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How clean is your room?

 
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My ex room mate Olena is a wonderful wonderful girl and we love each other very much. She was born in Ukraine and have been studied in the States for over eight years. She came to Germany as an exchange student, lived here for one year and went back to the State last month.
She is brilliant(pre. phD in Mathematics) and warm-hearted, we had much good time together, but, sometimes we fought against each other for...guess what, cleaness.
She cannot stand a bit dust, a single hair on the floor and everything in our apartment has to be in order. I am not a dirty person but way too far from her standard. Sometimes she felt sick about me and I was bothered a lot by her.
We did big cleaning in our dorm once a week. Before she came, another girl and me didn't have any schedule, when the dorm became dirty, we did cleaning, and we had been very happy with each other, there wasn't any problem at all. She made the once a week rule( there are three girls in our apartment, each has her own room, common kitchen and badroom) as soon as she met us. "We must....." To me it was just like a police, I thought maybe she had lived in the States for too long( It turned out not because of that...). To avoid any trouble, another girl and me obeyed her without any word.
The way she asked us to do the cleaning upsetted us very very much, and made us afraid of weekends. I bought a mop long before she came, and we used it without any problem. But she said mop was simply junk, mop could not work, we must clean our floor with cloth, hot water and soap. That's a lot more work! That was still nothing. In our kitchen, we had to draw everything out from our full-stacked cupboard and clean every corner of the cupboard with cloth, hot water and soap, once not enough, because we had to move the soap water away from the surface;...well I don't want to list her instructions in detail here. There was a week the other girl and me had exams in Monday and Olena was very kind, she did all the housework herself and that spent her the whole afternoon and half night, longer than 5 hours. You have the idea. After several weeks I was tired of the fussy weekly revolution in our kitchen and badroom, Olena and me had a talk. Shortly put, my argue was that of course cleaness is great, a clean apartment is beautiful but we are students, your cleaness is not necessary to a student. We don't have to make our apartment like lobby in a five-star hotel. But guess what she said: do you think it's already clean??? No no no, we only do that weekly, but my mum does that daily. I faint.
As the time went by, we had debates one after another on housework issue. My idea can be concluded like below:
[LIST][*]not everyone cares about cleaness as much as she does, she doesn't have the right to force us to do this do that[*]I admit cleaness is important, but please consider that is also priority, and the priority can be different in different period of life. To me, for now, reading book is more important, doing homework is more important, programming is more important, writing is more important, having a good rest(sleeping or walking) in weekend is more important. If later I become a housewife, then maybe doing housework become more important. But for now it's just too trivial /frivilous.
Her argue was if I live all alone, it doesn't matter at all if I live my way, but I was now living with her, she cannot stand tiny dirtiness then I have to think about her. So the problem boiled down to which standard we should stick to.
(to be continued)
[ September 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ellen Zhao ]
 
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EZ to be continued)
I am anxiously waiting for the next part. This sounds like the beginning of those great erotic stories.
 
Ellen Zhao
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In my opinion, there is no absolute good thing or bad thing. She thought dirtyness is disgusting but I think that's not absolute. I remember when I was visiting Paris, I was dissapointed very much to see the old houses and churches in �le de la Cit� were just washed, like brand new. And, in some old small water town in south China, you can see naturally accumulated dust on the white wall of houses, they are beautiful patterns with rich colour tone and beautiful shapes after a rain, almost art! My professor of architectural photography once made a lot of pictures of those "dirty" houses. I said to her that I admit cleaness is important but in fact it's according to environment. If we are running a big public relation office then we should make everything shining, but it's our humble dorm, doesn't need to be business-like.
Her home-like feeling is also different from my home-like feeling. She said she wanted to be consistant everywhere any occasion, her office and her bedroom should be the same clean and tidy. To me, I will try to keep my public place being clean and tidy, my dorm is the only place where belongs completely to me, I don't have to bother to do things I don't love to do, my dorm is the only place I have the complete right to serve only myself, it's so precious a little place in the world which is different from anywhere else. Once I wanted to ask her, can you imagine your voice be the same when you talk to your students in classroom and when you talk to your honey in bedroom? But finally I didn't ask.
And she always tried to persuad me think her way. She said when I work, if my office is not clean and tidy, my boss and college would look down upon me, I won't have chance to promote. I thanked her nice advice and I will keep my work place clean and tidy. But I don't think what she said is true. People cannot be judged merely by their appearance.
She once said, yes you might have some habbit from China, but please think where I am from, I am from USA. I was offended a little bit, but was still calm, I simply said, the girl who lived in your room before you came, was also from the States, she was not as clean as the other girl and me. What's more, she never asked us to do this do that, like you. Okay, then she said she grew up in Ukraine, people from Ukraine are very clean. I felt funny about her logic, and said, dear Olena, I prefer to take people indiviually but not group them merely by where they from. Yes, tradition might has influence to some extends, but I think clean or not has more to do with people's character, interest or so, I think there exists people from Ukraine who are not as clean as you are.
...
Well enough trivial debates, and completely meaningless. When she was leaving, there were mixed feelings in my heart. She is incredibly warm-hearted and kind, we can talk about everything openly, and because of her kindness, I always directly told her my thought, I don't have to hide anything. After our quarreling, we knew each other better, understand each other better, and became better friends. And she helped me a lot when I was busy with my study, she took care of me, she cooked for me numerous times. And she has always been a delightful and inspiring role among her friends. But the cleaning instructions from her was truely a trouble to me. We are still in touch, I just got an email from her, she says in her email, I hope you wouldn't have another clean freak room mate anytime soon... Well Olena, now I can say that I enjoyed living with you, including all the labour in kitchen and badroom, and our quarrels. life with you was not boring, that's the most important. C'est la vie.
Ellen
 
