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overwhelmed

 
Greenhorn
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Hi; I took it upon myself to learn Java using only books, and have the jdk1.3 kit. I've started to run programs provided by two textbooks but they are bloody complicated to follow.
What is the best way to learn Java without all the mathematics used in examples? Right now I have lots of time and dont mind working, but the books seem to complicate basic concepts.
I want to learn Servlet programming to become marketable quickly and need to focus my study in that direction.
Sorry I could not pose the question more intelligently. thanks- write back soon.!!!
john werner
 
Ranch Hand
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I've found "Java : An Introduction to Computer Science and Programming" by Walter Savitch to be outstanding in terms of clarity in explanation of basic concepts. It's an introductory java text that really is introductory.
He outlines one idea at a time and provides sample programs to illustrate the concept at hand (without getting bogged down in a load of extraneous material that hasn't yet been covered).
I'd previously done a couple of programming courses focussing on algorithm design, deskchecking, control structures etc, so the first few chapters were a bit of a refresher. However, I found that it really came in at my level, in terms of a basic introductory java text.
For me it's been a great starting point - a good foundation for further study.
regards
Rowan


Originally posted by John Werner:
Hi; I took it upon myself to learn Java using only books, and have the jdk1.3 kit. I've started to run programs provided by two textbooks but they are bloody complicated to follow.
What is the best way to learn Java without all the mathematics used in examples? Right now I have lots of time and dont mind working, but the books seem to complicate basic concepts.
I want to learn Servlet programming to become marketable quickly and need to focus my study in that direction.
Sorry I could not pose the question more intelligently. thanks- write back soon.!!!
john werner


 
Ranch Hand
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Originally posted by John Werner:
Hi; I took it upon myself to learn Java using only books, and have the jdk1.3 kit. I've started to run programs provided by two textbooks but they are bloody complicated to follow.
What is the best way to learn Java without all the mathematics used in examples? Right now I have lots of time and dont mind working, but the books seem to complicate basic concepts.
I want to learn Servlet programming to become marketable quickly and need to focus my study in that direction.
Sorry I could not pose the question more intelligently. thanks- write back soon.!!!
john werner


You know the saying "You have to walk before you can run".
Maybe your trying to start off running. Before studying Java I knew four programming languages--but I started from the basics. The most incredible book I have found so far to get started with Java is "Just Java" by Peter vander Linden. ISBN number 0130105341. It is the best place to start and you can go on from there.
Good Luck!
 
Trailboss
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Have you looked at http://www.javaranch.com/cattledrive.html ??
 
Greenhorn
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Take a look at Baldwin's tutorials - should cover everything you need.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7077/scoop/onjava.html
 
Greenhorn
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Even, I have similar problem. I have been in software field for 4 years but I don't know much about OOPS and I have been trying to learn Java for the past few months with whatever time and effort I can devote and I can't say I am on the way to success. I started with the 'Complete Reference' by Patrick Naughton then tried 'Java: How to' by Dietel and again recently 'Thinking in Java'. Well, I can't say I haven't learnt a bit but I have seen lot of my time getting wasted because of this switching of books trying to find the perfect author, and now when I browse the topics being discussed on this Forum, I feel pity for myself, because still there are so many basic concepts, I do not seem to have grasped. It's not that I am of low IQ, to draw an analogy it took me less than 4 weeks to pick up Oracle from the scratch and start supporting the production system. OK, now coming to the $64000 question, what is the perfect way to learn Java? Could any of you help me with this?
Thanks
Manasi S
 
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I have been using a combination of books. It is taking me a little longer than most people maybe, but I feel I am getting a pretty good understanding so far. I have only been working on it off and on for about a month and a half, so I have a long way to go. Java is not like the other languages and programs that I have learned. VB, ASP, HTML, JavaScript are all a good bit easier to pick up quickly and to start producing substantial work, but Java is harder than those languages, so it takes more time (or that is what I keep telling myself). Anyway, for what it is worth, the two books I am using is "Beginning Java" by Ivor Horton and "Thinking in Java" by Bruce Eckel. I like Thinking in Java for the clear explanations, and I like Beginning Java for the good examples. So I will read both chapters on a subject, say IO Streams, and then do the examples in the Beginning Java book. I like the way Ivor codes things and I have yet to find a problem with any of the examples, but his explanations can get confusing at times. That is where Bruce's explanations come in handy. He makes things much more clear. I also use Sun's tutorial as a way of hammering the ideas one more time.
 
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Patience, patience, patience....trust me it took me four tries to get certified. You just have to read, play, read, play, break a few programs, read some more, fail a test, pull your hair out, read, play some more. Eventually you'll get it, I'm bald now, but I got it...sorta...
I'm not really bald, honest...
 
Ranch Hand
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What a relief that I came across this thread. Learning Java is the only time I thought I may have a learning deficiency....
....not really but it sure is frustrating sometimes. I was on my second try and about to quit again when I came across this site and started to grasp some basics (I guess). Ryan's post hit it right on the head, though I am not certified and still green. I am glad to say that I am beyond quitting now.
Cheers and Good Luck All! Steve
 
Greenhorn
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I Agree with all of you. Coming from a non-technical background(to say the least), I have never doubted my I.Q. until java and really can't understand why it is supposed to be, "Simple." I realize this is to lure C++ developers over to the java side but, "get real," with the rest of us. Kenwell C.
 
kcayley
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From my readings I can see that in many ways Java was designed to be RAD(rapid application development), and that there is much truth to the simplicity descriptions I've often seen. Many refinements of which I have only the shallowest appreciation for nor understanding of, justify the relative use of the term, "Simple."
There is on the other side of that argument, a vast API and a considerable library of networking solutions etc. etc. to learn. This has grown nearly double since JDK1.1.*, and this multiplicity of Java's applied uses does lend itself to the legitimate assertion that Java has become a heavyweight among OOP languages. For this reason I would say it has grown to much to refer to as a, "Simple," OOP language; at least as regards any practical/professional level of skill, required for employment(from what I've been reading in the job descriptions requirements of employers at least). Ken C.
 
