:mad: Bali Bombing!!!

[Anonymous]

Cold blooded murder, again, and again you know that somewhere people are celebrating.
Anyone who's ever been to the Sari Club, Bali, indonesia, knows that most of the dead will be Aussies.
The crowd present there was mostly aussies and kiwis, very few locals.
Bali is 95% Hindu, so these Islamic Extemists hit a place they know they won't accidently hit followers of Islam. Still not sure this is done by Islamic Extremists or ???
Even though the casualities are a mix of nationalities, I say it was done to target directly Australia's support of the US.
I wonder will this make Australians more into "the war on terror" (for lack of a better term) or will it make them distance themselves from it. As in, look what we've gotten ourselves into, lets get out of this before something else happens.
I hate to say, but if this had occured in Miami, Iraq and possibly someother country would be in ruins already.

[Anonymous]

You can bet that in all the newspapers the muslim extremists will blame this on the CIA as George W's attempt to bring Australia into his Iraq war camp, if they tried to pin the Bungling Jakarta Butterfingers Bomber who blew himself up w/a hand grenade on the USA you know this one will also be touted as CIA handiwork.
Between George W who is the idiot savant son of George; look at his circle of advisors, it's the same group that was hanging around George Senior's cabinet table. Do a little research & see how much Dick Cheney's Haliburton earned off the 1s Iraq war. Anyhow every time George rattles his war sabre the price of crude goes up a few bucks & then his Dad, Cheney & friends make a few more million, we gave the fox the keys to the hehouse when we let George win the battle of the "chads" back in Fla one November a few years ago.
Well anyhow no good on the other side either, Saddam is about as evil as any man can get, even known to whack his own relatives in fits of paranoia.
The sad thing is the Muslim Extremists & George Bush's are pulling us into what I think could be the mother of all wars, this thing is just getting worse day by day.
Australia will now go straight over to George's camp. This is going to end up the West against all Muslims, which is what the extremists want, & the oil barons wouldn't mind
What about us folk just trying to get by, I'm afraid we are in for some very uncertain times.

[Paavam Payyan]

Really sad! They were all innocents! Terrible!

[Anonymous]

Hi Pavaam payyan,
what happen to your marriage? once you said that your Mom is arranging a marriage for you.
Sorry for asking this good news in this sad thread.

Originally posted by Paavam Payyan:
Really sad! They were all innocents! Terrible!

[Anonymous]

My question is ,What these terrorists are achiving after killing so many people?
If they have problems, why not solve in proper ways instead of killing those who don't have to anything with politics?

[Paavam Payyan]

Originally posted by <rahul rege>:
why not solve in proper ways ..?

That will be against their work ethics, you see! After all they are 'TERROR'ists! Ba***rds!
PS: Nalla Payyan, due to the volatile global political situation (read 'uncertain times at work'), marriage get a low priority rating. After all I will have to find that RIGHT person first, right?

[David O'Meara]

Apparently it is an attack to punish Australia for the support of the US war machine.
Unfortunately I see it doing the opposite. There was a lot of criticism for the PM's support for the USA, now I expect to see increased support for the PM's position.
Looks like they don't understand the Australian culture at all.

[Mark Howard]

It hasn't really been a good start to the new millenium, has it?
And here we all thought the Y2K bug was going to be our biggest threat in 2000+

[Anonymous]

No Americans die in Bali, and so not a single American cares to post about this (except David & Mark)!!
How narrow-minded and selfish are (most of the) Americans after all!?!

[Angela Poynton]

Originally posted by <even more tragic>:
No Americans die in Bali, and so not a single American cares to post about this (except David & Mark)!!
How narrow-minded and selfish are (most of the) Americans after all!?!

I think it may be more due to the fact that we are actively discouraging threads on such particularly sensitive topics, so most people who know how these threads usually end up (i.e. closed / deleted because some people choose to argue and offend rather than discuss inteligently).
Yes it was an awful thing to happen. But as has been pointed out in such topics here before, this forum is called "Meaningless Drivel" and this event was far from meaningless. There are more appropriate places to discuss such things.

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by some Anonymous Coward:
No Americans die in Bali, and so not a single American cares to post about this (except David & Mark)!!
How narrow-minded and selfish are (most of the) Americans after all!?!

