Win a copy of Testing JavaScript Applications this week in the HTML Pages with CSS and JavaScript forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • fred rosenberger
  • salvin francis
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown

Have the Europeans gone soft on Pot ?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A tiny sector do need the drugs for medicinal use but is legalising it
(though not 100% legal) a step too far.
"Tell me about the hash bars."
"OK, what do you want to know?"
"It's legal there, right?"
"It's legal, but it ain't 100 percent legal."
"John Travolta's Pulp Fiction character made this confusing statement about the Netherlands, but lately he could have been talking about any of a handful of other European countries that have significantly relaxed their drug laws."
As any freshman economics student could predict, the sellers-whom the government has targeted--will profit from the change.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm pretty sure it wont be legalised in England, at least for a long time. IT was recently regraded to C, which I think is the lowest grade you can get, which is probably correct because it's not THAT dangerous a drug. Now we just need to work on getting Tobacco classified as grade C
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am not really sure about that :
There seems to be a deterrent in:
"stoners shouldn't pack their bags for London quite yet. Not only is Blunkett retaining the Class C maximum penalty of two years' jail time, but he plans to create a crime of "aggravated possession." The precise definition of this new offense is still sketchy, but according to British media accounts, infractions could include smoking weed in the presence of children, carrying it near schools or blowing smoke at a police officer. Incarceration will also be a possibility for repeat offenders."
Aggravated possession is treated the same as a traffic violation.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You can smoke it discreetly. However its now illegal to walk around with "pink-eye", stare at the CD jukebox in a pub for too long, and to eat Frosties out of the box in your underpants
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
You can smoke it discreetly. However its now illegal to walk around with "pink-eye", stare at the CD jukebox in a pub for too long, and to eat Frosties out of the box in your underpants


Are you sure you don't mean eat frosties out of your underpants from your box?
[ January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Bela Bardak ]
 
Bela Bardak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tim Baker:
I'm pretty sure it wont be legalised in England, at least for a long time. IT was recently regraded to C, which I think is the lowest grade you can get, which is probably correct because it's not THAT dangerous a drug. Now we just need to work on getting Tobacco classified as grade C


Now all we need to work on is getting alchohol classified as a Class C drug.
 
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally posted by Bela Bardak:
Are you sure you don't mean eat frosties out of your underpants from your box?
If I started doing that I'd be leading the campaign to reclassify pot as a Class A drug
 
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Bela Bardak:

Now all we need to work on is getting alchohol classified as a Class C drug.


I've yet to see evidence that prolonged but reasonable consumption of alcohol causes long term damage to your body.
 
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally posted by Tim Baker:
I've yet to see evidence that prolonged but reasonable consumption of alcohol causes long term damage to your body.
Indeed! A beer a day keeps the doctor away:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/727912.stm
Though the guy in the picure looks pretty sick IMO...
Drugs aren't a problem, its excessive use that's the problem.
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Drugs aren't a problem, its excessive use that's the problem.
With Camelot behaving like a drug pusher( the weekly spend on Lottery Tickets could rise to �16 per player) , casinos opening on the high street and not quite 100% legalised drugs a bit of ' strengthening of minds' must be in order.
Money raised from such dealings are being 'promised' to be spent on projects that would once have been paid out of taxation.
Substantial profits will change the nature of the game. Start the junkies off gently, then increase the dose.
[ January 03, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Substantial profits will change the nature of the game. Start the junkies off gently, then increase the dose.
I will have a very responsible outlook when weaning my children onto beer and cigarettes.
 
Bela Bardak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tim Baker:

I've yet to see evidence that prolonged but reasonable consumption of alcohol causes long term damage to your body.


Perhaps, Tim. But the kind of drinking I see in the typical pub, where 'moderate' often means between 4 and 8 pints a night?
When I was in the hospital I shared a room with a chap who had an 8 pint a day habit, down from 12 when he was younger. He was in the hospital because of gradual paralysis.
 
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've no doubt many people are abusing it, as some people are abusing glue. If something has no reasonable use then I say ban it. If it has a reasonable use then it can be controlled. If we started prosecuting pub staff who serve people way over the limits then it might help.
 
Bela Bardak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I was being facetious earlier Tim. I drink beer and wine (moderately) and would object to criminalisation also. But the way I see many Brits abuse alchohol leads me to think it's one of the worst national plagues. The Italians and French handle it better I think though not the Germans. Even the US seems to have less of a problem with it than the UK....
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1408
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tim Baker: If something has no reasonable use then I say ban it.


I was going to call you a fascist -- until I remembered that I feel pretty much the same way about modern art.

Bela Bardak: the way I see many Brits abuse alchohol leads me to think it's one of the worst national plagues. The Italians and French handle it better I think though not the Germans.


Alcoholism used to be a stereotype of the Irish, but I don't hear much of that lately. How did they overcome it?

Even the US seems to have less of a problem with it than the UK....


That's because of the ever-increasing crackdown on drunken drivers. And Americans cannot go anywhere without a car.
I, personally, am very reluctant to take even a single drink unless I'm at home or in a friend's house. In most states, anyone who's caught drinking while carrying a gun is likely to lose his concealed carry permit. And if, God forbid, I ever had to actually use it, I would not want there to be any questions about my judgement.
 
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
US universities have a very large problem with it though from what I understand. Although here in the UK that is also a problem.
I see smoking as a bigger potential national health problem than drinking, as most people tend to grow out of excessive drinking.
 
