How do all the following fit into the large puzzle and why would I want to learn any of them (ie. what real benefit do they give me versus the learning curve), and is there an order to learning them:
Swing, Tapestry, Forrest, Cocoon, Maven, Turbine, Velocity, Spring (Winter, Fall, Summer ), Avalon, Excaliber, JSF, SWT
the real issue is that I'm trying to pull together an easy way to deliver web pages/elements/regions asynchronously (with Java, I'd prefer not to do AJAX unless that's the only way), with dynamic info at both ends and I want to be able to accomplish this trying to maintain as clean a MVC2 as I can.
I can't stand all that HTML in servlets, and I can't stand all the JSP in web pages - isn't there an easy way to decouple web pages from server code via templates - html templates, css templates, and webflow templates, all mixed together so I can have this from inside my Java dev environment (Eclipse).
Originally posted by Chengwei Lee:
Use MVC, you know that, don't you? In the ideal world, it will be great if you could decouple your business logic from presentation, but if you're working with existing codes, chances are you're stuck, unless you refactor.
Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
You don't need to learn everything at once. In fact, a lot of what you listed you don't ever need to learn at all.
If you want to write wep apps with servlets and JSP, just learn servlet basics, and become familiar with JSP 2.0 and the JSTL.
Be sure to write scripless JSP pages with no Java embedded within them. That way, your JSP pages are the pure templates you seek without any Java goo to gum up the works.
Then, and only then, are you in a position to determine if adopting other technologies is appropriate or even required.
Since your focus seems to be on web applications, I'm movong this to the Servlets forum.
I guess I need to read up more on scriptless JSP - I'm not really familiar with it unless all it is is the new JSP 2 that uses JSTL like tags rather than the scriptlet tags.
Originally posted by Ben Souther:
Learn the core technologies and THEN shop around to see if there is a framework that will make your life simpler.