocate superpower intervention........

[Anonymous]

Anuj,
If you have been reading all of these threads, you will see plenty saying the US sticks its nose where it doesn't belong. Others like yourself saying we need to get involved. Then those like ole xyz xyz who would say both depending on how he/she felt at the time. That is why any action we take have to satisfy certain criteria. National Interest being 1st and foremost. Humanitarian is the only other. The last only selectively. We can't feed the world and we can't prevent every country from brutalizing its people.

[Shama Khan]

Originally posted by Anuj Anand:
Yes everybody is talking about this documentary ...What i am saying is that regimes like Taliban neeed to be overthrown .But people are oppressed and it is hard for them..precisely for this reason i advocate superpower intervention........

I saw the documentary too but knowing the partiality of the media, I am sorry to report while it may be true, all the story did not get told. I have read very positive accounts of the regime as well as negatives. It's kind of sad but we never get the full story.
It is somewhat comparable to the movies that are made in New York showing how tough it is to survive in this city.
The coverage that media does even of places like India or Pakistan is always of the villages or city slums. So most of the people I meet think that I am from a village.
I don't mean to downplay the conditions in Afghanistan - they are very bad especially due to the fact that these Taliban are practicing their pre-Islamic cultures in the name of Islam.
But we should keep an openmind as we see only what the cameraman/woman wants to show us.
Too bad you guys never got the footage of what happened in Bosnia or Iraq. I guess nobody cared! I guess it wasn't interesting enough to make it to PrimeTime TV.
But I came here to answer the question of who is going to overthrow these oppressive regimes.
My answer is another question - "Who will be left then to be exploited? "

[Pranav Jaidka]

Originally posted by Shama Khan:

I have read very positive accounts of the regime as well as negatives.

What was the positive reports about Taliban you heard Shama ???

The coverage that media does even of places like India or Pakistan is always of the villages or city slums. So most of the people I meet think that I am from a village.

I agree with this one ..I have a colleague in office who seems to think there are a lot of Jungles in India ...I dont deny that ...but the problem is thats all she thinks there is .
Otherwise if its not jungles ...its either snake charmers or Elephants ,or fire walkers ,or kings and queens.
The Western media is always about Indiana Jone movies where we have blood drinking people and eyeballs as desserts....I never have seen anythign like this or even heard of this in any of our countries .

[Anonymous]

