Concept of "time" in different languages

[Mapraputa Is]

I read that people understand abstract concepts, "time" one of them, metaphorically, in terms of something more concrete. In English this "more concrete" is space. Time is often understood as a container, in which events happen, or a place "at" which they happen. Hence, we have
in 1999
at 7.00 - to me this suggest more localized volume of space compared to "in".
not sure what "on" Monday means, though...
Interesting, that in Russian this is in in all three cases.
So what about other languages? Are spatial prepositions used? Which of them? Come to think about, grammatically prepositions aren't needed, we can say "it happened 1999" or "tomorrow 7.00" and there is no ambiguity. In this case prepositions are not as much a grammatical device, as a device of our way of thinking about time.
How universal is this "time = space" vision?
[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I read that people understand abstract concepts, "time" one of them, metaphorically, in terms of something more concrete. In English this "more concrete" is space. Time is often understood as a container, in which events happen, or a place "at" which they happen. Hence, we have
in 1999
at 7.00 - to me this suggest more localized volume of space compared to "in".
not sure what "on" Monday means, though...
Interesting, that in Russian this is in in all three cases.
So what about other languages? Are spatial prepositions used? Which of them? Come to think about, grammatically prepositions aren't needed, we can say "it happened 1999" or "tomorrow 7.00" and there is no ambiguity. In this case prepositions are not as much a grammatical device, as a device of our way of thinking about time.
How universal is this "time = space" vision?
[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]

In Hindi, there is no preposition before time. Exa: Kal 11:00 Baje Tum Mujhse Milna.
Kal - Tomorrow
Baje - time
Tum - you
Muhjse - me
Milna - meet
Meet me tomorrow at 11:00.
How universal is this "time = space" vision?
In eastern UP (a state in India) bike is refred as femine gender and in western UP it is refred as male.
Eastern UP:
Bike Khadi Hai. => bike is standing.
Western UP:
Bike Khada Hai => bike is standing.
One more interesting thing, in Hindi tomorrow and yesterday are denoted by same word Kal. It is the tense which describes if you are talking abt tomorrow or yesterday.
But for space we use preposition "Mey/Par"
Kal 4:00 Baje Ghar Mey/Par Milna.
(meet me tomorrow at 4:00 in home.)
So I think in Hindi it space which is container and time is nothing but a mark in that container.

[Mapraputa Is]

Thank you, Ravish!
One more interesting thing, in Hindi tomorrow and yesterday are denoted by same word Kal.
But then what Kal means in Hindi -- something like "a day next to today" -- in whatever direction (past, future)?

[R K Singh]

Kal means both Yesterday and tomorrow.
It is the tense in the sentance which tell wwther its tomorrow or yesterday.
Main Tumse Kal Mila Tha.
I met you yesterday.
Main Tumse Kal Miluga.
I will meet you tomorrow.
[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Ravish Kumar ]

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
But then what Kal means in Hindi -- something like "a day next to today" -- in whatever direction (past, future)?

Yes ..
It is also used for sound of river.
Nadi Kal-Kal Kar Bahte Hai
River flows with [put sound of river, in english] sound.
Dont get confused

[Mapraputa Is]

I just read an interview with a translator, who translated a part of Rig Veda. He said "he came out of this job with completely different vision and hearing". He gave up his own poetry, and what worse, the whole Russian poetry stopped to exist for him for several years. Except for Pushkin.
Now I am hijacking my own thread!

[Jim Yingst]

He gave up his own poetry, and what worse, the whole Russian poetry stopped to exist for him for several years.
So, what was the down side?

[Mapraputa Is]

Jim, this was damn funny but my point was there is no "down side" in expanding your horisons

[Thomas Paul]

Well, there's certainly no down side to abandoning Soviet poetry. I mean how many odes to the hard working people's tractor can one endure?

[Mapraputa Is]

By the way, I heard that some people in this forum know Italian, yet they preferred to leave the original question of this thread unanswered.

[Jim Yingst]

Yeah, my memory of it is rather rusty now, and I don't trust myself to get the details right. Particularly regarding prepositions, which often seem to follow rather unpredicable rules in different languages. They are such short and frequently-used words that they easily acuire new idiomatic uses in various specific contexts. I suppose I could rent a few Italian movies to watch and revive the old neural pathways (this usually seems to work pretty well) but that would take effort.

[Michael Matola]

Andiamo!
Subito piano!
Allegro ma non troppo!

[Mapraputa Is]

By the way, I read that some people in this forum know Finnish, yet they preferred to leave the original question of this thread unanswered.
I did get information that in Dutch it's also "in"

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
By the way, I read that some people in this forum know Finnish, yet they preferred to leave the original question of this thread unanswered.
I did get information that in Dutch it's also "in"

Would you like to know abt Hinglish

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I did get information that in Dutch it's also "in"

Well, in Dutch it's 'in 1999', 'om 7:00' and 'op maandag' which can basically be translated as 'in 1999', 'around 7:00' and 'on Monday'.
The funny this is, that 'om' means 'around', but the meaning is not 'give or take a few minutes', it means '7:00 exact'. The English form 'at 7:00' is more to the point I guess.
kind regards
[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: Jos Horsmeier ]

[Shura Balaganov]

Since you asked.... in Belorussian, it is also all the same (and sometimes they use "�" instead of "y", which is called "y karotkae"
y 1999
y 7 gadzin
y Panyadzelak
I'm almost positive it is the same in Ukranian, and possibly in Polish (anyone?)...
Shura

[Mapraputa Is]

Thank you everybody.
I figured, it must be similar in European languages.
Ravish, what is "Hinglish"?
I wonder how it is in Chinese, Chinese has some peculiar system of verb tenses, but I did not get into it yet. Roseanne said that in some cases you can use prepositions or not to use them, and in some cases you must use them.

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:

Ravish, what is "Hinglish"?

You are laughing ?? It is a very serious matter and very popular language
It is unoffcial national language of The Great India.
Everyone speaks, understand Hinglish. Everything is in Hinglish now. Pick anything.. talk shows, movies, songs, communication in home or in office... list is endless.
AW Hinglish => Hindi + English
there are some other version of Hinglish also like Tamlish, Telgulish ...
I think british are paying now the price of using English here

[Jim Yingst]

Ravish, what is "Hinglish"?
Most likely, a mixture of Hindi and English. The term "Spanglish" in the US is used for what happens when hispanic kids start freely mixing English and Spanish. I assume it's the same basic idea.
By amusing coincidence, I'm currently reading a book in which the main character (named "Zhang", another coincidence) often speaks what he calls "Chinglish". It's science fiction, so perhaps no one in the real world uses this term - but I had been tempted to ask Roseanne about it anyway. Since all these concepts now seem to be intersecting in this thread, I felt I had to mention it.

[Lalooprasad Yadav]

In English this "more concrete" is space. Time is often understood as a container, in which events happen, or a place "at" which they happen.

A year is a container. It contains a collection of months and days, hence "in 1999". 29 January 2003 is a single object of it's type (day) hence "on 29 th January". Similar rules apply to hours, minutes etc.