[females only] PMS

[Mapraputa Is]

I *did* say "females only", didn't I??
Actually, I am interested in non-female opinions also, but what's the best way to attract their attention if not to frame your thread as "females only"?
When I first read about PMS, I thought that's a male version of urban legend. I mean, no men¹ can ever admit that his female friend can be more complicated than a vacuum-cleaner. Male's mental model of females is one of a state machine. You feed her "A", you get "B". Forever. You feed her "B", you get "C", If you do not, @#$% -- females have no logic! PMS! Hormones!
But AAAAAAnyway. By this point of my life, I accumulated significant experience in dealing with females, which is to say I have (naturally) a few female friends and I happily worked in 100%-70% female environment.
PMS has never been a problem.
I mean, I would believe women are more open to each other? How is it that PMS problem has never been discussed??? Is it that PMS makes females particularly aggressive toward males (only), so we (girlfriends) cannot even notice anything??? I learnt by this moment that men often *have* to deal with this PMS thing, Ok. But how is it that *I* do not? Why all females I can think about are perfectly understandable without any calendar calculations...
Any female who experienced PMS (or not) and can put some light (or not) is welcome...
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1) there are exceptions.

[Mohanlal Karamchand]

Is it that PMS makes females particularly aggressive toward males

PMS is evol. Aggression towards male is evol.
Is this pines envy ?
Pliss read the holy box send to joush.
It say pines envy is evol.

[Michael Morris]

When I first read about PMS, I thought that's a male version of urban legend. I mean, no men1 can ever admit that his female friend can be more complicated than a vacuum-cleaner. Male's mental model of females is one of a state machine. You feed her "A", you get "B". Forever. You feed her "B", you get "C", If you do not, @#$% -- females have no logic! PMS! Hormones!
I think males wish for a state machine, something predictable. But how boring would life be if you wonderful creatures of the feminine persuasion didn't mystify us?
My wife had pretty bad PMS and admitted it. At first, I chalked it up to a psychological phenomenon, that is your mind tells you you're going to be bitchy because it's that time of the month. But as the years wore on that seemed not to be a viable hypothesis. My wife during pregnancy was like a pefect angel. Maybe that's why we had five kids. She had a hysterectomy in December after almost bleeding to death (her hemoglobin got down to less than half of normal). No more PMS, no more kids, but she's close to being a perfect angel without being pregnant.
Why don't women portray symptoms of PMS around women peers? Most of us can hide the things that are bothering us in social situations outside the home. It's just easier to blow off steam at home and unfortunately it's usually our spouses who get the brunt of it. No different when a man comes home after a bad day at work. A woman with PMS probably wants to be comforted in some way by her spouse and when he doesn't understand she reacts by crying or getting angry or whatever her pesonality dictates.

[Richard Hawkes]

I guess some women are effected more than others.
To be honest I rarely notice PMS symptons. Most women have never spoken to me about it or acted particularly weird, but two of my previous girlfriends used to get really depressed and start crying at the strangest things, once a month (an effect of my special kind of love maybe :confused , used to scare me! My previous flatmate warned me and the other guy that she gets all moody around the time she "has the painters in". She confessed that during these periods she gets really tearful watching Gillette adverts, especially when there's baby hugging involved.

[John Dunn]