Ellen Zhao
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sorry my English is getting rusty , I hope I could refine it and add more interesting things later when I find time.
 
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
EZ to be continued)
I am anxiously waiting for the next part. This sounds like the beginning of those great erotic stories.


A perfect Anti-Climax...isn't it Eugene?
 
John Smith
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A perfect Anti-Climax...isn't it Eugene?
Yeah, I think I will never have an erection again. :roll:
 
Ellen Zhao
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Hi the gentlemen above,
let me appologize for my limited English vocabulary, but I had to look up some English-Chinese dictionary to understand what you were talking about. Then I wonder are you sure this is a proper thread to give a very specializing lecture on biology? Then I'm afraid I'm a poor pupil: not prepared, not willing to learn.
Thank you very much for your attention, anyways.

Regards,
Ellen
 
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Hi, Ellen!
Oh, your English is fine - it's just that Eugene has a dirty mind. Just gnore him like the rest of us do.
Then I'm afraid I'm a poor pupil: not prepared, not willing to learn.
Careful here; you're just going to encourage him. Unless he's still busy pursuing Thomas Paul...
Anyway, my level of housekkeping has varied greatly over the years depending on the living arrangements - i.e., depending on whether there's a housemate or girlfriend who expects a higher level of cleanliness. I'm somewhat adaptable. I'm pretty good about keeping "common areas" clean (areas that other people also use freqently), but I think I need to have one area (preferably one whole room) that I can leave in a messy state without worrying about what anyone else thinks about it. This is where I will spend most of my time.
There was also a period when I had two indoor/outdoor dogs, living in Phoenix, Arizona. (Arid desert area.) The back hard quickly turned into a big dust bowl (I did water the meager grass that was there, but the dogs always trampled it faster than it could grow, so it was a losing battle.) Frequent dusting was a necessity, but also depressing - a day or two after dusting it looked like the place had not been dusted for months. So I had to develop a more flexible attitude about what was an "acceptable" amount of dust.
 
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I think your friend is an commanding officer on cleaning. For me, even when I bathe, I wash the behind of my ear with soap and water. And I purposely wash the area under my armpit. I rub soap into my armpit and wash that area purposely. But I only wash my hair once a week. When I wash my hair, I spend 10 minutes massaging shampoo right into the scalp. And I clean my room once a month. Cause I live in a tree house. Cleanleeness, is something that I cannot understand.......the answer is in the wind.........the best way ti clean, I think in my opinion, is to put an air trap filter oin windows and whatever orifice the room has. This way u trap the dusts before they can get to settle down in your room. But if u do that, you will miss what on something. Again if u don't do that, you will also miss out on something. But it's thousand apologies. To herlp myself, I set a timer of 5 minutes. Then I got into the bath room and shower. After the timer is up, I will have to exit the batheroom no matter what. And I have to refrain from ___________. So to _________ my _________, I wash them last. It's cause they are sacred.
 
