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Greatest Tech Flops Ever

 
mister krabs
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Well, in the last 20 years anyway...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ttzd/20031223/tc_techtues_zd/115253&cid=1739&ncid=1729
I think half of his choices don't deserve to be on the list.
So what is on your list of the greatest tech flops ever?
 
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I dont think this ever escaped the UK (no surprise there considering that it was... a flop! ) but I would nominate the Sinclair C5?
 
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This could turn out to be a flop and I sincerely hope it doesn't.
Beagle 2
A fine example of the inventon of Backroom Boys - British Boffinry at it's best.With little financial or political backing the spacecraft Beagle 2 was due to land on Mars this Christmas. But they have lost all communication.
 
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You can't say Beagle 2 is a flop simply because it malfunctioned or met some other trouble (like landing in a cave).
If it were to function but the data it provided was inherently flawed THEN it would be a flop.
I think those USB flashmemory pens will prove to be a flop in the long term.
A CF card and reader are cheaper and store more (though don't look so cool).
Like the Apple Newton they have great hype potential but little real use.
 
HS Thomas
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
You can't say Beagle 2 is a flop simply because it malfunctioned or met some other trouble (like landing in a cave).
If it were to function but the data it provided was inherently flawed THEN it would be a flop.
.


Flawed data a cause for many a malfunction.OK then, I agree Beagle 2 won't be a flop even if it's never heard from again.
 
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How about that audio CD copy protection from Sony that could be disabled with a marker?
 
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In terms of sheer magnitude--what was promised versus what was actually delivered--the winner hands down is President Reagan's SDI, or Star Wars Defense Ititiative as we were fond of calling it in the 1980's. This system was going to cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars, but eventually got scrapped because it was "unfeasible". The story behind the story is that the antidote to this system was developed by some Russian teenager who suggested that you could simply send a billion electronic dummy signals along with the real one, so that even if the SDI system worked (which, of course, it didn't...and still doesn't) it wouldn't know which one of the million or so blips on the screen was real. A multi-billion-dollar initiative thwarted by a 25-ruble counter-initiative.
 
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good candidate is german satelite guided highway toll collect system "Maut System" which was produced by kind of joint venture of the startup companies DaimlerChrysler and Deutsche Telekom called "Toll Collect". Should have started to be productive since September this year or so and very recently they found out that the technology does not work.
German government very recently started negotiation with a swiss company which allready had a running system for their country, before our costly own project were started. This whole project is a mayor scandal here.
I am waiting for interesting reports about what really happened in "Toll Collect" company, when the dust has settled a bit.
http://www.fela.ch/elektroniktelem/de/news/ourfearshaveall.html
 
HS Thomas
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Boo.com
Interviewed by them at Victoria Station just 6 months before their height. Ex-army chaps.
[ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Alan Labout:
In terms of sheer magnitude--what was promised versus what was actually delivered--the winner hands down is President Reagan's SDI, or Star Wars Defense Ititiative as we were fond of calling it in the 1980's. This system was going to cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars, but eventually got scrapped because it was "unfeasible".


SDI was actually the greatest political success of the post-WW2 era as well as the greatest hoax of the century.
It was never a feasible program and all involved knew it from the beginning (though any usefull tech coming from it was of course not thrown away).
Its entire purpose was to get the USSR to overspend on military development, ruining their economy in the process. This worked flawlessly.
In fact it worked so well that the USSR no longer exists as a direct result of the civil unrest unleashed by the failing economy.
The demonstrations shown on TV worldwide of missile bodies being blown up by lasers are known to have been faked. The missile was packed with explosives which were set off by pressing the fire button, the laser (if there even was one) never did anything
In the end the USSR was caught by the very thing they were always best at before: deception.
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Boo.com

I used to use boo.com as an example of how not to write a web site in a web design course. The site was so loaded with JavaScript and the pages so large that half of their potential customers couldn't buy anything from them!
 
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
How about that audio CD copy protection from Sony that could be disabled with a marker?


Or the one that could be defeated by holding down the shift key! Prevents CD autorun on Windows systems, which prevented the copy protection software from being installed.
 
HS Thomas
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I used to use boo.com as an example of how not to write a web site in a web design course. The site was so loaded with JavaScript and the pages so large that half of their potential customers couldn't buy anything from them!