females only???
Well, like I always say to myself:
"Blessed are thou among women..."
BTW, there aren't enought women in technology to make this even a huge discussion,
and since I didn't want any ladies to get too lonely I decided to stop in and help any "damsels in distress"... Platonically of course, as I have been and remain a devoted husband. (but do see my great book suggestion, below)
Why all females I can think about are perfectly understandable without any calendar calculations...
Cause your an Alpha-Femaleand the ladies know not to step out of line, in your presence.
In addition: It is proven that women will change there menstrual patterns to coincide with one another when they are placed together for extended periods of time. Menstrual Cycle Synchronization(i.e. dormitories, sports teams, or close-knit groups of friends) How COOL is this!!!???
So ~MAYBE~ - and it is just a hypothesis, (but a good one too) - maybe all the women around you are PMS-ing together, as per your (Map's) schedule and no one notices anything, cause you all in tune and on the same page???
There are large portions devoted to menstruation in Natilie Angier's book:
Woman, an intimate geography You can read it if it gets too boring in here...
(Angier, is a Pulitzer Prize winning author.) This mouth-watering book goes the various parts of a woman's body in very poetic, clever and entertaining ways. She is very "Maureen Dowd-esque", so its kind of fun & wise-assy. She devotes entire chapters to the ovary, the egg, the clitoris, the breast, breast milk, hormones, estrogen, periods, the uterus. Each chapter is pretty mutually exclusive of the others and are about 15-30 pages long, so the book is a good 'tweener'. (I tend to read a couple of chapters here and there between the other books, as a break.)
I haven't read the chapter on hormones yet, so I may be back.
=====
Get this: when women breast-feed after giving birth there is a hormone that causes the uterus to contract so it stops bleeding and heals faster.
(Amazing, huh?)
Angiers writes about studies done to understand just why women bleed and why women go through a menstrual cycle. For our ancient relatives, it was actually not so advantageous, from first looks, to be bleeding each month. So the question is 'why' was this happening. Why not dislodge the 'unused egg', etc as a solid?? Why is the uterus the only self-cleaning organ that must bleed?? Studies look into whether or not the bleeding was some sort of cleansing or if it was some sort of cleaning mechanism to rid the body of potential illnesses to such a delicate organ. ETC, ETC. I don't think they know yet.
As for menstrual synchronization, apparently there are pheromones that are emitted that cause females to give off signals to either speed up her cycle or hold it off. >>>For some animals it is better for them to all raise their young at the same time so they can pool their resources.
She talks about the breast and how humans are the only member of the primate family whose breast are enlarged outside of lactating. So the question begs: Is this a genetic abnormality that made it into the species?? Bigger breasts don't produce more milk then smaller ones. Larger breasts serve no specific use biologically over smaller breasts. But she does admit that everyone loves 'em and enjoys 'em, so maybe that is a big reason they are around.
She talks about the condition where women are born genetically male, but have the anatomy of a woman. AND because they are missing some enzyme or some hormone, they end up with larger breasts, more height, and often are found working as models. So here they are: models of female perfection, yet they can't menstrate. Go figure! (no pun intended.)
Is it that PMS makes females particularly aggressive toward males (only), so we (girlfriends) cannot even notice anything???
The above book has a chapter on female aggession too. (I haven't gotten to that one, yet)
By this point of my life, I accumulated significant experience in dealing with females, uhh, so have most of the men...
I would believe women are more open to each other? And sometimes meaner too. Men tend to be more direct in their conflicts/battles with one another and when its over its over. So its not uncommon for guys to punch one another in the nose and then go out for a beer afterwards and get back onto to business as usual. Woman on the other hand tend to be more subversive and cunningly ruthless in their battles. I bet there is something on this in that book you mentioned about how Men & Women communicate.

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Oh yeah, as for my original claim: you would not believe how many times guys have come to me, (or me to them), and said something to the effect:
"She was being SOOO unreasonable that I was getting ready to can her and then realize that it was only pms. GOOD THING I DIDN'T DITCH HER!!! whew!!"
And my strategy: >>>> Figure out when the next period comes and 'Suck it up' and treat her like a queen anyway. It's not always easy, but more often than not, she'll LOVE you for it. IMO, it works, man"
"Good Idea! Thanks, Dude!!"
You see Map, the ends justify the means. Everyone is happy!!!

[John Dunn]

since I didn't want any ladies to get too lonely I decided to stop in and help any "damsels in distress"...
MM & RH - great minds think alike.

[Richard Hawkes]

Of course they could just be nuts
I was reading the sample pages from this book (on account of me being so busy today):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345379721/ref=pd_sim_books_1/104-2208415-3601514?v=glance&s=books - That's Not What I Meant!: How Conversational Style Makes or Breaks Your Relations With Others
The first example -
Woman "Do you want to go to my sisters?"
Man "Okay"
Woman "Are you sure you want to go?"
Man "What the @#!$!...?"
Now what the woman says is completely irrational to my mind (and the husband's reaction seemed so to her) yet the woman explains that she honestly *wasn't* hinting that she wanted to go to her sisters!?! I found that very hard to believe yet if this is true of these types of exchanges imagine the implications! Throw the notion of PMS in there and boom!
I'm going to go out and buy "Men are from Mars..." before its too late.
[ July 01, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]

[John Dunn]

Some awesmoe sites on the subject:
For the ladies:The Real Meaning of B-I-T-C-H
For the men: (looks to be a great book!!!)
PMS: A Guy's Roadmap
A Bitch Forum for Bitches by Bitches:
Bitch Forum - for woman rants about their PMS (Map, you gotta check this out!!!)

