Win a copy of Programming with Types this week in the Angular and TypeScript forum
or The Design of Web APIs in the Web Services forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Paul Clapham
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
Sheriffs:
  • Junilu Lacar
  • Knute Snortum
  • Henry Wong
Saloon Keepers:
  • Ron McLeod
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
Bartenders:
  • Frits Walraven
  • Joe Ess
  • salvin francis

U.S. Casualties

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 15304
6
Mac OS X IntelliJ IDE Chrome
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was watching Good Morning America this morning and they had a short story on the "first American Casualty" of this war. My first responds to myself was, "Wow, only 1 so far? That's pretty good." But the way they reported it, you would have thought the Pope died.
It is truly sad when anyone dies, however, what made this case so special?
Was it because he was the first? Well, news flash, he is not the first. There have been 3 others before him. Not to mention the 6000+ that died in the bombing, plus the hundreds that I am sure have died of the Northern Allience, and the truly innocent Afghans.
I guess I just don't understand why ABC decided to bring this casualty to our attention. I am not trying to lessin the importance of his death, I am just saying that all casualties of this war are just as important as his.
And I just want everyone to remember that. And remember that no one ever wins a war. My prayers go out every day to those suffering because of this.
My Two Cents.
Gregg Bolinger

[This message has been edited by Gregg Bolinger (edited November 29, 2001).]
 
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One reason for the highlight of his death is that he is the first US combat related casualty. The main reason as I see it though, is the nature of the media. They are much more interested in shaping the news and public opinion than they are in reporting it. Remember these people are vastly Democrat, and are more than happy to try to shape public opinion in such a way as to be damaging to our President's policy, and for that matter damaging to our nation. The father of the killed CIA operative blasted the media for reporting his son's death before it could be confirmed, jeopardizing his life had he still been alive (al-Queda wouldn't have known we had missing personnel if the media hadn't reported it, and you can bet they were looking for him). US pesonnel know what they are getting into, they know the risks and accept them, and they despise the media using reports of US casualties to further their own twisted agenda.

I am just saying that all casualties of this war are just as important as his.


Sorry but I have to disagree with you on that one. The lives of the al-Queda members, which include the foreigners who choose to fight with the Taliban, (Pakistanis, Chechens, Saudis, Egyptians, Uzbeks, etc...), are worthless. At least those we have successfully exterminated can now go on to the afterlife to reap their just rewards.

And remember that no one ever wins a war.


I have a feeling that some of the liberated Afghani women, particularly those who have no husband, might disagree with you since now they may get the opportunity to work to support their children.
 
Gregg Bolinger
Ranch Hand
Posts: 15304
6
Mac OS X IntelliJ IDE Chrome
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would like a small rebutle on one part. The part where I said all casualties of this war are just as important as his. What I meant was, all innocent cassualties, as far as U.S. Troops, civilians, Northern Allience Troops. Basically anyone that supports what we are doing. But NOT the al-Queda members as you, Jason, stated.
I just phrased that statement incorrectly. Thanks for pointing that out. I would hate for people to think that I think the terrorist should be considered along the same level of importance as everyone else with their deaths.
Gregg Bolinger
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it is a "real" war, this is just how wars are fought by us now. There are very few if any who can actually stand up to a sustained military operation from us. It is also important to realize that our military doctrine has changed significantly since Vietnam. The way we fight wars now is not by first putting in ground troops, but by using massive airpower intermingled with some special operations in order to destroy the enemy's will to fight. This is exactly what has happened in Afghanistan, it is what happened in Kosovo, and it is what happened in Iraq. So because of the way we now wage war as well as because of our military might, the days of US casualties in extreme numbers are pretty much over.
Remember, this is only the beginning for us unfortunately. It doesn't stop with Afghanistan. There will be many more US casualties down the road.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 202
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Remember these people are vastly Democrat, and are more than happy to try to shape public opinion in such a way as to be damaging to our President's policy, and for that matter damaging to our nation.


I definitely agree. And that bias was very clear, particularly during the first couple weeks of U.S. military action in Afghanistan. Every day the news of bombings focused on the "collateral" damage; civilians killed, aid warehouses in flames, the refugees forced from their homes...
I am not saying that those things are not newsworthy, but I am saying that the news was not balanced in devoting so much attention to those items while largely failing to mention what viable, enemy targets had been destroyed.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1012
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
actually, there was 1 death about 5 days into the initial military build-up... an Air Force guy died in a "heavy equipment" accident in Quatar.
but, you are right... the fact that this was the first COMBAT death makes it much more appealing to the media. however, another BIG reason they are talking about this one so much is the fact that they actually have film of the prison uprising and they even have footage of the CIA contractor just moments before he was killed. they ran the clip several times the first night which showed him coming around a corner (real close frame on his face) and then he left the area.
i guess they (media) feel special because "they were there" and have film to prove it. big deal! give one of these news anchors an H&K MP-5 and send them into a cave after bin laden... we will see just how much they like "being there" then.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

i guess they (media) feel special because "they were there" and have film to prove it.