Was this shown on CNN also? Christian Nuns being forced to drink by Hindus in India? How about the US get rid of this criminal regime.
US State Department
Human Rights Watch
Report 2000
(INDIA)
Excerpts
PATTERN OF VIOLENCE
CHRISTINANITY UNDER FIRE
More incidents of violence against India's Christian community were recorded during the past two years than in all the years since independence. Anti-Christian violence in the state of Gujarat reached its peak during Christmas week 1998 when a local extremist Hindu group obtained permission to hold a rally on December 25 in Ahwa town in the state's southeastern Dangs district. Over four thousand people participated in the rally, shouting anti-Christian slogans while the police stood by and watched. After the rally, Hindu groups began to attack Christianplaces of worship, schools run by missionaries, and shops owned by Christians and Muslims.
Between December 25, 1998, and January 3, 1999, churches and prayer halls were damaged, attacked, or burned down in at least twenty-five different villages in the state. Scores of individuals were physically assaulted, and in some cases tied up, beaten and robbed of their belongings while angry mobs invaded and damaged their homes. Thousands of Christian tribals in the region were also forced to undergo conversions to Hinduism.
On January 23 in Keonjhar district, Orissa, a mob of Hindu extremists burned to death Australian missionary Graham Stewart Staines and his two sons as they slept in their car. Staines had worked for over thirty years in a leper colony in the state and was accused of conducting mass conversions to Christianity. In August a government-appointed judicial commission accused Bajrang Dal activist and BJP member Dara Singh of leading the charge in the killings. The commission's report also found that Staines had not been involved in any conversions, but it fell short of accusing the Bajrang Dal, insisting that Singh acted alone. Opposition parties labeled the report a "whitewash," while allies of the BJP by and large welcomed the findings. On September 20, a Catholic nun in Bihar was abducted by two men, stripped, and forced to drink their urine.
HATRED FOR MUSLIMS
The Shiv Sena, a Hindu party which heads the state government of Maharashtra in coalition with the BJP, also engaged in disruptive practices and hate campaigns against Muslims and Christians throughout the year. In December 1998, the award-winning film Fire , by director Deepa Mehta, was recalled from theaters after Shiv Sena activists vandalized at least fifteen cinemas where it was playing. Sena members objected to the film's depiction of a lesbian relationship between two Hindu sisters-in-law, adding that had the women been Muslim there would be no objection.
In January 1999, when Pakistan's cricket team was set to travel to India for a series of test matches, members of the Shiv Sena dug up the pitch at a New Delhi stadium that was to host the first match and ransacked the headquarters of the Board of Control for Cricket in Bombay. In June, the Shiv Sena launched a series of attacks against Christian mission-run kindergarten schools alleging that they were not admitting the children of Sena activists. On June 26 suspected Sena members vandalized the Sacred Heart school in Worli, Bombay.
On August 26 Staines' killer Dara Singh struck again, when he led an angry mob to attack the garment shop of Sheikh Rehman, a Muslim trader in Orissa's Mayurbhanj district. In the presence of four hundred eyewitnesses and in broad daylight, Rehman's arms were chopped and his body was set on fire. Singh continued to evade arrest despite his numerous television appearances in the months following the Staines murder.
ABUSIVE LAWS
Police in Andhra Pradesh continued to summarily execute suspected Naxalites in so-called "encounter killings."
The Armed Forces Special Powers Act remained in effect in the northeast, but it was not the only abusive law on the books. Due to the spurious backdating of violations, detentions under the notorious Terrorist and Disruptive Practices (Prevention) Act (TADA) continued for offenses allegedly committed before the law lapsed in 1995. In Karnataka, for example, fifty-two people remained in pre-trial detention in Mysore Central Prison for periods ranging from four to six years.
Persecution of Human Rights Activists
On February 11, members of Parivartan, an NGO working with Dalits and landless agricultural laborers in Gujarat, were attacked in Padra village. Sixteen Dalit women, who had come to attend a tailoring course organized by Parivartan's women's co-operative, were among those physically assaulted by local strongmen. Police officials agreed to register a complaint only after the Home Ministry's intervention. In 1998, the Hindu group VHP had issued a press statement claiming that Parivartan was trying to convert Gujarat's entire tribal belt to Christianity-a charge that the NGO has denied.
In July, political parties in favor of the building of the Sardar Sarovar dam across the Narmada river in western India burned copies of the book, The Greater Common Good by novelist-activist Arundhati Roy. Roy, whose book discussed the social and environmental costs of the Narmada project, including large-scale population displacement, was part of a larger people's movement against India's big dam projects. Facing threats from the youth wings of the BJP and the Congress party, bookstores in Ahmedabad city, Gujarat, also began to pull the book from their shelves.
The Role of the International Community
Tensions between India and Pakistan dominated India's international relations during the year. The international community failed to use the opportunity to press India to curb human rights abuses in the state.
United Nations
While Pakistan demanded U.N. mediation in the Kashmir dispute, the Indian prime minister rejected an offer by the U.N. secretary-general to send an envoy. In a report issued in January, the U.N. special rapporteur on torture commented on India's abysmal record on torture and detentions, especially in Jammu and Kashmir, and noted with regret the government's continued refusal to extend him an invitation to conduct investigations in the country.
European Union
The European Union (E.U.) joined the international community in expressing concern over the escalation of fighting in Kashmir. . In a February resolution the European Parliament expressed deep shock over the persecution of Christians in India by extremist groups and called on the Indian government to put in place effective measures for protection of religious minorities and to bring to justice those responsible for the killing of Australian missionary Graham Staines.
The European Parlaiment also called on the E.U. and the European Commission to ensure that human rights clauses in treaty agreements with India be rigorously implemented. A legally binding partnership and development agreement between India and the E.U. concluded in 1994 contains such a human rights conditionality clause. In March, the European Parlaiment expressed support for the European Commission's efforts to enhance relations with India but said improved relations should depend in part on India's nuclear disarmament. The European Parlaiment also urged India to foster tolerance and protect freedom of religion; to ratify the torture convention; and to impose a moratorium on executions and step up efforts to abolish the death penalty.
United States
In September the U.S. Department of State released its first annual report under the 1998 International Religious Freedom Act, detailing attacks on religious minorities throughout India. Responding to reports that U.S. Ambassador Robert Seiple wished to visit the country to discuss religious rights, the Indian government defended its ability to guarantee constitutionally mandated religious freedoms and rejected any "intrusive exercise" into its internal affairs.