[Randall Twede]

ok heres a good one. i was chatting with my friend and she was not acting very affectionate. i jokingly said/thought i wonder if its that time of month. that resulted in a lol from her. the next morning it was....
your so mean, etc etc. im not sure if it was just coincidence or an educated guess...i do know one thing. i didnt cause it :roll:

[Mapraputa Is]

Richard: Now what the woman says is completely irrational to my mind (and the husband's reaction seemed so to her) yet the woman explains that she honestly *wasn't* hinting that she wanted to go to her sisters!?! I found that very hard to believe yet if this is true of these types of exchanges imagine the implications! Throw the notion of PMS in there and boom.
And I found it very hard to believe that what she said is hard to believe! She explained on the page 22 that she did not want to *make* her husband to go, she wanted to know if he wants or not. When his first answer sounded unclear, she asked again. How come this doesn't make sense? What is so irrational in it? Ok, what would be a male version of the same conversation? You got an invitation from your relatives, and you want to know if your girlfriend wants to go or not. What is more rational way of inquiring?

[Randall Twede]

well, if it was a man he wouldnt hint that he wanted to go. he would say something like

hey babe, my sister wants us to come over and i really want to go, do you want to go?

or
my sister wants us to come over and i really dont want to....do you?
at least i would

[Paul Stevens]

What part of okay did she not understand?

[John Dunn]

A good way to see the differences in how men & women approach situations is to watch HBO's "Sex in the City" with a mixed crowd.
I watched an episode once where someone's mom died and I found one of the main woman to be completely unreasonable and annoying & the rest of them unrealistic, and when I compared notes to a friend she said the episode made her cry b/c she thought they were being such good friends and that the woman [in question] was just going thru her emotions!!! :roll:
I know that Sex In The City is a well-made show, has good actors, is well-written, and has won awards but I have turned it off and thought, "how does that stay on the air!!???". ~MAYBE~ that is what women think when they watch Professional Football. I do have more compassion for women on Sundays, now.

[Kevin Thompson]

How exactly can you tell who is a woman here?

[John Dunn]

Kevin:How exactly can you tell who is a woman here?
socratic irony
n : admission of your own ignorance and willingness to learn while exposing someone's inconsistencies by close questioning
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The men are the ones who really think they are the experts here.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: John Dunn ]

[Mapraputa Is]

Paul: What part of okay did she not understand?
There are many ways to say "okay". And meaning of "okay" can be quite different. Do you agree with this? She was afraid, that her husband might not really want to go, but say "okay" for not to start an argument or whatever other reason. So she wanted to make sure. This is irrational? And to yell at her instead of asking for explanations is rational? Are you serious?
This concept of women's irrationality starts to bother me. If you do not understand something, does it automatically means that the other party is irrational? Looks like usurpation of rationality to me. :roll:

[Paul Stevens]

Map I think you are an exception and not the rule.
Here is how many women treat this.
1. Man answers no big fight takes place.
2. Man answers okay. Woman pesters with the are you really sure for several minutes.
3. Woman accepts the okay. They go then she brings up the ole. If you didn't want to go, you should have just said so. (see 1 above)
4. Woman accepts the okay. Doesn't matter whether a good or bad time is had.
5. So to avoid option 1. The answer is okay even if he doesn't want to go.

[Randall Twede]

Map has a point, anything can have multiple meaning depending on tone of voice etc.

[John Dunn]

There are many ways to say "okay". And meaning of "okay" can be quite different. Do you agree with this? Yes. I also believe that body language and facial expressions communicate a lot in addition to words and tone.
This concept of women's irrationality starts to bother me. IMHO, Think you may be missing our point. women's irrationality might be too extreme. I'd say men - (that I know) - laugh about there women to blow off steam and to just brush it off. I don't think any of REALLY believe women are irrational, but rather hmmm... culturally different. It is so funny to look at them through our eyes. The 'irrational' side (for lack of a better word) that we speak of here is also responsible for the woman we see when a little boy scrapes his knee or the little girl needs help with her doll. The tenderness that we get when we need a bit of comfort.
I think what women should be on the look out for is the sweet talking O.J. Simpson-like charmers who are control-freaks!!!

[Mapraputa Is]

IMHO, Think you may be missing our point. women's irrationality might be too extreme. I'd say men - (that I know) - laugh about there women to blow off steam and to just brush it off. I don't think any of REALLY believe women are irrational, but rather hmmm... culturally different. It is so funny to look at them through our eyes.
Something is wrong in this universe. Is this all American men can dream about? Is this called "love"? Am I spoiled? I used to have very close relationship with a man, why on the earth would I laugh about him... I cannot imagine saying that it's funny to look at him through my eyes. He did have some well, irrational traits, but who doesn’t? I am sure I have them also. Their nature is personal, I believe, and has little to do with gender. I hear a lot of complains from women about their husbands too, (unfortunately it's not funny at all, and I do not want to post them here), but the absence of love is pretty clear in this cases. People simply try to survive each other. :roll:
If I can discuss my boyfriend/husband/partner/whatever with other women and laugh, this means I feel closer to them than to him, and this means there is no love. Probably Ok for transitory relationship, otherwise...
Hm... Maybe a new definition of love was just born: love is when you do not see your loved one as "culturally different" any more...
[ July 06, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]

[John Dunn]

Something is wrong in this universe. Is this all American men can dream about?
Are you saying that America is the Universe??
If I can discuss my boyfriend/husband/partner/whatever with other women and laugh, this means I feel closer to them than to him, and this means there is no love.
Wow, IMHO, you're being pretty hard on yourself.
Perhaps the key is the underlying intentions. If one laughs about the spouse in order to flirt with someone, or to gain closeness, then yes you are correct but laughing about the spouse is not an absolute:
For example, I'm thinking of the time a couple of months ago that I was sitting with my Mom, Aunt, sisters and sister-in-law in the hospital, (when the wife was still preggers and in excrutiating pain), and my Mom joked that I was probably glad I didn't have to give birth. Suddenly the conversation morphed into the ladies talking about how their husbands could NEVER handle that kind of pain; and they proceeded to laugh about their husband's complaining about being sick. I must admit it was funny to hear the stories about my dad, uncle, brother and brother-in-laws. There was no mercy to be had. I just thought, "good thing I'm here..."
Hey, call me crazy, but it sounded like they loved their partners, even though they were howling with laughter. I think they were laughing at how they 'loved' their spouse's imperfections.
Some laughter is healthy and can alleviate the day-to-day stresses and especially the stresses that get thrown on our doorsteps. In fact, I think a relationship will benefit by a "healthy" dose of humor and laughter.

[Mapraputa Is]

Are you saying that America is the Universe??
Noooo... I used this rethorical device to pump in more dramatism. America is part of the Universe, so if something happened in America, it happened in the Universe also. Therefore, such a synecdochcial substitution of the Universe for America, is not logically incorrect, yet moves the discussion at cosmic scale.
[ July 07, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]

[John Dunn]

synecdochcial...
Wow, now that is some good language!!!
[ July 07, 2003: Message edited by: John Dunn ]

[Jim Yingst]

Eh? It's not even a word.

[Randall Twede]

apparently it is. the link leads to two dictionary definitions

[Jim Yingst]

I was referring to the spelling.

[Damien Howard]

I've heard men have their own version of PMS. Don't quite know how it works, but apparently we have cycles also.

[Michael Morris]

Originally posted by Damien Howard:
I've heard men have their own version of PMS. Don't quite know how it works, but apparently we have cycles also.

I am feeling a bit bloated and cranky at the moment, do you suppose ... ?

[Damien Howard]

I've also heard that women's cycles are in tune with their roommates. I wonder if that aplies to men's supposed cycles.

[John Dunn]

Map: Hm... Maybe a new definition of love was just born: love is when you do not see your loved one as "culturally different" any more...
Wow! My wife is reading my book: Paddy's Lament : Ireland 1846-1847 (A Prelude to Hatred) and she called me at work to tell me she was sorry for any laughing she did about the Irish, and she takes back everything she's aid!!! WooooWhooooo!!!

Wow, what a relief!!! I guess she loves me afterall!!! (Geez, I musta fooled another one... )
I did however remind her, ever so reluctantly..., that if she ever reads some of the books I've read on what the Southern Americans did to the African Slaves she'll be chasing me around the apartment with a baseball bat...
Oh well. Until then, I guess the motto around here will be 'Carpe Diem'!!!

[Michael Morris]

Originally posted by Damien Howard:
I've also heard that women's cycles are in tune with their roommates. I wonder if that aplies to men's supposed cycles.

Don't know about the guy thing, but I can tell you with a wife and two daughters, there are definite advantages to working late on certain nights of the month.

[Jim Yingst]

A strange factoid loosely connected to this topic: Female humans who keep male iguanas as pets report that their male iguana's behavior varies with the owner's cycle, as the iguana becomes more agressive when the owner is ovulating. Interpret this as you will...

[R K Singh]

Originally posted by Damien Howard:
we have cycles also.

I dont know abt you, but I had two bi-cycles, one racing and one simple.