Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
What INSECURE "god" needs adoration at least 5 times a day? Or every Sunday? Or every Saturday!
How insecure can be a being be that requires so much frequent 'adoration'?
"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
Because God has given us free will. If God wanted automatons then He could have created mindless drones. He wants us to use the gifts He has given us in a wise way.Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
But what does "god" do for the betterment of life on the Planet? Why doesn't it show up once and for all in a big cloud on an otherwise clear day and demonstrate its power over Creation in front of us, dwellers of the planet, so that THERE BE NO DOUBT that we are under its control.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
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Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
Jane Griscti
SCJP, Co-author Mike Meyers' Java 2 Certification Passport
On the other hand, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism and these ancient so-called religions (which for me they are not but instead true methodologies to get in contact with the SELF) .
Where's the proof? Or even suggestive evidence?
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
I don't care what you think of what I said, but what I said was a compliment to your religion
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
I am not a Hindu.
Can you read English?
So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
So are you categorically stating that your religion advocates violence?
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
"JavaRanch, where the deer and the Certified play" - David O'Meara
Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Pranav:
I am only responding because you addressed me (are you sure you didn't mean [b]Tony Curtis, Ha ha!?)
On the other hand, Taoism, Hinduism, Confucianism and these ancient so-called religions (which for me they are not but instead true methodologies to get in contact with the SELF) do not proclaim "kill the infidel".
[/B]
You probably dont know much about Hinduism and you still manage to extract the best thing it teaches us. Non Violence .Probably many hindus do not realise this themselves. No offense meant to other posters who would disagree with this opinion of mine
Originally posted by The Point:
Pranav, Hindu belief is not Non-Violence and it is Gandhi who preached it. There are many things you can draw from religion. It all depends on your perception.
For example:
In Bagahvad Geeta Krishna(God) brainwashes Arjuna
to wage War and kill people. And God says it is HE who
does everything and Arjuna was just used as a MEDUIM.
I have seen a movie recently in which a person kills people by saying the above things in Geeta.
The point is if you want to preach Violence you can preach it by using Hindusim(religion)too. But luckily no one did it.
And MOVIES .,..........thats the worst thing one should pick out examples from .Cmon.
but youre missing it. Do you know why Arjuna was asked to fight ?? It was because it was his duty at that time and he was getting doubts.
I guess what i am trying to say is that as a hindu i am not interested in using violence to spread my religion because my religion does not teach me to do this.
The point is if you want to preach Violence you can preach it by using Hindusim(religion)too. But luckily no one did it.
Anyway hinduism does not have anything to do with this isolated incident and there are lots of other things to be looked into what happened for this.
Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Do you know why Arjuna was asked to fight ?? It was because it was his duty at that time and he was getting doubts.
This is in no way to be taken as spreading violence end encouraging people to kill.
Shama
So, please DO NOT compare Hinduism and Islam/Christ. Ideas and philosophy of Hinduism is far beyond the "do-this-or-I'll-kill-you" theory/basis of Islam/christianity.
Originally posted by Aman Chain:
Voilence/war/jiahd in Hindu and Islam/Chritianity are totaly un-similar.
Never in the history has Hinduism (or even Orthodox Hindus) tried to forcibly convert anybody. On the other hand both Islam and Christ. support that. Now, whether these religions really instigated followers to forcibly convert other people OR the followers themselves "assumed" that it is their duty to convert non-followers, I am not sure.
But the fact is that, India (and nearly all other places) were at the receiving end of this "crusade". And so, atleast this is for sure that these religions did not "stop" the followers from commiting such barbaric crimes on non-believers.
So, please DO NOT compare Hinduism and Islam/Christ. Ideas and philosophy of Hinduism is far beyond the "do-this-or-I'll-kill-you" theory/basis of Islam/christianity.
Hindus! Beware! The Christian Crusades are still going on today in this
present day and age and India's Hindus are the targets. These
crusaders are not attacking with the sword this time but are using even more powerful tools - food, clothing, medicine, money and shelter to lure poor, uneducated Hindus to Christianity.