[Pranav Jaidka]

Originally posted by Great India:
Was this shown on CNN also? Christian Nuns being forced to drink by Hindus in India? ..............and on ...and on ...and on ...and on ...and on ...and on.....and on....and on.....and on.....and on.......

Dear Mr Great India Please refrain from posting things which are crimes in India. In fact not only in India ..I think everywhere . your post also mentions that the police is taking action .So wheres the problem ???
And please post things under your real name ...

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Dear Mr Great India Please refrain from posting things which are crimes in India. In fact not only in India ..I think everywhere . your post also mentions that the police is taking action .So wheres the problem ???
And please post things under your real name ...

When the Hunumans (Hindus) on this forum start posting under their real name I will also.

[Pranav Jaidka]

Originally posted by Great India:
When the Hunumans (Hindus) on this forum start posting under their real name I will also.

Im begining to suspect that you dont even know a single correct thing about India.... you only believe what your media tells you ...which is all Horse Poo.
Secondly whats Hunumans ??? I dont think any Indian has heard of this...ha ha ha ha..in case youre talking of Hindus ..then you need to study some books to get your facts (and spellings) right.
And Thirdly....Before you post things against our GREAT country...at least think of one thing....AT LEAST WE MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS
AS FAR AS POSTING IN YOUR REAL NAME IS CONCERNED I DONT THINK YOU CAN EVER DO THAT.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
you only believe what your media tells you ...which is all Horse Poo.

AS FAR AS POSTING IN YOUR REAL NAME IS CONCERNED I DONT THINK YOU CAN EVER DO THAT.[/B]

US Human Rights Watch report 2000
India
On August 26 Staines' killer Dara Singh struck again, when he led an angry mob to attack the garment shop of Sheikh Rehman, a Muslim trader in Orissa's Mayurbhanj district. In the presence of four hundred eyewitnesses and in broad daylight, Rehman's arms were chopped and his body was set on fire. Singh continued to evade arrest despite his numerous television appearances in the months following the Staines murder.

When the Hanumans (Hindus) on this board start posting in their real name, I will also.

[Great Pakistan]

[Sources: BBC News, 13 September 2000, 21 September 2000]
"Masked gunmen ambushed a school van, killing five Sunni Muslims and wounding three others in the latest round of religious violence in Karachi, Pakistan, police said. The attack led to violent protests, with hundreds of Sunni Muslim students pelting police with stones, setting cars on fire and vandalizing billboards." [Reuters and Associated Press, 28 January 2001]
"A prominent Pakistani religious leader has been shot dead in Karachi... Dr Qureshi, is a former leader of Jamaat-e Islami (Party of Islam) and a former member of the Sindh provincial assembly. In recent years, Dr Qureshi had supported calls for Islamic law to be introduced in Pakistan." [BBC News, 18 December 2000]
"A leader of a small Pakistani Shiite Muslim group has been shot dead in the southern city of Karachi. Police say Sardar Hussain Jafri, who headed the little-known group called the Voice of Shia, died on the spot. A person who identified himself as Riaz Basra, leader of the extremist anti-Shiite group, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, phoned the BBC shortly after the attack to claim responsibility." [BBC News, 15 May 2000]
"Paramilitary rangers and police in Sindh province launched a crackdown against activists and leaders of the JSQM and the MQM on February 19, 2000 after the two parties jointly called for a strike against the government's dismissal of 400 Pakistan Steel Mills workers. Paramilitary troops and rangers responded with search and siege operations in the cities and a search for JSQM activists in rural areas of Sindh, resulting in the arrest of about forty activists." [Human Rights Watch 2001 World Report]