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Yes, there are some workplaces that do have a "clean desk policy" (your desk must be totally clean each night, no papers loose, no books open, no company documents in accessable places (heaven help us if the cleaner got to see a printed copy of our dress code :roll: )) In such an environment, you could easily be reprimanded, or have your career stall if you don't keep a spotless environment.
A counter argument for your room mate could be that it is unhealthy to have a "too clean" living environment. (Clean living may be tied to asthma)
[ September 13, 2003: Message edited by: Andrew Monkhouse ]
 
John Smith
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heaven help us if the cleaner got to see a printed copy of our dress code
Are you guys in Australia going through the same cycles as we are in US? You know, casual for the first 10 years, business-casual for the next 10 years, formal for the next 10, and back to casual, all over again?
 
Andrew Monkhouse
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Are you guys in Australia going through the same cycles as we are in US? You know, casual for the first 10 years, business-casual for the next 10 years, formal for the next 10, and back to casual, all over again?
It depends on where you are in Australia, but generally you only get the two extremes: either must wear suits, or anything goes. Sydney can be pretty formal, Melbourne and Perth can be more casual.
Then you get the companies that have the very strict dress codes 4 days a week, and a casual day on Friday.
One office I worked in had a casual dress code, and our clients had a formal dress code. So they tried to have as many meetings at our office as possible, since their rules said that they should dress appropriate to the environment, so they got away with casuals
 
John Smith
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It depends on where you are in Australia, but generally you only get the two extremes
I have another question for you, Andrew. I am still looking for a perfect place to live, and I already thought about Australia. What I am looking for is about 20 acres of land near the mountains and the ocean, no traffic or pollution, yet within the driving distance to some metropolitan area. Not hotter than 30 degrees Celcius during the summer, and not colder than 10 degrees during the winter. Also, I just want to be left along (you know, not bound to the society or the government in any meaningfull way). Is there any particular spot in Australia that would satisfy my critera, both geographically and culturally? If yes, how much would I expect to pay for such a peice of property?
In addition to your own opinion, can you recommend some sources of information (books, articles, web sites) where I could research that?
[ September 13, 2003: Message edited by: Eugene Kononov ]
 
Andrew Monkhouse
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Hi Eugene,
Hmmm, two issue.
  • Mountains. Australia is a very old continent, and most of our mountains have been weathered away. So they are much smaller than you get in any other part of the world. If you are hoping to go skiing, then it is actually cheaper to fly to New Zealand for a week (including air fares) than to go to an Australian ski field (obviously Australia is easier for just a weekend of skiing). Also most mountains are away from the sea (say 2 hours drive).
  • The other problem is temperature. It is rare to find a part of Australia that is close to the coast that doesn't get temperatures of about 35 in summer.

  • I would be interested in how New Zealand compares - they have some mountainous areas very close to the ocean, and I suspect they would have lower temperatures in summer.
    3 years ago, I was looking at houses 1 hour commute from Sydney. 3 bedroom, on 1 acre, right on the beach, but 1 hour ferry and train to get to Sydney (or because of the way the land was, a 2 hour drive) was around $150,000 (USD $100,000) I believe it has gone up since then - I think prices are getting up close to the half million mark. Temperatures in Sydney don't go much above 30 in Summer (32, 33), and don't go much below 10 in Winter (7,8,9). Of course if you go to the highlands or the mountains, you get much much colder.
    I believe prices in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney are likewise reasonably cheap, but I have not looked at prices there.
    If you really wanted to get away from everything, a 4 bedroom house I saw recently, mid way between Melbourne, Adelaide, and Sydney (about 10 hours drive from each) on a 20 acre block of land went for $40,000 (USD $26,000). That was about half an hour from the nearest town (large town, but still a town). That one really wouldn't suit you though - they sit at around 45 degrees for up to 3 months at a time during summer
    Regards, Andrew
    [ September 14, 2003: Message edited by: Andrew Monkhouse ]
     
    Andrew Monkhouse
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    Hi Eugene.
    Just did some quick searches. You can still get 1 acre places about 1/2 hour out of Woolongong (a city about 2.5 hours south of Sydney) for around $500,000 Australian. So I imagine larger properties would be available around there for under $1 million AUD.
    Or looking at an Australian wide property site, brought me this house in Portland. It is only 4 acres, and it probably does get colder than your minimum of 10 degrees (by the way, we are talking Celcius, and not Farenheit - it would be rare to get to 10 Farenheit anywhere in Australia ). To be honest, I am not 100% sure where Portland is, but I know that the Sydney suburban train lines go out to Lithgow where the estate agent is situated.
    Blackheath is either on the Katoomba rail line, or not far from it. And I know people commute from Katoomba to Sydney for work (long commute though: about 1.5 hours I think). And you can get property (have to build your own house) there for $320,000 (USD $200,000) for close to 100 acres. I have hiked through the Megalong valley in June - it was about 3 or 5 overnight, about 10 during the day. It does get colder in July and August though.
    Regards, Andrew
     
    John Smith
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    Thanks Andrew, that was very helpful. I promise I'll ivite you to my place when I settle in.
     