I believe a lot of Marketing lessons were learnt from Boo and they managed to clean up their sites but went bust by then.I had a look at it around early 2002 and it was quite impressive like being able to view goods from all angles and levels of detail.At the end their Marketing let them down and customers didn't want that level of techno whizz.. I used Amazon as an example of a good site and Waterstones as a bad one. Waterstones still lags behind quite a bit.
The Boo Story
[ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Alan Labout
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

SDI was actually the greatest political success of the post-WW2 era as well as the greatest hoax of the century.


Interesting take on that. If what you say is right, then it kinda makes you wonder what other "hoaxes" are currently being perpetrated by our government at the expense of those of us who trust what the media and government tell us...
 
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If what you say is right, then it kinda makes you wonder what other "hoaxes" are currently being perpetrated by our government at the expense of those of us who trust what the media and government tell us...
Doesn't make me wonder. I don't trust the media, and I recognize that the government doesn't always tell me everything. So, given that, what sort of hoaxes do you have in mind, Alan? Aliens in the desert? Assassination conspiracies? Mind control experiments? LSD in the water supply?
Me, I'm more worried about the multinational corporations that are selling American jobs to the lowest bidder. You want to worry about something, worry about the jobless recovery and the destruction of the middle class.
Joe
 
Alan Labout
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Doesn't make me wonder. I don't trust the media, and I recognize that the government doesn't always tell me everything.



Yeah, but there's a big difference between the government "not telling everything" and the government "lying" to us in order to engage in brilliant hoaxes, as was the case in Joeren's interpretation of events. Although, now that you mention it, maybe you're right: maybe it's the same thing after all. Anyway, Joe, I think it's good that you do recognize such things, because not everyone does.
As for the middle class, this does not interest me, because, honestly, there are much more pressing things to worry about than whether some middle-class American can buy a second car or tv. Unless, of course, you can convince me that this is something worth worrying about?
Alan
 
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wait for few years and u will find C# and .net in this list as well.
 
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http://www.takara-usa.com/bowlingual.html
Doggy translator (its a Flash site). Not officially a flop though.
"I'm hungry", "I want to go walkies", "Stroke me" - that's all dog's ever say (unless they haven't been spayed yet).
[ January 01, 2004: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
Joe Pluta
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As for the middle class, this does not interest me, because, honestly, there are much more pressing things to worry about than whether some middle-class American can buy a second car or tv.
Alan, where exactly do you think all that relief that's flying into Iran is coming from? Where do you think all the billions of dollars of American foreign aid comes from? The bulk of it comes from the American taxpayer, and a significant percentage of the taxes in America are borne by the middle class. Another large part of such aid comes from charitable contributions, and those too are significantly funded by the middle class.
Of course, from your comments, it's pretty clear you don't know that, or don't care. That "second car" crack was about as goofy as any I've heard in a long time. Most of my friends are more worried about sending their kids to school or keeping their houses than they are about getting another car, but you wouldn't know about that either. By the way, those that do have two cars usually need them because, as in my family, both parents work and public transportation is rarely viable except in urban centers. But you wouldn't know about that either.
Anyway, you can't rain on my parade, Alan. Let's see here... you say "our government" as if you're an American. Okay. And you've got the wherewithal to get on the Internet, so you're not impoverished. You act as if you're not in the middle class, so you must be wealthy.
I could be wrong here, maybe you're a middle class American who whines about other middle class Americans. How sweet. Or maybe you're a poor American who stole somebody's laptop and cell phone . Or maybe you're not American, but you just play one on the Internet in order to get a rise out of people.
Anyway, given the recent discussion, it seems to me you're either a rich American or you're misrepresenting yourself.
Personally, I find those who misrepresent themselves on the Internet to be just a waste of electrons.
On the other hand, when I meet a rich American on the Internet whining about American policy rather than actually doing something about it, then I have absolutely zero credence for anything they say, because they're just dilettantes, and a waste of both money AND electrons.
Cheers!
Joe
 
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Joe: Let's see here... you say "our government" as if you're an American.
In fact, Alan is a rich Russian. But Joe, aren't you supposed to chase me around this place, ah? I am jealous, you know.
--------------------
"Anyway, you can't rain on my parade, Alan." -- Joe Pluta
 