[Great Pakistan]

www.pakistanchristianpost.com
Minorities of Pakistan in general and the Christians in particular are shocked to know that a Division Bench of Lahore High Court Multan Bench comprising Mr. Justice Khawaja Mohammad sharif and Mr.justice Naeem Ullah Khan Sherwani has up held the judgment of District and Sessions Court Sahiwal and confirmed the death sentence of Ayub Masih in the Blasphemy Case. More...




14-year-old Naira Nadia kidnapped, raped and forced to marry a 40 years Muslim.Police reluctant to arrest accused Muslims.

Thousands of Christian women in Pakistan are raped and forcibly married by Muslims every year. In some cases of kidnapping, the families of these Christians, due to social and cultural values, hesitate to disclose and bring in public and prefer to keep silent due to fear of life from powerful Muslim kidnappers. The rape cases of Christian women occur mostly with nurses, housemaids and metropolitan workers. The incidents with minors and school girls are also witnessed and the recently, Nadia 14-year-old school girl who often shared the Gospel with classmates at her school but the father of one of her female classmates, Maqsood Ahmed, member of an Islamic extremist group, On the night of February 11, 2001, with several other militant Muslims broke in to Naira's home in Mariam-a-bad, Shiekhupura district, and kidnapped her on revealing message of Christianity and brutally raped Nadia. In spite of pleas by Naira's family to locate their daughter, local police refused to lodge FIR as police have been receiving bribes from Maqsood Ahmed and his family to hush up the incident. When some human rights groups stepped in to help Naira's family to register her rape and abduction with higher police authorities on February 15, 2001. More...

Blasphemy victim Saleem and Rasheed Masih,s Sister in law raped.

* The rapist are still at large and police officials under pressure of Muslims of the area, ignore to arrest the culprits, nominated in FIR of the incident of June 25,when Muslims in Sabu Mahaal village robbed the home of Christian Hamid Masih and raped his wife. Hamid is the brother of Saleem and Rasheed Masih, two men convicted of blasphemy in May 29,1999, Maqsood Ahmed, a Muslim ice-cream vendor, refused to sell ice cream to Christians Saleem and Rasheed Masih. Soon thereafter, the vendor accused the two Christians of insulting Islam. Police then arrested them on blasphemy charges. On May 11,2000, Rasheed and Saleem Masih were sentenced to 35 years in prison under blasphemy Law 295 (c) after supposedly uttering "bad remarks" against Islam and Mohammed.Hamid has been caring for his brothers' wives and children. However, the family is now in fear for their lives. More...

Muslim Christian Dialogue Forum. Investigation Report by Post Team.

MCDF fail to raise voice on arrests of Christians under Blasphemy law
Quadri + Azriah forum, Baseless and un natural.
PAT on minority rights and Nejran delegates.
Jamat Islami, takes non-Muslims as "Dhimmis" (The Covenanted).
PPP on "Islam is our faith" and minorities a' sacred trust'.
Pakistan Christian Congress and Public seminars on 'christian Muslim dialogue'.
More...

More News



Catholic councilors win 96% seats in Local Body Elections under Separate electorate system. Bishop Joseph Coutts still demands Joint electorate in Seminar.

The sub standard policy of Catholic Church in Pakistan can be viewed in the light of this seminar, where demand of Joint electorate is repeated again, when all the Catholic Church based NGO, s condemned the separate electorate boycott and demand joint electorate. In recent local body elections, like all the previous national general elections, the Catholic Church member, candidates have participating in separate election system. It's very important for such a conservative religious organization to insist their members to contest elections with in system they deplore on national and international forums, taking it as root cause of apartheid in different religious communities in Pakistan. The most surprising factor of the said seminar was, that Catholic Church members, elected councilors with the support of catholic vote bank were also present in that seminar to condemn the separate electorate by which they were elected. Below appear the news items of that seminar. More...

