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Death and beyond..

 
Ugly Redneck
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Allright, I'll admit that I'm probably too young to be thinking about death and the events that surround it. But I'm still worried..
What happens after you die? I mean I understand that your physical state terminates but what about the mind / soul? There is more to a human body than just body .. the mind and the soul. It death just another state of consciousness that we are unable to comprehend as of now? If so will my consciousness be able to recognize the heat that engulfs my physical body as I am being cremated?
 
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Let me know when you figure out the stuff...
Vasu
 
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If so will my consciousness be able to recognize the heat that engulfs my physical body as I am being cremated?
Are you asking if your consciousness will experience the pain of the burning body? Is that the source of your worry? Or are you questioning the general hypothesis that the mind/soul exist after death?
 
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Pain is transmitted by nerve cells and once they are dead then you can feel no pain. We see this in people who are alive with conditions that cause nerve cell death. So if you are wondering whether you will feel pain after death then the answer is no, not in the same sense that we feel pain when we are alive.
As to the whether there is an afterlife, apparently it isn't one in which you will be able to interact with the living in a way in which the living will notice.
 
Paul McKenna
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EK:
Are you asking if your consciousness will experience the pain of the burning body? Is that the source of your worry? Or are you questioning the general hypothesis that the mind/soul exist after death?
PMc:
Well, Yes in a way! Also why wont we feel the pain of our physical bodies being burnt? It may not be the same pain as that which is felt when a cigarette butt touches your skin but the pain of losing a physical object which has housed your soul for 80 odd years. And wont that pain be worse?
Does afterlife exist? There have been cranks who claim near-death experiences. Any idea about the validity of these? I guess I've got to do more research on this.
 
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As to the whether there is an afterlife, apparently it isn't one in which you will be able to interact with the living in a way in which the living will notice.


Unless you are Patrick Swayze.
[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ernest Friedman-Hill ]
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
It may not be the same pain as that which is felt when a cigarette butt touches your skin but the pain of losing a physical object which has housed your soul for 80 odd years. And wont that pain be worse?

Would the pain of watching it rot away or be eaten by worms be less?
 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Pain is transmitted by nerve cells and once they are dead then you can feel no pain. We see this in people who are alive with conditions that cause nerve cell death. So if you are wondering whether you will feel pain after death then the answer is no, not in the same sense that we feel pain when we are alive.


I don't need to worry about burning in the hell anymore
[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Mani Ram ]
 
John Smith
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I don't need to worry about buring in the hell anymore
Not so fast. It's a soul that burns in hell, not the body. Furthermore, there is such a such as an emotional pain, in addition to physical pain.
 
Paul McKenna
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Would the pain of watching it rot away or be eaten by worms be less?


You are avoiding the core issue. I couldnt care less about how I lose my body.. worms / aliens / mutant ninja turtles. What worries me is what happens to my feelings when I do lose my body. Do they still exist?
And just to poke a little bit more, how does anyone actually know that the nerve cells are no longer functional after death? A while ago I read that if you were to put a gun to side of your head and pull the trigger you would be proclaimed dead scientifically a couple of hours later. Thats because the heart stops pumping blood after a couple of hours. That would mean that the nerve cells are still active but in any case the brain which interprets these signals is now absent.
[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Paul McKenna ]
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
And just to poke a little bit more, how does anyone actually know that the nerve cells are no longer functional after death?

A friend of mine is in a wheelchair. You could stick a fork in his leg and he wouldn't feel it. His nerve cells are dead. No pain. Get it?
 
Paul McKenna
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Pain doesnt have to be felt by nerve cells to have its impact. If men were to witness another man getting socked in the box on TV dont they cringe as if they were ones socked. Similarly, even if I were to be paralyzed below the waist and even if I couldnt feel anything physically when someone sticks a fork in my leg I would still feel fear, wouldn't I?? So perhaps fear in some form or to some extent is pain.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
Similarly, even if I were to be paralyzed below the waist and even if I couldnt feel anything physically when someone sticks a fork in my leg I would still feel fear, wouldn't I?? So perhaps fear in some form or to some extent is pain.


But once you realized that there was no pain wouldn't the fear go away?
 
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
What happens after you die? I mean I understand that your physical state terminates but what about the mind / soul?
Your spirit will be sucked into the ever-expanding cosmos and assimilated into the universal consciousness that is made up of all the bodyless souls from Earth and beyond. While the universe heads towards a spluttering death, this universal mind increases in size and energy; when the universe finally dies the universal mind will will itself to explode in a flash of energy, heat and matter causing cosmic rebirth.
Or something ...
[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
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Your spirit will be sucked into the ever-expanding cosmos and assimilated into the universal consciousness that is made up of all the bodyless souls from Earth and beyond. While the universe heads towards a spluttering death, this universal mind increases in size and energy; when the universe finally dies the universal mind will will itself to explode in a flash of energy, heat and matter causing cosmic rebirth.
Can you rhyme these thoughts?
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
Can you rhyme these thoughts?
Why, do you have a tune in mind?
 