    Andrew Monkhouse
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    Hi Eugene
    Excellent! I'll have to introduce you to the many great beers we have here. (Or great wines if you are not a beer person)
    Regards, Andrew
     
    Ellen Zhao
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    Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
    Yes, there are some workplaces that do have a "clean desk policy" (your desk must be totally clean each night, no papers loose, no books open, no company documents in accessable places (heaven help us if the cleaner got to see a printed copy of our dress code :roll: )) In such an environment, you could easily be reprimanded, or have your career stall if you don't keep a spotless environment.
    A counter argument for your room mate could be that it is unhealthy to have a "too clean" living environment. (Clean living may be tied to asthma)
    [ September 13, 2003: Message edited by: Andrew Monkhouse ]


    My mother leads the division of human resource in a construction agency, we have some architect friends. I had a lot of chances to watch architects working when I was in China. I could hardly find any of their work place really tidy. Huge paper, pencils, rubbers, all shapes of rulers, scattered all over the room; books, pictures, blue prints and magazines were almost always opened and lying on desks. But all of them do very good job and my mother like them very much. And for artists who paint, I think it could be a disaster if they have to wash their colour plates each time when they pause the work but the painting remains unfinished.
    Once I heard a story that a professor in a medical school still gives lectures in her 80's, and she is unbelievable healthy, it's difficult to get her ill. Her students asked the secret of her health, she said, very simple, I just go to the dirtiest restaurant at the end of the Lane ( in Beijing dialect, lane is called Hu2 Tong0) once a week and have a meal there to keep the balance of the group of bacteria in my body, you know all of us living with bacteria, it's impossible to get rid of them, people get sick because the loss of balance of the types/groups of bacteria. Never panic if you happened to eat something dirty or have to live somewhere very dirty for one or two days, as long as your body can handle the balance, you are okay. The cleaner your habbit is, the smaller the chance is for you to survive imperfect environment. Of course this story sounds extreme. But it's true that too clean is never really a healthy thing.

    I am still looking for a perfect place to live, and I already thought about Australia. What I am looking for is about 20 acres of land near the mountains and the ocean, no traffic or pollution, yet within the driving distance to some metropolitan area. Not hotter than 30 degrees Celcius during the summer, and not colder than 10 degrees during the winter. Also, I just want to be left along (you know, not bound to the society or the government in any meaningfull way).


    20 acres of land, how big is that? Could you please tell again in m2?
    I just came back from Catalonia, a north state in Spain, of which the Capital city is Barcelona. I guess it's very very close to Eugene's criteria. You have forests with all types of plants in mountains inside or around the cities, and, no more than 15 metres away there is beach. The colour of the sea is heavenly blue, born in east coast of China, I haven't seen any sea colour remotely like that blue in Catalonia. You want snow and like skiing? No problem, they do have high mountain with thick snow on the top all year long. No terrible traffic(in summer there might be many tourists, but you can always find some other way), no pollution. The temperature could go higher than 30� during the summer, but, on beach you won't care, in forest it's always cool, and in room, cann't you just get yourself an air conditionor? In winter, it's mild but could be quite humid, be sure you can handle it. The political, economical and historical relationship between Spain and Catalonia is really complicated and to some extend, sensitive, but you are a foreigner, it's none of your business, don't worry about it. To local people, just always remember, never say "I am in Spain", but say "I am in Catalonia", that's enough. Otherwise you might hurt their emotion. Your metropolitan area is certainly Barcelona, which is FULL of places of interest, historical or modern, but has a population of only 4 million, not terribly crowd...You speak English, that gets you anywhere in the world, many Catalan-speaking people are well educated, no problem to understand you. The food there is fantastic, you get good sea food for an incredibly small price, even a lot cheaper than in China. A menu including Vorspeise, Hauptspeise and Nachspeise(sorry don't know how to call them in English) cost from 6 euro to 8 euro, but you get the similar thing for about 20 euro in Germany. In long vacation you can drive to the countries around, you always see old castles or ruins along your way ( which is very charming to me ). Andrew was talking about beer and wine, it's a shame and pity that I am serious alcohol allegy, 50 ml 7� beer is enough to kill me, I cannot tell you how about the wine and beer here. But I was told they have first class grapes in Catalonia, those who really understand wine drink wine from Catalonia; as for beer, Munich is not far away.
    If you are deadly practical, it is said that the most wealthy region in Europe is around Milan, Italy; Then comes Baden-W�rtenburg, Germany; the third richest is Catalonia. So that you see it's also not a bad place to make your career.
    It sounds like that I am a promotor of Catalonia , okay let me stop. Try it, you will like it...