J. Salik now on Lottery. Is he serious to his commitments?

Ex federal minister of population planning of pakistan in PPP government, have announced to commit suicide opposite offices of world bank, Washington on 26 feb, 2002, if his $ lottery scheme in not granted by bank, to raise funds to pay loans of under developing countries. At the same time Tehreek e Insaf, chief, Imran Khan has also announced his programmes to pay of the World Bank loans 0f Pakistan, referring the loan settlement of Jews and Indonesia through bank settlements, which carry some grounds, but J. salik has presented again a theory of ' juggler' covering the under developing countries. More...

Kashmiri Muslims, A religious Minority in India, on Agenda of Vajpayee and Mushraf Summit. What About Christian and Ahmadi Religious Minorities in India and Pakistan.

It is a fact that Kashmir is not on top of the agenda of recent summit of prime minister of India and president of Pakistan. The Muslims living in Kashmir, a minority in India and majority in Kashmir, having Islam as common religion between Pakistani and Kashmir Muslims is the major concern of Pakistan. The strategic position of Kashmir is not so important comparing to the Balouchistan and NWFP, but the Muslims of Balouchistan and Muslims of NWFP fail to attract the attention of general Muslims in pakistan as well as the government of pakistan because the disputed part of greater Balouchistan is occupied by neighbor Islamic state Iran and Pakhtoonistan part is occupied by the Muslim state of Afghanistan. More...

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J Salik and his book.

By Dr. Stephen Gill (Canada) Around the city after blackening his face; another time, he carried a coffin with him. He is known for crucifying himself on the cross, and calling a press conferences while bleeding from his head. He is also known for walking barefoot to attend sessions of the parliament. Once, he publicly burnt all his furniture, another time his costly three-piece suits to wear the jute clothes for years. More...

Blasphemy Laws And Minorities.

By Nazir S Bhatti.
Until 1980 the penal code enforced in Pakistan was in its original form of 1860. It was the British government that established these laws in the subcontinent being British colony. Penal Code section 295 provided punishment for those who destroyed, damaged or defiled any place of worship or emblem of faith, with the intention to insult the religion of any class of persons or the knowledge that any class of persons is likely to consider such destruction as an insult. Two years imprisonment was the maximum punishment for some one accused of such an offence. More...

The Philosophy of The Boycott of Local Bodies Elections by Professor Salamat Akhtar

Some Christians touts of Intelligence Agencies informed DC Rawalpindi/District Returning Officer regarding my boycott compaign to damage my position. He deputed an Inspector of Special Branch to know the factual position. I told him that DC need not worry because the Government has prepared an Army of Drug Addicts, Wine Sellers and Touts of Agencies to fail our boycott. My briefing to him is produced here as an article. More...

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[Great Pakistan]

Sheraz Mashi killed on dialogue of religion by Muslims.


Lahore.

A 23-year-old Bible college student has been killed by militant Muslims for proselytizing, according to Voice of the Martyrs (VoM). On Aug. 2, the student, identified only as Sheraz, went to work in a factory in Lahore and never came home. According to a Christian co-worker, Sheraz got into an argument with some militant Muslims, and was reportedly kidnapped.


On Aug. 9, Sheraz' body was found in front of the gate of his church with a letter attached that read, "Stop Preaching to Muslims," VoM reported. The dean of his Bible college asked for prayer for Sheraz' family, which includes his parents and three sisters.

Meanwhile, Christians Pervez Masih and Ayub Masih are awaiting their court appearances on the capital offense of blasphemy against the prophet Mohammed. The two, who are not related, are to be tried in separate cases. VoM said the men have been tortured while in jail, and pressured to convert to Islam.

[Shama Khan]

Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
What was the positive reports about Taliban you heard Shama ???

Sorry for late reply. The flu bug got me. I apologize for misleading from my earlier comment as there's nothing positive I can find in them today as they are harboring a suspected terrorist. But when they started out, they were going to establish a pure islamic state but it seems they got snared by their own biases and cultural beliefs.
Shama