Joe Pluta
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In fact, Alan is a rich Russian.
If by Russian you mean a citizen of Russia (as opposed to an American citizen from Russia or of Russian descent) then I wish that he'd not speak of my government as his government. Personally, though, I don't care what he is - his condescension towards the American middle class transcends any national affiliation.
Joe
 
HS Thomas
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The Segway - more recent hype that has fallen flat on it's face. At least the Sinclair C-5 was credible for a few years.
As to American foreign aid, where does $200 billion all go to ? Emron ?
Rebuilding Iraq ?
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Mapraputa Is
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Joe: If by Russian you mean a citizen of Russia (as opposed to an American citizen from Russia or of Russian descent)
He is an American citizen from Russia, I believe.
then I wish that he'd not speak of my government as his government.
"My government", "his government"... *My* mother taught me to share my toys
--------------------
"Personally, I find those who misrepresent themselves on the Internet to be just a waste of electrons." -- Joe Pluta
 
Mark Fletcher
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
The Segway - more recent hype that has fallen flat on it's face. At least the Sinclair C-5 was credible for a few years.


I can remember seeing a Sinclair C-5 ooh at least 15 years ago. That said there wasnt anyone sitting in it at the time, it was propping up an advertisement for a local photographer.
Contrast that to my last visit to Seattle in July 2003, I saw a couple of old folks going down a street on segways, and staff at the Seahawks stadium were scooting about on them when I was at the Celtic vs Manchester Utd game that was being played there.
Umm maybe the Segway is more popular than the C-5, but the Segway is only really popular in Seattle! I guess drinking too much coffee can drive you to purchase crap gadgets x()
 
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Two words
Microsoft Bob.
Biggest flop in history. And huge egg in Microsoft's face.
Mark
 
Joe Pluta
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"My government", "his government"... *My* mother taught me to share my toys
Yeah, but my Dad taught me that when someone borrows my bicycle, if they don't like it they can just give it back and use their own .
Joe
 
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I think those USB flashmemory pens will prove to be a flop in the long term.
A CF card and reader are cheaper and store more (though don't look so cool).


What is a CF card and reader? Sounds more complicated than the USB key-chain adapters which don't need a reader (i.e., a second piece of euipment). Just a free USB port...?
 
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Alan Labout: "it kinda makes you wonder what other `hoaxes' are currently being perpetrated by our government at the expense of those of us who trust what the media and government tell us...


I don't know about _now_, but I know of a hoax the government perpetrated on the American people ten years ago. The Clinton administration arranged for the Center For Disease Control to fund fraudulent research to promote gun control.
One reseach summary _suggested_ that a person who keeps a gun for defense is 43 times more likely to kill a friend, loved one or acquaintance than an attacker. When critics finally got access to the raw data, it turned out that none of the dead friends or loved ones of the gun-owners were killed by the gun-owner's gun (apparently the statistics were skewed by a portion of the gun owners being criminals in the drug trade who killed or were killed by rival "acquaintances").
Another piece of research compared Vancouver, Canada with Seattle, Washington, showing that these cities were similar in many measures, but with radically different gun laws in force, concluding that the gun laws explained Seattle's much higher murder rate. When critics finally got access to the raw data, it turned out that ethnic east-Asians had comparable murder rates in both cities, non-hispanic whites had comparable murder rates in both cities, but the that Seattle had very high murder rates among a couple of ethnic groups that had no significant presence in Vancouver.
Then there was the 1994 "assault weapon" controversey in which the Clinton administration and the "mainstream" newsmedia conspired to convince people that the NRA was interfering with efforts to stop the sales of machine guns to the public. Those sales had already been stopped in 1986 under Reagan, with no objection from the NRA; the new proposed law actually concerned only ordinary guns which had features that made them look like military weapons -- semi-functional replicas, essentially. (They looked like AK-47s, Uzis and M16s but fired like Winchesters.)
I think the rise of the Internet and talk-radio (cheaper access) has made these kinds of hoaxes more difficult to perpetrate.
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Frank Silbermann ]
 
