nekkid wimmin

[paul wheaton]

Rudely and shamelessly stolen from somewhere else on the internet....
----------------

Dear Sirs;
I have the solution for the prevention of hijackings, and at the same time
getting our airline industry back on its feet. Since men of the Muslim
religion are not allowed to look at naked women we should replace all of
our female flight attendants with strippers.
Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes for fear of seeing a naked
woman, and of course, every businessman in this country would start flying
again in hope of seeing a naked woman. We would have no more hijackings,
and the airline industry would have record sales.
Now why didn't Bush think of this? Why do I still have to do everything
myself?
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton

[Anonymous]

What to do if they choose Female hijackers?I don't think there is any law in Islam for watching body of same sex.
hmmm,now whats the solution?

[Anonymous]

Does this mean that Christian men are allowed to see naked women...
--Ice

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Hmmm, no Muslims around to protest this posting? The joke itself is pathetic - and is disparaging/ belittling to my Muslim brothers and sisters. I don't want crap like this to be posted on the Ranch - no matter who does it.

[Cindy Glass]

NN - did you see the bottom of the post? The post was intended to be an insult to Bill Clinton - not Muslims.
:roll:

[Mark Fletcher]

I kinda see how some people would find that joke funny. Then again I definitely see how a lot of people would be offended.

[Randall Twede]

i read somewhere about the difference between naked and nekkid. if you are naked you have no clothes on. if you are nekkid you have no clothes on and are up to something.

[paul wheaton]

I remember running a conferencing system in the mid 80's and somebody posted a mountain of jokes about quadraplegics (i.e. what do you call a guy with no arms and legs in a swimming pool? Bob!). Well, somebody said "What if an actual quadraplegic came here and saw that!" So I sent a private message to the author (we didn't have e-mail back then). It turns out that the author was a quadraplegic. He would type with a mouth stick. Later, I met him in person. A helluva guy.
So it seems there are two ways to go:
1) Tell no jokes, because at the root of nearly any joke is something that could be found offensive to someone.
2) Tell jokes and live with the occasional flames. Of course, this is something that can be taken too far. I guess it is up to the moderators to determine what truly is in bad taste and to be removed.
I think we'll go with plan B. I would much rather live life and risk pissing a few people off, than to hide in a corner to avoid pissing anybody off.
As for this particular joke, my knowledge of Muslim practices is pretty limited, but is the thing about nude women false?

[Anonymous]

As long as you are consistent it is ok.
I remember whemn I posted a harmless Indo-Pak joke, which was actually sent to me by a Pakistani friend.
The moderator deleted it and proudly proclaimed "JavaRanch is a friendly place. We dont allow that sort of thing here". Apparently Iraq/US jokes are allowed, but the joke has to be on Iraq.

[paul wheaton]

Consistancy is not guarnteed. We're just bumbling along trying to make the best of things.
I think we all want to have a good natured laugh - and none of us wants to be the target of something.
It's really hard to hold a ruler up to something and determine how good or bad it is.
I did not realize that this joke had Iraq in it.
I guess the sterotyping is with you and not with the joke. It seems to me that this joke is about muslim hijackers and Clinton.

[David O'Meara]

Originally I didn't see the signature and didn't think it was right.
Then I saw the 'Bill Clinton' and experienced belly-laughs.

[Jim Yingst]

Well I think just about any joke with religioin at its root, is asking for trouble in this forum. I'd really rather not encourage it. Pot-shots at Clinton are OK though.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

>did you see the bottom of the post?
Sure did, but the name doesn't matter. Replace it with Hugh Hefner, or Dan Quayle, or Thingamma Bob - and the joke still targets Muslims.
This joke stereotypes Muslims as hijackers (or hijackers as Muslims? - some hijackers should be protesting this post too ). And mocks their religious beliefs.
And ofcourse, it treats women as sex-objects, but I'll let the feminists harangue you about it - doesn't bother me
>I would much rather live life and risk pissing a few people off, than to hide in a corner to avoid pissing anybody off
As Jim says, when religion is mocked, it becomes unpleasant. And given the current atmosphere in the world, I've seen enough innocent Muslims being targeted - so just don't want that encouraged in our friendly forums.

[Thomas Paul]

Actually it does none of those things. I thought it was all those things and was not amused until I read the signature and then fell out of my chair. It's obviously targeting the lust of our recent president. It has nothing to do with Moslems. Clinton is using that as an excuse to get what he wants... naked women stewardesses.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

Using the name 'Bill Clinton' is just a decoy that makes it a joke. The heart of the issue is, it refers to Muslims in a disparaging way. And that's what I don't want here.
And let's keep in mind it's not what you judge as derogatory (influenced as you are by the 'joke'), it's what a sensitive Muslim would see in it.

[Mapraputa Is]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
And let's keep in mind it's not what *YOU* judge as derogatory (influenced as you are by the 'joke'), it's what a sensitive *muslim* would see in it.

But this would require us to abandon our own frame of references, and we arent going to do that, well, whithout a help from a gun to temple in any case.

[Tom Hughes]

There will always be off-colour jokes, I guess you have 3 options when it comes to dealing with them - you can hide away from them (or hide them away form you), get offended or just laugh. I choose the latter, what do you choose ?

[Thomas Paul]

What disparaging way does it refer to Moslems? Are you going to deny that all the recent hijackings in the US were done by Moslems?

[Cindy Glass]

If anything it shows the Muslims in a good light. They are the ones that are shown to avoid places where naked women are on display. This sounds like a GOOD thing to me. Makes them sound like they have some ethics and class.
Only scum hangs out in Girly Bars. This joke casts the American Business men as the jerks. With Bill Clinton being the worst of them.
I just don't get how this casts a bad light on Muslims at all . . .

[Calli Nascent]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
[QB]>And ofcourse, it treats women as sex-objects, but I'll let the feminists harangue you about it - doesn't bother me [QB]

I just have to say that I find this interesting. You're basically saying that the part where some women may feel they're being insulted is A-OK in your book, and yet you want people to be sensitive to the part that you feel is insulting.
You aren't bothered by jokes that portay women as sex objects. Other people may not be bothered by jokes that portray Muslims as hijackers. What's the difference?

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

>But this would require us to abandon our own frame of references, and we arent going to do that, well, whithout a help from a gun to temple in any case.
There's a word for it: empathy. If it takes a gun to induce empathy in us, what heartless automatons have we become! :roll:
>What disparaging way does it refer to Moslems
>I just don't get how this casts a bad light on Muslims at all
They say, a man who pretends to be asleep can't be woken up. Hope that's not the case with you. But let me try anyway. You see that part where it says "Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes... We would have no more hijackings"? That is what's disparaging. Do you get it?
>You aren't bothered by jokes that portay women as sex objects
Calli, you read me wrong there - by "doesn't bother me" I meant, doesn't bother me to take up that issue - I already have enough on my plate Ofcourse I don't like women being portrayed as sex-objects - that's why I mentioned it. It's just so much more prevalent, people don't even notice it.
Btw, welcome to the Saloon, have a great time here
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Nanhesru Ningyake ]

[Dave Vick]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:

You see that part where it says "Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes... We would have no more hijackings"? That is what's disparaging. Do you get it?

Actually, no. You're telling us what you find offensive not how it is offensive as was asked.

[Thomas Paul]

In fact, it's basically true. If Moslems were not permitted on airplanes there would be few if any hijackings. All recent hijackings in the US were committed by Moslems. Of course, it wouldn't be fair since the vast majority of Moslems are law abiding citizens but that doesn't make the statement any less true.

[Stevie Kaligis]

N.N, "maybe" soon you will get reply from all "javaranch elite" here. (now that's the funny part begin)
I fell out of my chair (that's not realy happen), sorry, couldn't resist
Happy Ramadhan Brother!

[Michael Ernest]

The test of a joke is whether it is funny, which is a subjective thing. Jokes that are hurtful or malicious, those are a different matter. But jokes that put someone in an unfavorable light, real or imagined: that's what most jokes do.
In the fire service, where sensitivity to others is required by law and municipal policy, a lot of jokes get passed around. The one I'd bring up here as a case in point fails Jim's standard, but suffice it to say the guy who told it to me had me laughing pretty hard. But what made it even better was what he said afterwards: "I love that joke because it makes fun of everybody but me."
To quote an authority: "When I get a hangnail, that's a tragedy. When you fall into a sewer and die, that's comedy."
The best thing you can say to a bad joke is nothing. The worst thing you can do is say "that's not funny." If you're unsure why, watch Conan O'Brien for a week. Comics love it when people are "offended" by their humor, since it is universally understood as a request for more of the same.
Nothing stops a joke teller faster than silence. If the rest of the 'audience' laughs or approves, well there you have it.
[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]

[Mapraputa Is]

I already posted this quote, but once again...
"The aim of a joke is not to degrade the human being but to remind him that he is already degraded."
George Orwell
(Michael E., is Orwell Ok as a source of quotes? Any objections? )

[Michael Ernest]

I suppose I will allow it.

[Nanhesru Ningyake]

>You're telling us what you find offensive not how it is offensive as was asked
Well, can't you infer from my previous posts? It makes an assumption that all Muslims are extremists, bent on hijacking planes - which is utterly offensive. And this is an image still fresh and painful to many sensitive people, and would make them feel alienated and violated. And it shows complete ignorance of the Muslim faith, which is insulting in itself.
>If Moslems were not permitted on airplanes there would be few if any hijackings.
You're just paranoid - that's like saying, let's keep gays off the planes because they stare at your butt when you stand in line for the toilet. (Ok, no offense to gays ofcourse - just an illustration).
>Happy Ramadhan Brother!
Thank you Dr Hairyous - I am the Diwali celebrating type - but I will join you in greeting all Muslims Happy Ramadhan

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
I don't want crap like this to be posted on the Ranch - no matter who does it.