Get a life, and be man enough not post anonymously when insulting others. Two Americans confirmed dead, five missing, three injured. You could have found that info if you bothered to look. And I don't know about Mark, but David is Australian. You could have found out that [url=http://www.javaranch.com/contact.jsp#DavidO%27Meara]info[/url] as well.
From what I understand there are three possible reasons the terrorists may have had for targetting Australians, if they were indeed specifically targetted at all (as opposed to just being an attack on westerners in general).
1. Australian involvement in East Timor
2. Australian support for the war on terror
3. Australia has been listed, along with other western nations, as a potential target for terrorism by Islamic whackos for some time now (prior to 9/11 supposedly).
The purpose of the attack could as well have been to disrupt the booming tourism-based economy of the largest non-Muslim area of Indonesia.
Actually though, this is most likely just one more part of what appears to be a renewed Al-Quaida campaign, possibly signalled by the release of messages reportedly by bin Laden and al-Zwahieri (sp?) by that terrorist mouthpiece, Al Jazeera. Attacks on US Marines in Kuwait, an attack on a French oil tanker in Yemen, and the Bali attacks were all relatively close together.
Anyway, here's a Google search which might help you find what you seem to be missing. Glad I could help.
[ October 21, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by <even more tragic>:
How narrow-minded and selfish are (most of the) Americans after all!?!

And what exactly do you want us to post?

[Mark Howard]

I'm not American or Australian, although I was in Australia at the time of the incident. I am in fact from Africa where tragedy and adversity are commonplace, and where any incident on the same scale as the Bali bombing is not likely to attract the same attention from the regular media giants.
The massacre of 54 Ugandan people, for instance, which occurred at the same time as the Bali bombing, hardly made the newspapers at all, let alone headline news. Sadly - and cynically - it appears that only western blood is worth mourning for by first world standards.
No one can be held accountable for not commenting on a tragedy. It certainly won't change the course of tragic events that this world seems so capable of.

[Michael Ernest]

Originally posted by <even more tragic>:
No Americans die in Bali, and so not a single American cares to post about this (except David & Mark)!!
How narrow-minded and selfish are (most of the) Americans after all!?!

It surprises me that you are criticizing others for failing to do what you do not do. It might have occurred to you to simply express sympathy for the dead and injured in Bali, instead of blaming others for your own indifference.
Look at you: so addled with anger you can't see the suffering itself. It's all you can do to find fault with people you don't even know.
You're sad. I hope you find a way out of it.

[Anonymous]

Angela, I understand your concern. Condemning an attack or posting a word of support to the relatives of the victims expressing your sympathy, could cause controversial follow ups and debates, but I do not think that was the ONLY reason why there were no posts here about Bali bombing. We all know that there are a good number of Australian ranchers and South East Asian ranchers in here. And 'sensitive topics' is nothing new to Meaningless Drivel.
Jason, I agree, its not good to post as a 'Anonymous Coward', but please do not forget, deviating the attention of the reader to things like I didn't post with my proper username etc doesn't really cover up the actual fact that even you ? the most active participant of most of the discussions in this 'Meaningless Drivel' section, didn't care a little about posting a single word of sympathy! May be you were busy educating the hypocrite Hindus the benefits of Christianity!
I totally agree with Mark Howard! It seems that the blood of the first world is some how more precious than that of the third world. And I also agree that no one can be held responsible for 'not lamenting' a tragedy. But I can expect them to, can't I?

Its quite amusing (and sad) to note that an incident which brought sorrow and misery to more than 200 families received FAR LESS ATTENTION from some ranchers, THAN a single sentence of mud-slinging by a anonymous poster! And Tomas Paul and Michael Ernest didn't get it yet! They are busy fighting me for blaming them! I am really sorry for posting harsh, but I guess Michael is right ? I was sad!
And let me add, that was a nice trick from Michael, but I will not give you any clues here. Well, you have my IP anyway.

[Thomas Paul]

Yesterday a bus was blown up in Israel killing 12 people. Why didn't you post to say how tragic it was? If we post at every tragedy then that is all we will do. If someone had said that they lost a friend then of course I would have posted! But I doubt that any relatives of the survivors read JavaRanch.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by <even more tragic>:
I totally agree with Mark Howard! It seems that the blood of the first world is some how more precious than that of the third world. And I also agree that no one can be held responsible for 'not lamenting' a tragedy. But I can expect them to, can't I?

To the first part: I don't think so. Why were Americans willing to die in Somalia if we didn't think much of the third world. Second, not all of us lament tragedies by posting to JavaRanch.

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by some Anonymous Coward:
Jason, ... even you ? the most active participant of most of the discussions in this 'Meaningless Drivel' section, didn't care a little about posting a single word of sympathy!