Ever notice how self-serving the media is? I saw a commercial on MSNBC last week for a one hour special on "the lives of the reporters covering the conflict in Afghanistan." Like who gives a rat's patootie?
And further more, does anyone else think that MSNBC correspondent Ashleigh Banfield severely needs to be slapped?

[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited November 29, 2001).]
 
High Plains Drifter
Posts: 7292
Netbeans IDE VI Editor
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A simpler, if less conspiratorial, explanation for the media coverage on the casualty: there's not much else to report.
Jason, I could see your reaction to Democratically-inspired sniping at the President if we were talking about lots of casualties and "is it all worth it?" but I think you're overstepping in describing media anomosity towards a Republican president. I'm sure you remember Clinton taking it quite vigorously in the shorts over Somalia, the Chinese embassy, the factory in Sudan, etc., etc. Reporting values being first on coverage over party spin.
That said, freedom of the press belongs to those who own one, and I challenge you to show more media outlets run by staunchly Democratic sympathies over Republican. It's not as lopsided as a fervent Republican might like to belive. *No* one is beating up Bush over this loss that I have seen.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
A simpler, if less conspiratorial, explanation for the media coverage on the casualty: there's not much else to report.
Jason, I could see your reaction to Democratically-inspired sniping at the President if we were talking about lots of casualties and "is it all worth it?" but I think you're overstepping in describing media anomosity towards a Republican president. I'm sure you remember Clinton taking it quite vigorously in the shorts over Somalia, the Chinese embassy, the factory in Sudan, etc., etc. Reporting values being first on coverage over party spin.
That said, freedom of the press belongs to those who own one, and I challenge you to show more media outlets run by staunchly Democratic sympathies over Republican. It's not as lopsided as a fervent Republican might like to belive. *No* one is beating up Bush over this loss that I have seen.


I do not believe that the reporting of this one incident indicates a particular bent. I do stand by my claim of the prevailing far-left leanings of most of the media outlets, particularly the networks (CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS). Clinton was the media darling and they were actually pretty lenient on him I thought. Same with Hilary. Why wasn't she skewered for changing her residency to the first state with a Senate opening (and how could New Yorkers be so idiotic as to vote for a woman who does not have their interests at heart), or for her conduct during the President's speech to Congress after 9/11?
Clinton got very little flack over Sudan, and the military took the hit on the Chinese embassy thing as well as on Somalia. I think it is important to point out that we would never have been in Somalia if it was not for the media shaping public opinion on that one. They were even at the beaches as the Marines were landing. The commanders in the field ask for more armor citing security concerns, Clinton's people deny them. Like the commanders feared an incident goes down and a few Americans get killed (too bad they didn't have that armor they asked for), the media, the jelly-spined American people, and Clinton turn on the military in a heartbeat and they are pulled out. That's what twenty-four hour media public opinion shaping over-coverage of the bodies of US personnel being dragged through the streets will get you.
Oddly enough, I'm not a fervent Republican, nor even a Republican really. I prefer to remain unclassified and form my own opinions rather than try to conform to the opinions some political party is dictating to me. I dislike the extreme-right about as much as the extreme-left. Democrats want us to be a welfare state, and Republicans want us to be a corporate state. I'm not sure either one is ideal, but looking at European socialism, I'll have to take the corporate state.
 
Greg Harris
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1012
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
>I dislike the extreme-right about as much as the extreme-left. Democrats want us to be a welfare state, and Republicans want us to be a corporate state. I'm not sure either one is ideal, but looking at European socialism, I'll have to take the corporate state.
well said, Jason.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Justin Poggioli:
I think Ashleigh Banfield is a frisky biscuit.


Apparently so does Greg's monkey.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2823
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That could be debated Michael. Where is the outcry from the media on the lack of spending bills passing. Where is the outcry on the lack of federal judges even getting hearings. Where are the complaints about the bogus dairy compact. With much of the money going to "rich" dairy owners.
The biggest problem I see with most of the media is that they are lazy. Especially when it comes to reporting on legislation. It is easier for them to report on what one party or the other says than actually trying to find out what the bill says and figuring out what it might do. The what it might do is where all of the unintended consequences always happen. Since most people get all of their information from these sound bite wars we have a nation of very uninformed citizens. Finding out what bills really do is very difficult when they tend to be 90,000 pages just to say stop signs should be red and white
 
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Posts: 7292
Netbeans IDE VI Editor
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason -- your counterargument is one I'd also make, but instead for Ronald Reagan and associated events. Talk about a President the media loved! Geeeeez. You could have bowled me over with a feather to say a leftist media shaped his image.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Jason -- your counterargument is one I'd also make, but instead for Ronald Reagan and associated events. Talk about a President the media loved! Geeeeez. You could have bowled me over with a feather to say a leftist media shaped his image.


