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An apology, an explanation

 
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First and foremost, this is an apology. Specifically to Map, Eugene, Tarun and Ravish, whom have been my most common targets. But also to folks like Jim Yingst, whom I have broadsided on occasion. And even though Jim and I hashed things out privately, he's still on the list of people I've offended. There are probably others whom I don't remember, but the sentiments are still there.
This apology is in reference to what I consider uncivil behavior. I think that a good percentage of my comments here on MD have, despite the sometimes heated nature of the conversation, been civil.
Hoewever, some have not. And there is no call for that. There is no call for in any way demeaning another person. Snide remarks, even with smileys, direct attacks, avoiding the issue to nitpick the details, all of these are inappropriate and many are spelled out in the forum itself. Even if the conversation is of overriding importance - in fact, ESPECIALLY when the conversation is that important - I need to take care to treat the other participants with respect. To not do so is to demean them, myself, and even the very concepts which I am trying to defend. I have in recent weeks not adhered to this principle; I have sometimes stooped to questionable behavior in my remarks. For that I apologize. I do not like the person I see behind those comments, and do not wish to continue down that path.
The explanation is that I find my feelings on certain topics to be deep enough, through decades of introspection, that they are almost inviolable. My love of my country - or more precisely, the ideals for which it stands - are one of those inviolable aspects. And since I am unlikely to change my views on this matter, continued debate with those on the other side equally unlikely to change their views is unlikely to be productive. Thus, I am planning to continue my policy of staying out of certain conversations (no matter how much I want to say something ). In any event, I will avoid those controversies which make me, in my wife's words, "type mad". That's actually sort of an amusing phrase - my wife can actually tell when I'm typing something in the heat of the moment, because my typing is faster and much more forceful (and I probably utter an epithet or two ). So, from now on I will avoid conversations wherein I type mad .
So there it is: I apologize for being uncivil. I explained as best as I could why certain conversations are more likely to make me that way. That doesn't in any way relieve me of the responsibility for those remarks, and I will try to avoid doing so in the future, even if it means avoiding those topics.
Peace, everyone!
Joe
[ October 30, 2003: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]
 
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Hope you will get good sleep to-nite.
 
Joe Pluta
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Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:
Hope you will get good sleep to-nite.

Thanks, Balaji!
Interestingly enough, ever since I've gotten out of the "War on Terror" thread, I've slept better and been more productive during the day. It takes too much energy to type mad .
Joe
 
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First and foremost, this is an apology. Specifically to Map, Eugene, Tarun and Ravish, whom have been my most common targets.
You are forgiven, Joe, and we love you.
And since I am unlikely to change my views on this matter, continued debate with those on the other side equally unlikely to change their views is unlikely to be productive. Thus, I am planning to continue my policy of staying out of certain conversations (no matter how much I want to say something).
That I would not forgive. If you feel strongly about something, speak your mind. You would be making a deal with Satan otherwise.
[ October 30, 2003: Message edited by: Eugene Kononov ]
 
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Geez Joe,
If everyone who made insulting remarks were to apologize using your example, MD would be nothing but a series of serious threads followed by a series of apologies. And trust me, I have read far worse insults flung by others on MD and I havent seen an apology for any of them till date.
I'd lose sleep for a fierce debate on MD anyday.. lets me know my mind is active.
 
Joe Pluta
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(LAUGHING)
It's not like I'll never get involved in another discussion. It's just that I didn't like the way I was reacting, the tone I was using, and the feeling I had reading my own words. I had to sit back and review what was causing it, and it was the whole patriotism thing. It's a very heated topic... there are STILL people on the other thread bashing me "and my ilk". There are people saying that I think America can do no wrong, which just goes to show how misrepresentative these discussions can get. But if I were to join in, it wouldn't be in the spirit of an interchange of ideas, but more of me trying to defend myself (to "prove myself", in Eugene's words ).
So, rather than get into an argument that has no end and no real productive purpose at this point, I'm going to remove myself, at least for the time being.
And thus I WILL sleep better.
Joe
 
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It's a rule of "polite society" that you don't talk about politics or religion -- unless, of course, everyone present has the same politics or the same religion. If we were all at a party, would these same spirited debates happen? Probably not. The keyboard is an effective buffer. You're not looking into anybody's eyes when you talk.
Joe's epiphany about "typing mad" is one I had a decade ago, after hurtling offensive invective at one too many people across the far-younger Internet. I realized at that point virtually everybody, even if you only see their ASCII output, has feelings, is much smarter than they sound, and means well, even if it doesn't seem that way.
 
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We just need to keep in mind that the forum is called "Meaningless Drivel". Just don't take anything too seriously. Losing sleep over anything that happens here is over doing it. Just remember that in real life no one is as evil or as nice as they appear on the internet!
 
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Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:
It's a rule of "polite society" that you don't talk about politics or religion -- unless, of course, everyone present has the same politics or the same religion. If we were all at a party, would these same spirited debates happen?


Add on top of that all the different cultures, races, and individuality that this forum attracts, it's amazing MD is as civil as it is. Not only a true tribute to the Bartenders of MD, but also to all the other active participants. I read through most of the War On Terrrism thread, and it really amazed me that this discussion prompted this post. I have seen much worse in the past. Especially around 9/11.
Still, huge props to Joe for this post. Says a lot about the man.
 
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But also to folks like Jim Yingst, whom I have broadsided on occasion.
Actually, this was the worst part and what ultimately drove me out of my mind. I'll drop details.
The rest is what Eugene said. We love you and we always did.
Joe, please accept my apologies too. They have "Forgiven Sunday" in Russia, when everybody is expected to apologize for all he/she did and ask forgiveness. There is also something about kissing everybody, but I am not sure about this part of tradition.
 
Gregg Bolinger
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Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
Joe, please accept my apologies too. They have "Forgiven Sunday" in Russia, when everybody is expected to apologize for all he/she did and ask forgiveness.


And this says a lot about the woman.
There is also something about kissing everybody, but I am not sure about this part of tradition.
I doubt Joe would mind, but his wife on the other hand...
 
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Specifically to Map, Eugene, Tarun and Ravish, whom have been my most common targets.
..
Peace, everyone!
Joe


You were right when you said "Joe is nice person".
But when did you offend me ?
We like you Joe. [Am I repeating Eugene words ??]
 
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btw, Thomas,

in real life no one is as evil or as nice as they appear on the internet!

Agree to that. I have evil and nice faces at times
Joe, hope you feel better. Thats all we would want.
Regards
Maulin
 
Mapraputa Is
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Joe said he will be busy this week, hopefully he will join us soon.
 
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