AC, I have not posted explicitly expressing my sympathy for the 9/11 victims, I have not posted explicitly expressing my sympathy for the terrorist victims in Israel, I have not posted explicitly expressing my sympathy to the victims of terrorism in Pakistan, nor more recently in Kuwait, and I have not posted explicitly expressing my sympathy to the victims of the Beltway Sniper. So why would I suddenly feel the need to come on to Java Ranch and proclaim my sympathy for the many victims of the Bali murders? I believe my position on acts such as the Bali murders is fairly well known and I don't feel I have to justify myself, particularly to some anonymous guy too frightened to post under his normal user name.
By the way, where were your expressions of sympathy for the Bali murders, for the 13 Israelis killed yesterday, or for the victims of the Beltway sniper? Maybe you were just too busy educating the rest of us about what a bigot you are?

I totally agree with Mark Howard! It seems that the blood of the first world is some how more precious than that of the third world.

Really? What about putting ourselves on the line in Somalia (until Clinton tucked tail and ran), Bosnia, and Kosovo? How about putting ourselves on the line to bring the Kurds out of the mountains, feeding, and sheltering them, when the Iraqis were taking out their frustrations on them after the Gulf war (you probably weren't even aware of this operation)?
Do you really have no idea why the western media might give a little bit more coverage to events that have a direct impact on the west? Even asking that question would be like asking why Washington, DC news spends so much time covering events in Washinton, DC, for example. Some things are just too obvious to even bother explaining.

But I can expect them to, can't I?

Sorry if some of us don't live up to your expectations. Just because I expect Anonymous Cowards to be man enough to post using their normal name when flinging insults and accusations, doesn't mean they are.
[ October 22, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]

[Cindy Glass]

Originally posted by mark howard:
Sadly - and cynically - it appears that only western blood is worth mourning for by first world standards.

Huh??
If MY kid gets hurt or killed I am more upset about and mourn about it more that if YOUR kid gets killed. That is just human nature. That does NOT mean that your Kids blood is not worth mourning for by my standards. It just means that I personally am not as closely tied to your kid as to mine.
There is NO WAY that I can be as equally tied to every person on this earth as I am to the folks right here around me. It is totally unfair for you to then draw the conclusion that I think the blood of others farther away is less precious or not worth mourning for.

[Mark Fletcher]

Originally posted by <even more tragic>:

And let me add, that was a nice trick from Michael, but I will not give you any clues here. Well, you have my IP anyway.

Why doesnt someone just post the supposed alias of this smart ass if we already have his ip?

[Cindy Glass]

Why?

[Mark Howard]

Originally posted by Cindy Glass:

There is NO WAY that I can be as equally tied to every person on this earth as I am to the folks right here around me. It is totally unfair for you to then draw the conclusion that I think the blood of others farther away is less precious or not worth mourning for.

You missed my point. I was not saying that anyone's feelings towards this-or-that tragedy varies based on geographic location or personal involvement, or even their personal feelings. That would be absurd. I was talking about first world perspective on these issues, which (unfortunately) is usually relative to the media coverage of that event. As such, the Bali bombing was far more likely to be closer to the front pages of most major newspapers than the massacre in Uganda.
Why? It doesn't sell, it isn't western blood, it doesn't have much political leverage on the world stage, and it won't ooze grief and emotion which draws the masses to the breaking news specials of the network news giants.
My gripe is with the media, nothing else

[Mark Fletcher]

Originally posted by Cindy Glass:
Why?

Well... Why not?

[Paul Stevens]

Not our policy.

[Frank Silbermann]

One reason more attention is given to horrible events that affect the "1st world" is that we believe we ought to be able to do something about it. On the other hand, getting involved in every 3rd world vs. 3rd world massacre would put us back in the business of "colonialist imperialism."
Considering all the criticism Americans received (and still receive to this day) for trying to rescue 3rd world countries from Stalinists, it's a wonder most Americans don't want to simply retreat from the world and be like 20th century Switzerland. I mean, if we had let the communists take over Africa, the Middle East, and South America, America would certainly have fewer problems now. We'd be able to buy all the natural resources we wanted cheaply in exchange for grain to feed the famine-causing tyrants and their soldiers.
Instead, people blame us for the fact that the people whose lives we saved with western medicine in countries with rapidly expanding populations are poor. As though 3rd world countries would somehow be richer if our trade with them ceased.
What goes on in some countries that kicked out the westerners is sometimes just too sad to behold. And the people whose grandparents kicked out the European colonial rulers now only want to relocate to the few remaining countries that still have western governments.

[Anonymous]

{
Considering all the criticism Americans received (and still receive to this day) for trying to rescue 3rd world countries from Stalinists, it's a wonder most Americans don't want to simply retreat from the world and be like 20th century Switzerland.
}
Well you should stop bombing those countries you wish to rescue from Communists.