, a bipartisan group of 21 members of the U.S. Congress wrote to President Clinton asking him to declare India a terrorist state because of its oppression of Christians and religious minorities. They took note of the pattern of violence against Christians that has been
going on since Christmas 1998.
Hindu fundamentalists chanting "Victory to Hannuman," a Hindu god, burned missionary Graham Staines and his two sons, ages 8 and 10, to death while they slept in their Jeep. The Indian government, led by the Hindu nationalist BJP, [had not at the time] taken action to punish the persons responsible for any of these atrocities.
Activists belonging to militant Hindu extremist groups such as the Bajrang Dal and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council, VHP) were often blamed for the violence. Both groups are members of the sangh parivar, an umbrella Hindu organization that boasts the ruling BJP as its political wing. These Hindu groups blamed the violence on popular anger over Christian efforts to convert Hindus. While government officials at the state and central level condemned the attacks, they did little to prosecute those responsible.
a state government order, believed to be aimed at limiting the activities of Christian missionaries, requiring a police inquiry before anyone adopted a new faith.
We in the US feel that everybody is free to chose their own religion so we do not see religious groups attempting conversion as a problem, since people are able to make up their own mind as to what religion makes sense for them.
That is absolutely fine when the people are literate, when people can understand the issues involved, when people are not "dependent" on any aid.
But it is NOT FINE when the people are poor and do not have any idea about what is good or bad. And more so, when people do not have the POWER to resist. And that's what I am talking about.
Is it ok in US to fool an ignorant and take undue advantage? I believe not. But that's exactly what these missionaries are doing in India.
Before independence their modus operandi was "force". It is very much well known how the portugese forcibaly converted nearly the whole state of Goa.
After independence, their modus operadi is "fraud". Here is an exapmple of what happens in Kerala:
A poor fisherman looses his boat. Local pope(father or whatever) contacts him and advises him to pray in the church and put his request to Jesus. Obviously, when there is no other way to survive, he does as advised and the next day receives a free gift of 1000/- or so for the boat. Wow...jesus is so great....there he becomes a christian.
What is this? Is this valid in US? Of course, this won't happen in US because people are educated. They are not dying of hunger. They have a lot of options.
The examples that you've given about the murder of Graham Stains etc. is just a "long delayed" reaction of local hindus. They never went to other countries to force Hinduism. In fact, there are other religions in India too. How come nobody kills Buddhist or Jainist or Sikhs? They also practice and preach their religions. But unlike Islam and Christ. they DID NOT and DO NOT force any body to do so. That is not their "belief". That is not "approved" by these religions.
Even if you collect all such examples they are miniscules as compared to similar crimes done by Muslims and Christians.
Do I support them? [b]NO. But I cannot blame them either.
[/B]
Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Name one (please dont name the US because people from all over the world may be present here but they have to wait for generations to get a recognition as one of your own.).
Im talking of a land where people are born as citizens free to practice any religion they like .The only country that i can name is India itself.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I'm not sure what you are talking about. First, anybody who has their citizenshitp is "one of our own", regardless of how long they have been here. Secondly, we are free to choose any religion we like, and convert as we see fit. So yes, people born here are free to practice any religion they like? Are you saying that's not true, or am I unclear?
Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Guess we Indian can compare the Graime Staines incident with the Sikh who was killed in Phoenix.
Not that it would make it right to happen in US rather than in India.
Note to others: Sikhs in US would probably make up .1-0.2 % of the population and Christians around 85% or more.
[This message has been edited by Pranav Jaidka (edited October 09, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Pranav Jaidka (edited October 09, 2001).]
I didn't know that poor = mindless.
Originally posted by Pranav Jaidka:
Now lets talk about Blacks in America .theyve been here for how long Jason ???You should know??? Are they treated fairly ???How many Black presidents have you had ??? How many senators were black ??? How many mayors are black ???
And I think the second part is closely related with the first so I will no comment on that.
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