Bela Bardak
Ranch Hand
Posts: 179
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tim Baker:

US universities have a very large problem with it though from what I understand. Although here in the UK that is also a problem.


That is completely consistent with Frank's point because most US students don't drive. Therefore they can afford to drink excessively.

Originally posted by Tim Baker:

I see smoking as a bigger potential national health problem than drinking, as most people tend to grow out of excessive drinking.


Hmmmm, I'm not sure. The chap at the hospital was 68 years old and still on 7-8 pints a day. Down from 12 in his 30's. Is that 'growing out' of it?
Quite a few of the chaps at work punish a bottle pretty good, at least to hear them tell it they do. And when I (rarely) go out with them they seem to drink a lot. I can handle about 2 pints and that's it for me. I stop enjoying it at that point.
And a lot of people quit smoking. BTW, most pubs I've entered are smoky places. Linked vices?
[ January 05, 2004: Message edited by: Bela Bardak ]
 
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand
Posts: 3404
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Leslie recently said that 50% of people in TV use crack cocaine. To these users pot would be like taking an aspirin one could presume.
Actually , he said cocaine. Crack cocaine is a far more dangerous form.
Radio 4's Today programme suggested that crack cocaine is increasingly used as a recreational intoxicant by the middle classes.
The Today Programme is one of the UK's flagship radio programmes. So how wrong can they be? It's not the University students that need worrying about - they have aspirations after all.
But if the middle class professionals become unaspirational enough to take crack.....
[ January 05, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally posted by Bela Bardak:
...the way I see many Brits abuse alchohol leads me to think it's one of the worst national plagues. The Italians and French handle it better I think though not the Germans. Even the US seems to have less of a problem with it than the UK....
I often wonder why we drink so much in the UK. We start young, maybe that's one reason and binge drinking by teenagers and young adults is an increasing problem in the UK apparently. Some people blame our war time licensing laws, claiming that because pubs closing at 11pm we *have* to drink more, more quickly, but I'm not convinced - its something deeper than that. It probably doesn't help that its seen as *cool* to have a night out where you are completely wasted, do outrageous things and only remember half of it.
Drinking is linked to socialising in all societies so it can't be blamed on a pub/bar culture. When I lived in Cambridge I was close to alot of small independent pubs, very pleasant places where the emphasis wasn't on getting rat-arsed. Some were even 100% non-smoking environments and had a "no mobile phones" rule! Its mainly the pubs in town centres that get the pre-clubbing crowds that aim to get pissed ASAP, places with lots of cheap booze and special offers on alco-pops and shots (run by JD Witherspoon for example, horrible places with sticky tables and nasty, salty food).
We should certainly do more to stop underaged drinking. I was managing to get drunk from about 16 years old. I agree most people grow out of exessive drinking but those that have cut down probably still drink more than is healthy.
 
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It's simple laziness I think. The only way people know to have fun is to get completely wasted. I'm sure the weather doesn't help either.
 
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1340
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Originally posted by Tim Baker:
It's simple laziness I think. The only way people know to have fun is to get completely wasted. I'm sure the weather doesn't help either.
That could be it. I'm thinking of that old Fast Show sketch done in black and white, like some Bergman film, everyone looking all miserable or staring at the ceiling. Then in walks Paul Whitehouse with the phrase "anyone fancy a pint?"
 
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand
Posts: 541
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/01/week_1/07_spliff.html
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 580
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I welcome the downgrading. Pot is far more social drug than either alcohol or tobacco. Legal would be better but this is a step in the right direction imho. Hopefully the police can now use their time more effectively.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 451
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The fact is our idiot US drug laws make no distinction whatsoever between use and abuse, even if all they do is have a smoke, listen to some music, eat some munchies. and fall asleep. All pot use is considered abuse. In the meantime, many multiple repeat offender drunk drivers go free time and time again to kill to maim thoussands of people every year.
The politicians pretend to do something about drunk driving by lowering the blood alcohol level but they do nothing much about the real abusers, the liquor industries best customers. They then pass tough drug laws to punish (not rehabilitate) the evil pot addicts so that they can spend large amounts of their lives in prison living off the taxpayers. Well, at least it creates jobs for REAL Americans. The real beauty of it is that it gives the pot smokers are doing a public service by giving them somebody to blame when their stupid, lazy kids screw up their lives: i.e. their evil pot smoking hoodlum friends.
The US populace is happy as long as the politicians tell them the lies that they want to hear, i.e. the pot smokers are all evil pawns of Osama, Saddam, and the world terrorist organizations who sell them their drugs.
Of course, if the pot smokers just grew their own they wouldn't have to consort with any criminals, but that might harm the tobacco and liquor industries. If they get caught growing their own, then the government will confiscate their home without any trial, conviction, or due process. Welcome to "the land of the free, the home of the brave."

[ January 08, 2004: Message edited by: Ken Krebs ]
[ January 08, 2004: Message edited by: Ken Krebs ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 225
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:

I often wonder why we drink so much in the UK.


Its not just a British thing:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-956703,00.html
I suspect some of it is related to climate - dark and cold encourages people to drink more ( think Russia, UK, Scandanavia, Ireland ), whereas warm light evenings of the mediterranean encourage lingering over a drink and not rushing ( think France, Spain, Italy ).
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic