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Broken English

 
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Why English speaking people are so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants.
�Don�t want to loose competitive advantage
�Got used to it, and don�t care
�Don�t want to offend anyone feelings
�Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem
�All of the above
�Other
 
author and iconoclast
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Why English speaking people are so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants.


Should be "Why are English-speaking people so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants?"


� Don�t want to loose competitive advantage


"loose" should be "lose"


� Got used to it, and don�t care
� Don�t want to offend anyone feelings


"anyone" -> "anyone's"
'Round here, people enjoy fixing Java problems. Is there a web site called "EnglishRanch?" If so, you might go over there, and, for fun, ask them why they don't like to fix Java problems, too.
 
stara szkapa
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Meaningless Drivel has nothing to do with fixing Java problems or even with Java, and I don�t see why �EnglishRanch� would. Are you having problems with logic?
 
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Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:
>>>Why English speaking people are so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants.

Should be "Why are English-speaking people so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants?"


How about "Why English speaking people are so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants:"
Just added a colon at the end. That works, no?
[ November 18, 2003: Message edited by: Nanhesru Ningyake ]
 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by stara szkapa:
Are you having problems with logic?

Are you having problems with manners?
The reasons that English-speaking people don't correct language errors of new immigrants:
1) don't particularly care
2) don't want to waste the afternoon giving language lessons
3) don't want to piss anyone off
 
Wanderer
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  • Don�t want to loose competitive advantage

  • Not in my experience. I suppose this might be a factor if you're talking to a co-worker who thinks their job may be outsourced to you in the future.
  • Got used to it, and don�t care
  • Don�t want to offend anyone feelings
  • Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the problem

  • Typically it's some mixture of these three, depending on the situation and the people involved. These are roughly the same as the three Thomas listed, except that 2 and 3 are reversed. You can't really do much about the first one, and it's usually a good thing anyway. For the other two, if you want to get more input from native speakers, you can occasionally ask thinks like "did I say that correctly?" or "How would you say that?" Some people may be willing and interested in helping out. But also remember that it takes time to explain things, and it sometimes happens that if we stop to explain one thing, we just get asked five to ten more questions. (Which also happens a lot in Java forums.) So you want to be careful not to exhaust the patience of the people who help you. And bear in mind that most native speakers can't really explain why many features of the language are the way they are; native speakers never had to think about it much. They can answer "yes that's right" or "no that's wrong" but seldom "why".
    For what it's worth, it's not just English speakers. I had much the same experience when I lived in Italy for a year. After a few months, my language skills were good enough that people could usually understand me (or they pretended to), and I got far fewer corrections than I had at first. Which didn't mean that I wasn't still committing all sorts of errors; it just meant I had to work more to find out what the errors were.
    [ November 18, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
     
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    How boring it would have been if Arney had said "I shall be back"
     
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    It's not just broken English-- this happens to everyone who has to speak someone else's language.
    I live in Barcelona. There are two principle languages here, Spanish and Catalan. I speak pretty good Spanish-- good enough that my Spanish wife married me and we now have Real Big Arguments in Spanish.
    However, my Spanish isn't perfect. About the time that it got "good enough" that I could survive, work, etc, people stopped correcting me. Think-- when you hear a non-native speaker in your language say something equivalent to, "The CEO is here and want to speak to you", do you immediately correct the person? probably not. If you do, it probably becomes a big apology: "Say, um, do you mind if I, um, make a suggestion about how to say that a little tiny bit better?"
    The difference is even greater when it comes to Catalan. For political reasons, it is nice to be able to speak some catalan if you are in Barcelona. But basically, if you can say some very basic phrases and then fill in with "Catalanized" Spanish, no one will *ever* correct you. Seeing an American speak Catalan is kind of like watching a dog dance-- it's not that he does it well, it's just that he does it...
    I know that not speaking the native language will make you feel less competitive with the natives-- it's true, you may have a harder time advancing as a result of your English (I know that I will never be technical director of my current company because of this). People may tell you that this will not make a difference, but that's BS. You have to consider if this is okay with you when you consider moving somewhere where you might have to learn the language.
     
