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And yet again... another intresting H1B article.

 
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eWeek.com published this article last week:
Storm Clouds Rise Over H1-B.
Also, take a look at the man, who at least make us believe that he's trying to prevent IT from total outsourcing and American IT professionals from unemployment: Anti-H1-B Congressman Plans Strategy.
Furthermore, here's a person, who's according to eWeek.com was one of the strongest supporters of H1B program, stating that IT field would certainly drown without new H1B injections: Representative Zoe Lofgren 16th District of California.
--Alex
[ July 01, 2002: Message edited by: Alex Ayzin ]
 
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i find the statement that industry cant find people with the skills they need because our educational institutions are inadequate offensive.
i think its ok to let a few extreemly talented foreigners in (at competive wages and hours), but thats not what they have been doing.
as the one article mentioned there is also the problem of outsourcing.
 
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Originally posted by Randall Twede:
i think its ok to let a few extreemly talented foreigners in (at competive wages and hours), but thats not what they have been doing.


hey what exactly are you trying to say??
Lupo
 
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Originally posted by gautham kasinath:

hey what exactly are you trying to say??
Lupo


He is trying to say all H1Bs are not best and brightest If they were, world would have seen great inventions/research in their countries of origin.(Atleast in the field of computer Science)
Software/Hardware does not even require graduate education unlike traditional branches of engineering like Mech/civil/aerospace.H1B visa program has been abused by companies in the name of bringing 'best talent' from the world.
regards
 
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In fact, most of those ads we see for programmers that list every technology known to man and require 10 years of Java are there specifically to get H1Bs. That way the company can claim they tried to get an American but couldn't find one.
 
Alex Ayzin
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Well, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to offend anyone, the only point I was really trying to bring across that for the first time I was able to see who's really behind all that H1B smoke; who should I thank for 1 year that I'm already out of the job, since my manager asked my team to train a bunch of H1B people that came in to replace us. Just the usual stuff from grumpy unemployed NYC programmer.
Best regards,
--Alex
 
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Originally posted by Alex Ayzin:
... for 1 year that I'm already out of the job, since my manager asked my team to train a bunch of H1B people that came in to replace us.
--Alex


It's competition&capitalism man!
Why don't you work harder and accept a lower pay?
 
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There you go! And its all over again.. and again.. and again...
At this rate, this topic is also going to end up in Sheriff's blackbook pretty soon!
 
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Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

It's competition&capitalism man!
Why don't you work harder and accept a lower pay?


Sadly it's nothing to do with working harder my friend.
Unfortunately many people who are US citizens cannot afford to take big pay cuts because their costs of living are so high. When your costs of living are lower it is easier to undercut US citizens and take lower paid jobs in the US.
Anyway, if people in the US were prepared to work for less companies wouldn't need to look abroad to get their work done within an ever-decreasing budget.
It's true that it's all about the bottom line.
 
Randall Twede
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Alex,
it wasnt anything you said that offended me, it was something in the article.
 
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It's competition & capitalism man!
I used to work with a lot of H1-B people, many
of them are still employed.
I noticed a strange pattern to them. Almost
all of them were thirty-ish or under. Most of
them were Indians. I would think vegetarian,
Yoga practicing, mediatating 50 year old Indian
would have a lot of years left on him.
How come they don't leave the old country behind
for the land of opportunity?
 
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Originally posted by sprintup:
He is trying to say all H1Bs are not best and brightest If they were, world would have seen great inventions/research in their countries of origin.(Atleast in the field of computer Science)



But the H1Bs are not exactly competing with the best and brightest in the US. The quality that is required for different types of IT jobs are not the same. For example, the quality you expect if you were recruiting people to work on something like this is not the same as the quality required for a project like an online shopping thingummy. You can train almost any one to fool around with JSP , RMI etc with minimal effort, but it would take a great deal more to train the same person to write device drivers. If you think otherwise, you still have a long way to go before you begin to understand the difference .
Most of these jobs that require a higher quality of skills are filled with native American talent. The area where the H1B worker competes with native Americans is for jobs such as enterprise database application development. Compared to what you used to get for that kind of job, the H1B is of a higher quality. To take the H1Bs from India as an example. The IT industry in India is not so highly developed as to throw nothing but chaff into the H1B programme. These people may not be the best and brightest in the world but they are the best and brightest in India. So they tend to be better and brighter than the typical American worker they compete with.