I think Reagan was an enigma. EVERYBODY loved Ronnie (except for John Hinkley Jr. that is). I have never seen a more popular president in my lifetime at least. No challenger came even remotely close in the elections, and as I remember it, they were some of the biggest landslides ever. He did catch some flack for Iran-Contra (the only scandal I can think of off the top of of my head), but he had the ultimate defense that nobody could argue with due to his age and failing health: "I do not recall." He also had a fall guy in Ollie North, so that didn't hurt either.
He made us feel good about ourselves and our country. He brought back the strength to our nation, which had taken a dive following the Vietnam and Carter years. He shaped our modern military and revitalized the space program. Definitely the greatest President of my lifetime, and possibly one of the greatest period.
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited November 30, 2001).]
 
Greg Harris
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1012
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
what's that about my monkey?
(i deleted the post... it was funny when i did it last night, but it was also a little on the rude side. besides, i think she is frisky biscuit, too)
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 103
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason I can understand why you might think Hilary wouldn't have New Yorker's interests at heart at least partially since she is what used to be called a carpetbagger. But speaking as a New York Democrat I was pretty happy she ran and won although I know that's not a popular opinion. As for Reagan, keeping in mind I vote Democrat almost allways I didn't think much of him. Not very intelligent for one thing. And his supply side economics led to our countries largest deficits in history. I viewed him as a second rate actor playing the part of Pres. although I guess that probably too harsh an assessment.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1479
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just thought I'd put in a few words on behalf of Ronnie. Under Ronnie and supply side economics, federal revenues did increase significantly when taxes were cut. However, Congress would not reduce domestic programs spending at the same time military spending was increasing, hence the resulting deficit. Supply side economics per se did nothing to cause the deficits, that was purely a political problem.
Why are conservatives always tarred as not being so bright? Granted, they are not intellectuals, but there isn't a close a correlation between being an intellectual and being intelligent as some people may think.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Well the news media is at it again after a 2000lb JDAM dropped by a B-52 went astray and killed 3 Special Ops guys, 5 friendly Afghan fighters, and wounded many others. Even though one of the wounded is the individual set to head the new Afghan government, the US media just kept droning on and on about the 3 US guys.
Everybody's favorite frisky biscuit, Ashleigh Banfield, was on interviewing some Marines near Kandahar. She kept asking them if they were worried because of the friendly fire incident. They were all basically saying "stuff happens", like you would expect them to, but she just kept asking anyway. My favorite Ashleigh moments of the broadcast were:
1. She goes up to one Marine, points at his weapon, and says knowingly, "So, I take it that's an M4 you have there?". He replies, "No, this is called an M-16." Priceless. She obviously has not seen any American action movies made after around 1970 or so.
2. Ske kept referring to the Marines as "soldier", as in, "What's your name soldier?" "Soldier" specifically refers to Army personnel, and Marines are addressed as "Marine" (and Navy personnel as "Sailor" and Air Force personnel as "Airman"). I'm sure they would have been more annoyed if she wasn't such a "frisky biscuit".
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I'm sure they would have been more annoyed if she wasn't such a "frisky biscuit".

Do you think she helps them stay warm at night?
 
Greg Harris
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1012
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
>Everybody's favorite frisky biscuit, Ashleigh Banfield, was on interviewing some Marines near Kandahar. She kept asking them if they were worried because of the friendly fire incident.
Jason: is she the same one that asked an F/A-18 pilot how he felt knowing one of his bombs went astray and hit a residential area? if so, she definitely needs to get spanked!
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Greg Harris:
if so, she definitely needs to get spanked!


Do you think she might like that?
 
Greg Harris
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1012
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
not that kind of spanking... this kind of spanking.


[This message has been edited by Greg Harris (edited December 06, 2001).]
 
Anonymous
Ranch Hand
Posts: 18944
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe we shouldn't complain that they are making a big deal out of 1 or 2 deaths, at least they arn't having to report 500 or so American deaths.....Remember the glass is half full not empty.
 
Jason Menard
Sheriff
Posts: 6450
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Greg Harris:
>Everybody's favorite frisky biscuit, Ashleigh Banfield, was on interviewing some Marines near Kandahar. She kept asking them if they were worried because of the friendly fire incident.
Jason: is she the same one that asked an F/A-18 pilot how he felt knowing one of his bombs went astray and hit a residential area? if so, she definitely needs to get spanked!


Not sure if it was her. Sounds like something she would say though. Spank her anyway.
 
What are you doing? You are supposed to be reading this tiny ad!
Sauce Labs - World's Largest Continuous Testing Cloud for Websites and Mobile Apps
https://coderanch.com/t/722574/Sauce-Labs-World-Largest-Continuous
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!