I agree with you.
But what if the trailboss indulges in such so-called jokes?
How should one react?
Usually the trailboss' posts are enlighting but I am sorry to say that this was below his usual standard.
Anyway it reveals something about the trailboss I (and probably NN) did not expect.
Thank you for this...

[Pakka Desi]

NN and OK, I think you are reading too much into it. Here is why:
I'll give you an example which you can correlate to. Some of the best jokes in India are on Sikhs. And the best part comes when these jokes are told by Sikhs themselves. Believe me, I have many sikh friends who start the jokes like this: Ek thaa. (There was). They don't even say, "Ek sardar thaa (There was a Sikh).
BTW, you know "Oasis"? It is a cultural festival of BITS, Pilani. I happened to enjoy that fest once and the joke comptt. was won by a Sikh who just said: "Do chess khel rahe they". [Two (sikhs) were playing chess."].
Now, it is very well known that Sikhs are the most hard working and prosperous comunity in India. And of course, they are NOT stupid by any means. Still, nobody feels that sikh jokes are demeaning to sikhs. But according to your theory, they should be banned too
The fact is, as said before, best jokes are almost always are at the cost of somebody, be it sikhs, poles, or blondes. There is no need to get hurt by them.
[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Pakka Desi ]

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Pakka Desi:
There is no need to get hurt by them.

I was not hurt by the so-called joke.
I am too disillusioned to be.
I just would like to know what the rules of the game are.
Too bad javaranch elite often censores and moralises posting deemed potentially offensive, and then indulges in so-called jokes and strong opinions of dubious taste which often only show the poster's own ignorance.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Nanhesru Ningyake:
It makes an assumption that all Muslims are extremists, bent on hijacking planes - which is utterly offensive.

No it doesn't. It makes no such claim at all. The claim it is making is that Bill Clinton wants to look at naked women on airplanes.
:roll:

[Pakka Desi]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
No it doesn't. It makes no such claim at all. The claim it is making is that Bill Clinton wants to look at naked women on airplanes.
:roll:

Well, although the punch line is on Bill clinton,
I think, the joke is at the cost of all the three: Muslims, Naked women, and Bill Clinton. In the order of appearance.
In fact, since the punch like is NOT on muslims, it might be more hurting to muslims. Because it makes the assumption (that muslims == terrorists) more sticky. Same with women. The jokes assumes (and also assumes that evrybody know this) that women are sex objects. Since there is no joke there, it is true (as per the joke text, not me ). These two things are the premises on which the joke is built.
And since the punch line is on BC, may be it is not hurting to BC... For it is a joke after all.

[Thomas Paul]

Just to clarify, within the last 10 years how many American airliners have been hijacked by someone who was not a Moslem?

[Pakka Desi]

Well, I know abt India. Just last month a plane was hijacked by Non-muslim (I think he was hindu but imns). And then long ago there was the Kanishka episode. Some Sikh millitants exploded Air India plane (400+ people) over the atlantic.
So yes, there have been hijackings not done by muslims. So what is it that you are trying to convey?

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Just to clarify, within the last 10 years how many American airliners have been hijacked by someone who was not a Moslem?

If Muslims are not welcome in this forum plz. state it plainly.
Otherwise plz. stop posting nonsense.
[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: OMAR KHAN ]

[Michael Ernest]

Take serious issues to the JavaRanch forum.

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
Take serious issues to the JavaRanch forum.

It is not serious.
It is just a joke, isn't it?

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

If Muslims are not welcome in this forum plz. state it plainly.
Otherwise plz. stop posting crap.
Do you think that being a Catholic makes you superior?

I never said that Moslems are not welcome. Why are you so defensive? Are we not allowed to ask a question because it might offend someone?
Back to the joke:
The writer doesn't say that all Moslems are extremists. The writer says that if we kept all Moslems off the planes then we would also keep the Moslem extremists off the planes. Of course, this is pure nonsense since we know some of the hijackers were hanging out in strip bars. So then we get to the second part where the writer says that having strippers will bring business men back to air travel. This part should be offensive to airline stewardesses who aren't on the plane just to entertain and hand out drinks. So we now can reach the conclusion that the writer is a sexist jerk who is using Moslems as an excuse to see naked women on airplanes. Not the least bit funny. Then we see the signature. Bill Clinton, the president who couldn't keep his zipper up, is the author. This isn't an insult to Moslems or stewardesses or businessmen. It is an insult to Bill Clinton who is looking for an excuse to leer at naked women.

[Michael Ernest]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

It is not serious.
It is just a joke, isn't it?

I'm sure you find your own petulance very charming.