Alan Labout
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
You act as if you're not in the middle class, so you must be wealthy.
Whether I'm middle class, wealthy, or dirt poor has nothing to do with the fact that I don't find the plight of middle-class Americans a particularly worrisome problem.
I could be wrong here, maybe you're a middle class American who whines about other middle class Americans.
Maybe. Or maybe I'm just someone who doesn't find it compelling when the American middle class begs for sympathy as if their problems are remotely interesting for the rest of the world.
I remember when the American steel workers were protesting over allowing Russian steel onto the American market. Russian steel workers held a meeting of their own appealing to their fellow workers in the U.S. to try to understand their plight: doing the same work under conditions that are ten times worse than in the U.S. for a salary of about $150/month. But, of course, the Americans were only concerned about themselves, protecting their market, etc. It's hard for me to sympathize with this.
Or maybe you're not American, but you just play one on the Internet in order to get a rise out of people.
Rest assured, Joe, I am no less American than you. But the big difference between you and me, Joe, is that you look at the world from the point of view of an American, whereas I do so as a human being. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they are certainly very distinct.
Cheers!
Same to you, Joe!
 
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"Understanding the American middle class is the single best way to avoid becoming part of it."
Can't find the attribution, sadly.
 
Alan Labout
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
So what is on your list of the greatest tech flops ever?


Would the U.S. space shuttles qualify as a "flop"? Although the shuttle program has been used to conduct quite a few interesting data-gathering missions, they do seem to blow up a lot when compared to other forms of transportation.
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Alan Labout ]
 
Michael Ernest
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Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:

The Clinton administration arranged for the Center For Disease Control to fund fraudulent research to promote gun control.


You'd be a very good propagandist, Frank.


One reseach summary _suggested_ that a person who keeps a gun for defense is 43 times more likely to kill a friend, loved one or acquaintance than an attacker. When critics finally got access to the raw data, it turned out that none of the dead friends or loved ones of the gun-owners were killed by the gun-owner's gun (apparently the statistics were skewed by a portion of the gun owners being criminals in the drug trade who killed or were killed by rival "acquaintances").


Link?


Another piece of research compared Vancouver, Canada with Seattle, Washington, showing that these cities were similar in many measures, but with radically different gun laws in force, concluding that the gun laws explained Seattle's much higher murder rate. When critics finally got access to the raw data, it turned out that ethnic east-Asians had comparable murder rates in both cities, non-hispanic whites had comparable murder rates in both cities, but the that Seattle had very high murder rates among a couple of ethnic groups that had no significant presence in Vancouver.


Link?


Then there was the 1994 "assault weapon" controversey in which the Clinton administration and the "mainstream" newsmedia conspired to convince people that the NRA was interfering with efforts to stop the sales of machine guns to the public. Those sales had already been stopped in 1986 under Reagan, with no objection from the NRA; the new proposed law actually concerned only ordinary guns which had features that made them look like military weapons -- semi-functional replicas, essentially. (They looked like AK-47s, Uzis and M16s but fired like Winchesters.)


Wow, that's one heaping revisionist crock of shit. Got a link?
 
Joe Pluta
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Or maybe I'm just someone who doesn't find it compelling when the American middle class begs for sympathy as if their problems are remotely interesting for the rest of the world.
Who's "begging for sympathy", Alan? What I said is that you should worry about the destruction of the American middle class rather than about some mystical "hoaxes" you think the government has perpetrated. The reason is that pretty much the rest of the world economy depends on it.
If the rest of the world doesn't care about the American middle class, exactly where do they think all their goods and services are going to go? Europe? Russia? Where is the humanitarian aid going to come from? France? Syria?
Seriously, if you don't care about middle class America, I wouldn't object if you chose to live in another country. My guess is most middle class Americans would feel the same way.

Rest assured, Joe, I am no less American than you.
I don't know (or care) what you mean by this, Alan, but we have nothing in common. I'll leave it to you to decide who gets the better end of that deal.
And there's no need to respond either. That space shuttle comment is to me a perfect encapsulation of your personal touch, and I think I'll just keep that to remember you by.
Joe
 
Mark Fletcher
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Originally posted by Alan Labout:

Would the U.S. space shuttles qualify as a "flop"? Although the shuttle program has been used to conduct quite a few interesting data-gathering missions, they do seem to blow up a lot when compared to other forms of transportation.
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Alan Labout ]


When you look at the Shuttle with regards to other vehicles in its class (rockets, probes, anything that escapes the gravity well), the US Space Shuttle has done pretty well. Its a proven design, it *works* and I hope it is a stepping stone to cheaper more reliable space transportation.
On the otherhand, The USSR's Buran Space Shuttle would probably qualify as a hi tech flop, if only for the amount of cash lavished on it!
Mark
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Mark Fletcher ]
 
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Joe: The reason is that pretty much the rest of the world economy depends on it.
And I thought it's the other way around... Sigh. I guess now the rest of the world will have to depend on Indian middle class.
 