    Regards,
    Ellen
    some samples which were taken several days ago:
    Beach:

    Forest on Mountain, which is right above the beach:

    [ September 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ellen Zhao ]
     
    Andrew Monkhouse
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    Hi Ellen,

    20 acres of land, how big is that? Could you please tell again in m2?


    20 acres = 81,000 square meters (roughly)
    I have not been to Catalonia - you make it sound very nice indeed.
    Regards, Andrew
     
    John Smith
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    Vermont, USA:
     
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    Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
    Then you get the companies that have the very strict dress codes 4 days a week, and a casual day on Friday.
    I just live for Hawian shirt Fridays
     
    Anonymous
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    Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
    Originally posted by Andrew Monkhouse:
    [qb]Then you get the companies that have the very strict dress codes 4 days a week, and a casual day on Friday.
    I just live for Hawian shirt Fridays[/QB]


    I always honestly thought folks who wore those colorful shirts to work on fridays are gay and they want the world to know that they are gay :roll:
     
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    Natal Brazil
     
    Jim Yingst
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    <IKK>: I always honestly thought folks who wore those colorful shirts to work on fridays are gay and they want the world to know that they are gay
    Honestly? :roll:
    FYI, people who are gay and want the world to know it generally can do so less ambiguously than by wearing colorful shirts.
    Meanwhile, there are those of us who frequently wear colorful shirts on other days, not just Friday, simply because we like colorful shirts. If some people draw incorret conclusions, I don't much care. My cute female coworkers didn't seem to think I was gar, and they're the only group whose opinion on the matter would interest me.
    [ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
     
    Sheriff
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    Originally posted by <I Killed Kenny>:
    I always honestly thought folks who wore those colorful shirts to work on fridays are gay and they want the world to know that they are gay :roll:


    You've brought up "gay" in multiple posts, to the point where it's beginning to look like a pre-occupation. Is there something you are trying to tell us? (not that there's anything wrong with that)
     
    Anonymous
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    Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
    <IKK>: I always honestly thought folks who wore those colorful shirts to work on fridays are gay and they want the world to know that they are gay
    Honestly? :roll:
    FYI, people who are gay and want the world to know it generally can do so less ambiguously than by wearing colorful shirts.
    Meanwhile, there are those of us who frequently wear colorful shirts on other days, not just Friday, simply because we like colorful shirts. If some people draw incorret conclusions, I don't much care. My cute female coworkers didn't seem to think I was gar, and they're the only group whose opinion on the matter would interest me.
    [ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]


    Dont tell me that you actually wear this kind of stuff to work

     
    Anonymous
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    Originally posted by Jason Menard:

    You've brought up "gay" in multiple posts, to the point where it's beginning to look like a pre-occupation. Is there something you are trying to tell us? (not that there's anything wrong with that)


    Nah. couple of bad experiences thats with those folks. Once I was in Hoboken, NJ dancing with a girl, goddamn this dude approached us with his girl friend i kinda got annoyed anyway we were all dancing together he started to Hit (Precisely invited to his house for a threesome with his girlfriend. he probably is a bi). Gotta punch him
    When as a teenager an old dude literally came onto me while i was travelling on a local bus. Gotta punch that dude too
     
    Jim Yingst
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    <IKK>: Dont tell me that you actually wear this kind of stuff to work
    Those pants? Never. Usually jeans. The shirt? Well, maybe, but it's kinda boring, only two colors after all... I prefer these:
    [shirt 1] [shirt 2]
    I wasn't overly impressed with Amazon's selection, really, but the above are acceptable to me.
    [ September 29, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
     
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    And you could get a sofa to match. Great camouflage if you need to catch up on sporting events instead of doing what you really oughta.
    regards
     
    Anonymous
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    Originally posted by HS Thomas:
    And you could get a sofa to match. Great camouflage if you need to catch up on sporting events instead of doing what you really oughta.
    regards


    Tom, not busting your balls but heard this joke before on Comedy Central, (Presents).
     