I can understand the feelings of someone who has been unemployed for a long time. But it's hardly fair to blame the Indians for your problems . What you need to do is either hit the books and put yourself in a professional bracket where the H1B is no longer a threat to you or start thinking seriously about going to medical school or law school or some such thing. Reducing the number of H1Bs isn't going to help you. You may send the H1B home, but if he is alive and well in some distant corner of the earth the work will follow him there. This is called free market economy or some such thing. They say this is what makes America tick. Attempting to fight it is like wanting to have your cake and eat it too

I am not saying there aren't any Indian H1Bs in the highly skilled category. A typical team like that may be a mixture of many nationalities. Most of the H1Bs in that category are not drawn by the money it's more of a professional fulfilment thing.

My apologies if I have offended anyone. It isn't my intention to belittle anyone. The truth may often be unpleasant. It is far better to follow Laloo's example and come to terms with your limitations than to harbour delusions of grandeur
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Lalooprasad Yadav:
The area where the H1B worker competes with native Americans is for jobs such as enterprise database application development.

Which is the problem!!! H1B's are not supposed to be competing with Americans for jobs. They are supposed to be here because there are no Amercians available to fill a job. That is obviously hogwash so it is time to end the H1B program. Even if an H1B holder is smarter than every American, the H1B holder has no right to a job as long as there are Americans who can do the job!
 
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Originally posted by Lalooprasad Yadav:


To take the H1Bs from India as an example. The IT industry in India is not so highly developed as to throw nothing but chaff into the H1B programme. These people may not be the best and brightest in the world but they are the best and brightest in India.


Thats true, I know many who graduated from so called 'top school' with degrees such as MTech in Civil/Aerospace/Mech but working now as a C++/Java Developers in US.
 
Lalooprasad Yadav
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
H1B's are not supposed to be competing with Americans for jobs.


I agree with that. But abolishing the H1B programme will not ensure that the same person will not compete with the American worker from his country.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Lalooprasad Yadav:

I agree with that. But abolishing the H1B programme will not ensure that the same person will not compete with the American worker from his country.

I am willing to compete with anyone on fair terms. H1B's are not competing fairly because they give the employer an unfair advantage. An employer has much more control over an H1B than they do with any regular employee.
 
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Originally posted by Lalooprasad Yadav:

I agree with that. But abolishing the H1B programme will not ensure that the same person will not compete with the American worker from his country.


From what I understand, many American companies who are outsourcing their software development to other countries are becoming disillusioned with the results and with the communication problems due to different languages and timezones. These problems must be factored in when planning to outsource a project, and definitely serves to level the playing field somewhat.
The current H1B system is a perversion of the intent and employers are using it illegaly to damage domestic labor. Under no circumstances should an American worker be competing with an H1B for a job in the US.
The time has definitely come to end the program as it applies to the IT sector, as it has been perverted far beyond its original intent.
[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:

From what I understand, many American companies who are outsourcing their software development to other countries are becoming disillusioned with the results and with the communication problems due to different languages and timezones.



Huh? I thought more and more companies are outsourcing their systems requirements. My (ex)company included.
 
Pradip Bhat
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About outsourceing, there are 2 types of companies, companies who develop software products and others who give software services.
Countries of attraction for outsourcing are India/China/Finland/Philipines.
Companies like Texas Instruments has been in Bangalore since 1984.Intel is spending $600mn(Thats what they say :roll: ) on Offshore Development Center.Microsoft/Sun/Oracle have already presence here.
Other types of companies include who give services(dell etc),Call Center system.that is companies who are into service sector and who have global presence.
Last type of companies are , who are into Software Consulting, Here there are many ,infact in 100s.
I don't see much problem for the companies falling under first 2 types.For the last catagory,Problem might occur unless the tasks are explicitly defined which seldom happens in software industry.
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
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