    Leverager of our synergies
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    SS: Why English speaking people are so reluctant to correct language errors of new immigrants.
    Actually, Jim did correct my grammar several times, when he spotted a consistent anti-Pattern I tried to apply.
    Stara, I am not sure if you are just curious, or you actually *want* to be corrected. If the latter, it might be a good idea to tell people around that you do not mind to be corrected. Sorry if I am telling banalities... I for one would never correct anybody's language, as long as I can understand it, if I wasn't invited to, or wasn't in too close relationship with a speaker, when mild abuse is welcome.
     
    Thomas Paul
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    "Broken English"
    Lyrics by Faithful, Raynolds, Mavety, York, Stannard;
    Music by Fujii, Oshima
    I could have got through anytime
    cold lonely puritan
    what are you fighting for
    it's not my security
    it's just an old war
    not even a cold war
    don't say it in russian
    don't say it in german
    say it in b ro ken en glis h
    say it in...
    b rok en e ng l ish
    lose your father your husband
    your mother your children
    what are you fighting for
    it's not my reality
    it's just an old war
    not even a cold war
    don't say it in russian
    don't say it in german
    say it in bro ke n e ng lish
    say it in br ok en eng li sh
     
    stara szkapa
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    Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
    I am not sure if you are just curious, or you actually *want* to be corrected.


    People make very obvious mistakes over and over again and nobody reacts. I don�t expect people to correct every single mistake, but if you seat in the same cubicle with someone who uses the same wrong sentence 100 times every day I start to wander isn�t it offensive not to correct the gay. It is like letting someone walk around the office with unzipped pants and not to say anything, and yet you say to yourself �poor fellow�.
    I personally would love to be corrected, especially if someone notices there is some wrong pattern in my language which I replicate frequently. Unfortunately it never happens. Either people don�t say anything (English culture), or in some other cultures language errors are used to shut down people which is even worse.
     
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    Originally posted by stara szkapa:

    People make very obvious mistakes over and over again and nobody reacts. I don�t expect people to correct every single mistake, but if you seat in the same cubicle with someone who uses the same wrong sentence 100 times every day I start to wander isn�t it offensive not to correct the gay. It is like letting someone walk around the office with unzipped pants and not to say anything, and yet you say to yourself �poor fellow�.
    I personally would love to be corrected, especially if someone notices there is some wrong pattern in my language which I replicate frequently. Unfortunately it never happens. Either people don�t say anything (English culture), or in some other cultures language errors are used to shut down people which is even worse.


    Anyone want to correct this one.
     
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    Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

    Anyone want to correct this one.


    So... is stara saying that improper grammar is a problem only with gays, and not straight people?

    [ November 20, 2003: Message edited by: Elaine Micheals ]
     
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    People make very obvious mistakes over and over again and nobody reacts. I don’t expect people to correct every single mistake, but if you seat in the same cubicle with someone who uses the same wrong sentence 100 times every day I start to wander isn’t it offensive not to correct the [B] gay.


    Alright I'll correct you
    Dont you mean GUY
     
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    Umm! Who do you think the English learn their language from these days ?
    Immigrants. Perfect grammar and pronounciation. No dropped 'aitches.
    I know a few people who are sort of English bi-lingual. One for street cred and another for credibility elsewhere. (Like when asking for a pay rise.)
    No *funny* humour anymore. The language is going PC on us.
    regards
     
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    Originally posted by stara szkapa:
    I personally would love to be corrected


    Do people know that? In my experience, most people won't say anything because they don't want to offend the speaker. Only if they can't understand what the speaker is trying to say will they speak up.
     
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    this is so cool! maybe this thread will eventually become something like "english clinic".
     
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