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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Your spirit will be sucked into the ever-expanding cosmos and assimilated into the universal consciousness that is made up of all the bodyless souls from Earth and beyond. While the universe heads towards a spluttering death, this universal mind increases in size and energy; when the universe finally dies the universal mind will will itself to explode in a flash of energy, heat and matter causing cosmic rebirth.


This is the plot, more or less, of one of my favorite Isaac Asimov stories; although for the life of me I can't remember the title right now.
 
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For those really interested in some wonderful theories about the Time and Space and Creation and Cosmos, I suggest the Stephen Baxter books Manifold Time, Manifold Space and Manifold Origin. I liked Time best, but they're all really LARGE books - they deal with things on the grandest of scales.
Joe
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:
This is the plot, more or less, of one of my favorite Isaac Asimov stories; although for the life of me I can't remember the title right now.
Can't think of the one you mean either. I remember a short story of his where matter was just appearing from nowhere in ever increasing amounts. The characters of the story theorised that people in a parallel universe were sending it to unbalance both universes (because there would be less and more matter/energy in each universe respectively as more was transported). This would eventually cause some kind of rift and huge a rush of energy between the two universes (big bang?) and hence a two new universes. They calculated that it would happen around the time the universe was expected to naturally retire. I think that's how it went anyway, I read it yonks ago. Sounds like a Star Trek plot...
Arthur C Clarke's "Childhood's End" ends with humans joining a cosmic consciousness, though they all go together rather than one at a time after death.
 
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I don't recognize the story Ernest cites, but Richard seems to be talking about The Gods Themselves, right? Read that one a looong time ago; barely remember it, but I liked it. Also like Richard, I thought of "Childhood's End" in response to EFH's comment - wrong author, not the same plot, but vaguely relevant in a creepy kind of way.
--------------------
"When I'm elected class president, I will DEMAND a science fiction library with the A-B-C's of the OVERLORDS of the genre: Asimov! Bester! Clarke!"
 
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
What worries me is what happens to my feelings when I do lose my body. Do they still exist?


If you believe in the other world then there are some note worthy points for you.
You are only talking about materialistic(current) world like worry, pain, gain etc.
In another world there are no feelings, no pain, no happiness, no sorrow... there is nothing which you can feel or touch. Your senses were with your body and they have gone.
Read J. Krishnamurthy on life and death.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Richard seems to be talking about The Gods Themselves
Tungsten-186 and plutonium-186 ... blimey you've a memory on you! I just read the excerpts and yes that was the book. I thought it must have been from one of his many anthologoies. Makes me want to have a nostalgic re-read
[ October 22, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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Well, barnacles (as my 5-year-old has become fond of saying, apparently because she learned from other kids at school that Sponge Bob Square Pants, a character froma TV show she's never personally seen, says this)!
Now it's going drive me crazy trying to remember the name of that story.
So there's a computer, the first sentient computer, I think. And the human race is colonizing the cosmos. And long after the earth is a cinder, the universe is full of humans. And they're running out of space, and the universe is running out of energy, and people are downloading their consciousness into the computer when they die, and more and more stuff is getting transferred into "hyperspace" and eventually, the universe is just a uniform mass of entropic matter, and the sentient computer, with the collective minds of trillions of humans is in hyperspace, looking at the heat-dead universe, and it says "Let there be light." And there was light!
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
[qb]Your spirit will be sucked into the ever-expanding cosmos...

Having the spirit sucked out of you... Sounds like some places where I have worked!
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:
Well, barnacles (as my 5-year-old has become fond of saying, apparently because she learned from other kids at school that Sponge Bob Square Pants, a character froma TV show she's never personally seen, says this)!

"Sponge Bob" is one of our favorite shows!
Some favorite quotes:
http://www.fizzle-whizzle.net/sponge.html
The best are the episodes with Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy, two retired former super heroes. The voices are by Ernest Borgnine and Tim Conway.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:
Well, barnacles ... Now it's going drive me crazy trying to remember the name of that story.
Its been bugging me too, but I found the title!

The Last Question
In the near future, man has invented a super computer known as a Multivac. The computer is asked if entropy (the winding down or loss of energy in the universe) can be reversed. The computer says that not enough data is available. The story progresses many eons and through the years, the computers evolve along with man, and at each stage, it is asked if entropy can be reversed, and the answer always comes back that there is not enough data at that time. In the final stage, human kind has evolved into one mind free of body, and co-exists with the computer which exists in hyperspace. As the universe come to an end and man fades out, the computer discovers how to reverse entropy, and says "Let there be light"


http://www.angelfire.com/wi/mikebru/Alps.html
[ October 27, 2003: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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