Michael Ernest
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
What I said is that you should worry about the destruction of the American middle class rather than about some mystical "hoaxes" you think the government has perpetrated. The reason is that pretty much the rest of the world economy depends on it.


That's one way of putting it. Another way is that the American middle class consumes a grossly disproportionate share of the world's resources, and they do it by purchasing those resources at prices that much of the rest of the world can't afford.
If the rest of the world doesn't care about the American middle class, exactly where do they think all their goods and services are going to go? Europe? Russia? Where is the humanitarian aid going to come from? France? Syria?
All roads lead to the American middle class. Interesting position, although not a particularly American one, and not one you'd expect to hear from a self-described spokesman for the middle class. It sounds more like imperialism than capitalism.
Seriously, if you don't care about middle class America, I wouldn't object if you chose to live in another country. My guess is most middle class Americans would feel the same way.
Oops, not imperliasm. That sounds like Nixon speaking for his beloved "silent majority."
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
 
Alan Labout
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I thought it might be instructive when assessing the degree to which the U.S. space shuttle can be considered a flop, to compare it with a less ambitious system of transportation, specifically, my "fleet" of personal automobiles. (Joe: here you can gather some evidence as to the socio-economic stratum to which I belong!) Here are the data:

Total vehicles:
Space shuttles: 5 ('81 Columbia, '82 Challenger, '83 Discovery, '85 Atlantis, '91 Endeavour)
My cars: 3 ('82 Honda, '86 Chevy Celebrity Station Wagon, '87 Toyota Corolla).
Average age:
Space shuttles: 15.2 yrs
My cars: 19 yrs
Average cost/item:
Space shuttles: $1.7 billion
My cars: $350 (used)
Average cost per use:
Space shuttles: $470M
My cars: $2.38
Fatal explosions:
Space shuttles: 2/5 (40%)
my cars: 0/3 (0%)
Lives lost due to explosions:
Space shuttle: 14
My cars: 0
Value to scientific research:
Space shuttle: considerable
My cars: neglibible.

I don't know about you, but if I were an advocate for the tax-paying middle class, I'd be hopping mad...!
 
Joe Pluta
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I guess now the rest of the world will have to depend on Indian middle class.
Or the Chinese middle class...
Joe
 
Joe Pluta
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JP: Seriously, if you don't care about middle class America, I wouldn't object if you chose to live in another country. My guess is most middle class Americans would feel the same way.
ME: Oops, not imperliasm. That sounds like Nixon speaking for his beloved "silent majority."
No, Michael, it's me, Joe Pluta, saying clearly and distinctly that if you don't like the American middle class, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Or as I've always said, feel free to come to a precinct house or a fire department or a tavern or a shopping mall or a bowling alley or a pizza joint or a McDonald's or a train station or a barber shop or JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE ELSE IN AMERICA and try to spout that sort of gibberish, about how the American middle class is pampered and soft and lazy.
Ah shoot, I promised myself not to let you folks rile me up. So I'm going to speak my piece on this for the very last time. Think of it as my New Year's present:
Americans are some of the hardest working, biggest hearted people on the planet, and the middle class is the heart and soul of that populace. We have funded and supported more pure research, more charitable contributions, more foreign aid, and more humanitarian support than any country in history. We're not perfect, but the whole world expects us to be, and they count on us over and over again.
We're not better than the rest of the world, but we're sure as hell not worse, and if we were anywhere as imperialistic as some of you folks say, this would be the United World of America. Get over your bad selves. Picture America with Hitler or Hussein at the helm. If you're honest about it, you'll know we do a lot less harm than we might.
But there are a lot of you who are constitutionally incapable of being honest. And you guys who consistently trash America, you're not going to change. You're like the Iranians who are condemning our support to Bam, or else just ignoring it because it doesn't fit in with your bizarre and cynical world view.
So, to the people out there who hate me just because I'm an American and proud of it, peace and love to you, but you get no more free rental space in the mind of Joe.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Joe
 