    Anonymous
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    Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
    <IKK>: Dont tell me that you actually wear this kind of stuff to work
    Those pants? Never. Usually jeans. The shirt? Well, maybe, but it's kinda boring, only two colors after all... I prefer these:
    I wasn't overly impressed with Amazon's selection, really, but the above are acceptable to me.
    [ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]


    Jim, I give up.
     
    HS Thomas
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    Tom, not busting your balls but heard this joke before on Comedy Central, (Presents).


    Well I hadn't!
    Here's another! The male "bird" plumage before strutting his stuff on the dance floor! For e.g. the peacock ,the capercaillies...

    early-morning mating antics of a threatened species.
    For the next few weeks male capercaillies will be strutting their stuff at dawn in the hope of attracting a willing mate.
    The spectacular mating display of the rare Highland bird is known as "lekking", and ornithologists flock to witness the capers of the capers.
    Capers are a beleaguered species and need all the help they can get during the breeding season.The male birds select a clearing in the woods know as a "lek", bristle their feathers and emit a special mating song.

    The mating song of the male has been described as beginning with a resonant rattle, continuing with a pop-like a cork being pulled from a wine bottle, followed by the pouring of a liquid out of a narrow-necked bottle and ending with the sound of knife grinding.
    The males can be very aggressive and have been known to attack deer, dogs, sheep and even humans if they are disturbed.


    This has been an interesting thread : virtues of cleanliness, travel pics, holiday wear ( I hope) to this.

    regards
    [ September 24, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
     
    Jim Yingst
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    holiday wear ( I hope)
    Well holidays too, but I was specifically talking about at work. Depends on the corporate culture at your workplace, but mine have been mostly in Arizona and California, where most companies are pretty easygoing in this department, as long as you're not in management or sales...
     
    John Smith
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    HS: This has been an interesting thread : virtues of cleanliness, travel pics, holiday wear ( I hope) to this.
    Yeah, very relaxing and pacifying.
     
    Ellen Zhao
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    Most of the pictures below were taken in high noons, I didn't bring my lens hood or UV filter so that you can see the lighting is really a problem in most of the pictures. At the day when we were in Barcelona, it was rather rather misty, I had to manipulate the pictures with some software so that at least the architectures and landscape can be seen.
    Copyright Ellen Zhao 2003. You may use these images for whatever purpose, but please do not claim they are shot by you, thanks.
    Barcelona: the palace. Seen from Monchuik

    Barcelona: Seen from Monchuik

    Barcelona: street musicians. In a lane near Catalunia Square

    Lloret in evening:


    Regards,
    Ellen
     
    Ellen Zhao
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    Tossa:










    regards,
    Ellen
    [ September 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ellen Zhao ]
     
    SJ Adnams
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    Ellen - what equipment did you use?
     
    Ellen Zhao
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    Hi Simon,
    Equipment: eyes, mind, fingers, good landscapes and a Nikon CoolPix 5700, firmware v1.1, without anything else(I think I should have brought a tripod, a lens hood and a UV filter there). The software I used to manipulate the original pics is Nikon Edit...Well I do have gimp, but just didn't want to make a fuss.
    Regards,
    Ellen
    [ September 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ellen Zhao ]
     
    Ellen Zhao
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    My favourite photos from photo.net:
    This one was taken at highnoon, which is not a good time for architectural/landscape photography in Gerneral. But it was so well done! Incredible and Amazing!!!


    Got a shock when I firstly saw this picture. I have to say the photographer is a genius. This pic simply tells too much. Also the tech. is perfect here.

    FANTASTIC lighting! One has to be an artist in blood/in soul to create such a fabulous photo. In the good old days Rembrandt would do that with his brushes and oil. Now with camera and film it doesn't take that long to create such an image but technically, I think somehow it's even more difficult than manipulating brushes and oil. I know I could never never make it.
    [ September 28, 2003: Message edited by: Ellen Zhao ]
     
    Anonymous
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    YOU ARE HIJACKING YOUR OWN THREAD, Ellen
    Are you a relation of Felix Unger, by any chance
     
    Just let me do the talking. Ahem ... so ... you see ... we have this tiny ad...
    Java file APIs (DOC, XLS, PDF, and many more)
    https://products.aspose.com/total/java
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