Compare this to India: I have lived here for 33 years, I have gone to the most remote places, traveled to sacred spots with my cameras, tape recorder and white face. And never once have I been aggressed, never once has my passport been asked for in the streets (try traveling in the subway in Paris if you have a brown face and a leather jacket), never once have I been mugged at late nights in Delhi, Mumbai or Chennai, whereas in Washington, the capital of the 'land of freedom,' we were told not to go out alone in certain parts after 8 pm.
Originally posted by <rahul rege>:
The article seems to be sponsered by Vishwa Hindu Parishad(www.vhp.org)or any of the thousand nodes of the root,Sangh Parivar(www.rss.org).
Francois Gautier's journalism seems to be limited upto talking to some 'five star' socialites.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by <slacker>:
Once India starts calling itself a Hindu country, what happens to the rest of the people who are of other religions? Should they move to other countries or should they become Hindu?
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
Call me non-secular or whatever, I support RSS and VHP 100%. Unlike Jehadis, they don't export terrorism, they don't blow up planes or buildings, they don't do suicide bombing.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
While they may not blow up planes or building or do suicide bombings, if I'm not mistaken, one of their favorite tactics is to burn people alive, including missionaries and their children. Nice bunch of people to throw your support behind 100%.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Americans refer to our country as being a Christian country (or Judeo-Christian when we are being inclusive). That does not mean that other faiths aren't welcome here.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
These people have taken undue advantage of Hindu hospitality and tolerance and have screwed us for well over 500 years.[QB]
Nobody screwed anybody,Read the history,It was politics for the power and money.If you read the history(written by Secular authors),you will see that ecomonics and power were the main reasons and not religion behind the wars.
And what about the treatment given to 'lower caste/untouchables' by 'upper caste'hospitable/tolerant Hindus???Have you read book 'Riddles of Hinduism' by B R Ambedkar?It is available on the web.
It's time to WAKE UP. There is nothing wrong if RSS and VHP are openly voicing our case and if they are doing what Hindus should have done long back. Kick some butt.[QB]
You are openly voicing against whom?Just bcos some Muslim ruler killed some Hindus 350 years back,You want to take the revange on Muslims who are living here since 1000 years?
[QB]Call me non-secular or whatever, I support RSS and VHP 100%. Unlike Jehadis, they don't export terrorism, they don't blow up planes or buildings, they don't do suicide bombing. Compare this to various muslim organizations in India that run good for nothing madarasas and promote hatred against their own motherland.
RSS/VHP have their hidden fascist agenda.They havn't come up upto 'the level' of Jehidis bcos India opted democracy system instead of any other in 1947.These were the same RSS who once opposed entry of 'Untouchables'(Dalits) into some temples.These are the same RSS who have supported Social structure based on 'Caste'.Now these are the same RSS/BJP who are doing corruption scandals in Coffins/Gas stations/Education .
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
First, neither VHP nor RSS support bunring people alive and neither do I. This was an isolated incident and nobody knows what exactly triggered this to happen.
I would not brand Hindus or RSS or VHP as such.
If you keep harping on this incident all the time and make them the target of your satire, it just shows your ignorance about the complete picture.
In any case, the missionary went into the land of "un-enlightned" and uneducated people, who were deep into the darkness of Hinduism, to show them the "light" of Jesus. He should have factored in the risks
And why doesn't so called secular international community take notice when Hindus are persucuted and temples are destroyed in Pak. and BDesh?
Yes, I do support RSS and VHP 100%.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Then you share responsibility for their actions.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
What happened to Graham Stains was bad and should not happen but ...
And I will do all I can to prevent them from brainwashing poor and illiterate people. RSS and VHP is definitely a step in the right direction.
And I do support them 100%.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Then you share responsibility for their actions.
Yeshwantpur
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
[QB]
Or if you can't afford to help provide for the whole family, then why not adopt a child from one of the missionary run orphanages? I'm sure since you want to do all you can "to prevent them from brainwashing poor and illiterate people" then this would be an excellent way to achieve this goal of yours. Or would that require too much effort and commitment?
/QB]
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by rahul rege:
Problem is, identifying fascists/extremists among elitist/educated Hindus.They don't say openly their agenda but support it and use uneducated youth to implement it by tactics.Take the example of Gujarat massacre.I have spoken to many people who are the natives of that state.Privately many said that "There was a need to 'punish' Muslims" These people to whom I talked were not some illiterate but educated with good financial status.Why this change in the attiude in middle/higher middle class in India?Main reason is, RSS has succeeded in implementing hidden agenda of hatred for the last 25 years.This was done in many ways like forming 100s of organizations in the name of ancient culture across the world,spreading stories of 'golden era'(i.e. how we were ahead of world,and how 'those'people detroyed 'our' culture and 'looted' us ).