Michael Ernest
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JP: No, Michael, it's me, Joe Pluta, saying clearly and distinctly that if you don't like the American middle class, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
ME: Well good, I'm glad that's been made clear. For the record, I do not consider the "American middle class" a political entity of any shape or form. It's a convenient and somewhat academic abstraction. I neither like it nor dislike it. As you portray it, however, it sounds mighty full of itself and that I can live without.
JP: Or as I've always said, feel free to come to a precinct house or a fire department or a tavern or a shopping mall or a bowling alley or a pizza joint or a McDonald's or a train station or a barber shop or JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE ELSE IN AMERICA and try to spout that sort of gibberish, about how the American middle class is pampered and soft and lazy.
ME: The American middle class enjoys a standard of living that well exceeds what most of the rest of the world can even imagine. You seem to have no idea. Joe, I for one have been a firefighter, a fast food worker (Taco Bell, though), a store manager, a tech drone, etc., and I've been a whole lot of places in America: 30 states and counting. So what if some of the American middle class works hard? Most people do. No one here has said the American middle class is pampered and soft and lazy. Some have said pampered, and on a world scale, it's certainly true.
I think someone called you on your stuff just right a few posts back, dismissing the idea that anyone should worry about whether the American middle class can afford a second or third car or pay college tuition for a child. It was exactly the worry you posted a few months back on the topic of "American jobs" leaving America. So what if you can't afford what to most of the world is a luxury? The fact that you can see such a thing as a necessity lets anyone know what standard of living you are accustomed to.
Suggesting that the world should worry about the condition of the American middle class to me speaks to a case of class myopia so severe it borders on unconscious hypocrisy. So long as the American middle class gets what it wants, you seem to be saying, everyone else can get what they need. There are other ways to order the world, Joe, and while I can't fault anyone for thinking (on some primitive level) the world would be a great place if only their needs were met first, anyone who thinks twice understands such self-centered fantasizing makes for poor economic policy.
JP: Americans are some of the hardest working, biggest hearted people on the planet, and the middle class is the heart and soul of that populace. We have funded and supported more pure research, more charitable contributions, more foreign aid, and more humanitarian support than any country in history. We're not perfect, but the whole world expects us to be, and they count on us over and over again.
ME: This is just silly. Pride, fine. But if you think the world admires the American middle class and depends on it, you might be a little shocked to find out what few people know or care who the American middle class is. You don't even vote as an organized entity, much less run anything associated with US views on the rest of the world. The middle class is an economic stratum, not a political force.
JP: We're not better than the rest of the world, but we're sure as hell not worse, and if we were anywhere as imperialistic as some of you folks say, this would be the United World of America.
ME: Didn't you just get done saying the whole world expects the American middle class to be perfect?
JP: Picture America with Hitler or Hussein at the helm. If you're honest about it, you'll know we do a lot less harm than we might.
ME: This is classic middle class paranoia: any other power structure than the status quo that supports the middle class' standards and way of life has to be some kind of fanatical tyranny. Why can't we just imagine some silverspooned, partygoing hell-raiser who grows up to become President ten years after his father? Why can't we just imagine some poor but bright kid from a backwoods, broken home who rises to that same office, coming from one of the least likely states in the Union to harbor a Presidential candidate? Why can't we imagine a movie star turned politician doing it? Or is it required that only the most egregious examples of political tyranny be invoked anytime someone casts a doubtful eye on the middle class? Is it because the middle class cannot stand the spotlight of examination for very long?
JP: But there are a lot of you who are constitutionally incapable of being honest.
ME: I take this kind of statement to mean something like "you are unable to agree with me, and agreeing with me is the only way to be right."
JP: And you guys who consistently [do something I don't like], you're not going to change. You're like [people easy to vilify], or else just ignoring it because it doesn't fit in with your bizarre and cynical world view.
ME: Backatcha.
JP: So, to the people out there who hate me just because I'm an American and proud of it, peace and love to you, but you get no more free rental space in the mind of Joe.
ME: We won't have Joe Pluta to kick around anymore?
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
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