Greenhorn
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Hi
I can tell you after months of reading it has finally taken hold in my brain. One book I found that is really clear in the basics of Java is Java 2 Online. The book comes with access to a website and yeah the Java mentor isn't there but it's great to have ongoing discussions with other students.
The book is divided into 15 chapters with 5 lessons each. At the end of each lesson is a short quiz and 2 excercises to complete with no solution but the one you program based on the lesson just completed. Online is another quiz for each lesson along with 5 excercises for each chapter that have the solutions on the website. Take a look at it in your local bookshop or on Amazon.com believe me it's worth every penny.
 
kcayley
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Chris: Thanks I'll do that Ken C.
 
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that is java.if you see and do the work ,it is learning.
if you did the work and see it ,it is experience.
while learning you feel tough.
after certification you say that 's it. that is experience.
so you have to cross small hurdles to pass java
certification.it is not a one day batting .it is 8 months test match.
so when ever you get bored start reading or learning that is the
trick. so you should read.
you are in the middle stage,i guess.
this looks enjoyment for the guys who did java certification.
gouru.
 
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It's comforting to read about so much hardship . I have no comp sci degree, and have been a legacy programmer for 3 years. I started in April on the online tutorial, along with Jaworski's Java Certification. What I like about Jaworski's book is that his examples are complete programs, with diagnostic print statements. Some of them are complex, though, and I won't even try to understand his examples on AWT. Now I'm in RHE. I think Roberts explains things more coherently, and his example code is basic. However, he rarely puts a diagnostic print statement in his chapters' examples, so it's hard to learn by seeing. I understand program flow, and awt components,... but I don't comprehend access combinations among classes, methods, objects, and variables well enough to test. Perhaps one of the beginner's books suggested here would explain that in better detail.
The part that really makes me feel overwhelmed, though, is the 1.5 hours commute I have had for 2 years (driving me crazy!). I can't imagine working here 2 more months (moan!).
Best of luck to all! And remember that old Zest soap commercial with the mountaineer saying "Never Quit"!
 
Bartender
Posts: 612
7
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For many years i have taught c then c++ and now java, and what
i tell all my students is:

Expect to write about 3000 functions to become competent in c,

Expect to write about 10,000 functions to become competent in c++,

Expect to write about 5000 functions to become competent in java


But most people do not need to learn the entire language at once. Come up with a small project and work on it, come up with a different small project work on it, review the first project, document what you would change, come up with another project.....


Also study groups are great. Get a few people that want to learn java and will spend the same amount of time. Give different areas for each to become "experts" and help the others learn.



Steve
 
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I quite agree with the 'overwhelmed' problem here... i have been teaching programming in C and C++ -- and i took up java partly out of necessity of finding a new job and partly because i liked the OOP way of C++. I have just finished the Part I of the book
Java - The Complete Reference. I know something now( a teeny weeny bit ) but i have not worked through any examples of my own.
I just read the examples in the book and reproduced them on the paper and the machine. Right now, i have begun Beginning Java 2 by Ivor Horton just for the sake of getting more confident and working through a few examples. Any suggestions on how i should proceed and any timeframes when i can start a small project in Java? Also i would like to know if anyone is ready to let me know any outline for a small project.
 
Steven YaegerII
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Hello Shree,
I am only half way through, but the Cattle Drive is a great, self-paced orientation. Since you have C and C++ experience, you may have zipped through it already. If you are short on ideas and want something to keep you busy, I have a small project in mind that I can specify clearly. The only problem is that I couldn't offer much guidance if you got stumped by it. Email me if you want the specs; here, it would waste alot of space.
 
Anonymous
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Hey if u'll think u r the only ones suffering from the disease of studying JAVA., then include me in too.
Well to start off, I have done C and C++ before. I just started with Java a couple of weeks back. I picked up these to online books:
1. Java Tutorial
2. Thinking in Java.
The first one is pretty simple as far as i have reached till now.
Well, the seccond is really a great one, though complicated at the same time, it really makes u think of the Java language by applying the concepts of OOPs. thats what i like bout it. Infact I have printed out an entire 400pgs. of it for my references. Sounds crazy eh? haha.
any way if i decide to go in for buying any books, well maybe i'll go for some Java Cert. books. or an Java Swing one probably.
till den,
adios...
ak.
 
Anonymous
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Hey, you think YOU are crazy for printing out 400 pages of Bruce Eckels (www.bruceeckel.com) Thinking in Jave book? I printed out the whole lot,which was like 1150 or so pages...but then again..I did this at the office hehehe. A very nice book to start Java with is also Sams Teach yourself Java 2 Online which has a nice messageboard where students and mentor help other students with questions from the book/exercises and there are more exercises online..recommendable )
Patrick
 
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I can't agree more with all of you. I've been going thru this same phase for the past many days. I've tried different books and finally settled on one book - A Programmer's Guide To Java Certification by Khalid A. Mughal and Rolf W. Rasmussen. Fact of the matter is that I've always felt intimidated by the other books while I find this book pretty comfortable for a beginner. An added advantage is that while learning Java, you can prepare for the certification too, at the same time.
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