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by rahul rege:
).
Or if you can't afford to help provide for the whole family, then why not adopt a child from one of the missionary run orphanages? I'm sure since you want to do all you can "to prevent them from brainwashing poor and illiterate people" then this would be an excellent way to achieve this goal of yours. Or would that require too much effort and commitment?
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
Pakka desi you may be from IITD but u need a lesson in humanity. The real threat to secularism comes from people like you. The day I read about the esteemed lawyer, union minister and BJP spokesman Arun Jaitley (whom I held in high regard until then) put up a defence for Narendra Modi (Indian Hitler) I felt I had been wrong in assuming that just because these people are educated and successful people they are morally right. I understood what facsists means. Narendra Modi sounds so confident about everything he talks. He has no remorse for killings in Gujarat. Even the British removed General Dyer after Jalianwala bagh but did the elitist of BJP (including Vajpayee) remove Modi? Fortunately everyone in India does not think like Pakka desi. Wait till next elections. Congress Party is back in 15 states and now Kashmir too. This time we will select a prime minister who can walk, stay awake during meetings and has only one agenda - well being of _all_ Indians.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
Even the British removed General Dyer after Jalianwala bagh but did the elitist of BJP (including Vajpayee) remove Modi?
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Dave
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
If BJP does not follow our line, it has to go too.
Dave
Originally posted by Dave Vick:
I was right you are pretty intolerant. What you are describing sounds pretty much like a dictatorship, good idea seeing how well they've all worked out in the past. < sarcasm smiley />
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Maybe fundamentalist dictatorship would be more appropriate?
Dave
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
[QB]
Congress gave nothing to the country except corruption and scandals. People trusted the congress leaders for 40 years. During most of independent years of India, congress had absolute majority and what they gave back to the country? Right from Nehru to Rajiv Gandhi era, this party has been looting the country and you are are saying that it will keep the well being of *all* Indians. Who will be your leader? Sonia Gandhi? Why not go back to getting ruled by the Queen???
It is only because of people like you that Congress is surviving. But not for long.
QB]
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
She and the Gandhi family have made great sacrifices for the nation.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
Giving a person the ability to choose his religion is different than befooling him into converting to another.
That's what these guys are doing. They are undermining our culture. If they have the money power, we have the will power.
All these years they have been playing theor trick, but nobody is calling them as hate groups.
How do you convert a person BTW? By making him believe that his current religion is bad.
If they have the right to further their religion by using money, we have the right to prevent their conversions by all the means we have.
They are free to practice whatever religion they want but not at the cost of Hindus.
All we want to do is to protect ourselves.
We don't need missionaries to do that for us. Neither did we invite them. They came here on their own free will and they are free to go back. Nobody is forcing them to help. They got a free reign under the british rule. Not anymore.
Dave
Originally posted by Dave Vick:
OK, first off we are talking about religion here right?! There is no 'befooling', if you are trying to get someone to convert to your religion you are going to tell them your beliefs and why you think they are right. You're not fooling anyone, you trying to convince them of something. There is no monetary gain involved, no-one is keeping score of the number of converts you get and rewarding you for it (at least not with $$) so there is no reason for someone to lie to someone else.
You may be a fundamentalist, but you're also extreme and sound like you're also quite a bit dangerous to anyone who disagrees with you - I'm glad that you are in the minority.
I'm just saying...it's right there!
Originally posted by Dave Vick:
And if they choose to stay then you'll just kill the all?
I'm just saying...it's right there!
So while you may not appreciate foreigners coming in and feeding, clothing, educating, and providing health care to these people, I'm sure the beneficiaries of the aid are thankful for it.
Further, I think it's amusing how you think so little of your "poor" as people, that you do not credit them with the ability to choose what religion they want to follow.
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
:
Americans on the whole believe they should help others. The amount of money that poured into WTC relief funds, to me, was just staggering. Government aid to other countries is a huge package, but simple domestic aid through relief programs and missions is no small amount. And yes, some of those programs intend to spread a message: that's nothing new here either, because it is the faith that compels some people to help in the first place.
There is no 'befooling', if you are trying to get someone to convert to your religion you are going to tell them your beliefs and why you think they are right. You're not fooling anyone, you trying to convince them of something.