Cultural differences

[HS Thomas]

The biggest obstacle to working on global projects is overcoming cultural differences. Culture and Experience influence people�s perceptions of places and regions. And it's the perceptions that form the basis of reality in anyone's mind.
For example, consider the use of these words.
American don't take their families to a bar to my knowledge ; whereas the English would take their families to a pub for lunch. But the Indians that go to pubs don't.

          American
English   English    India    China   Brazil   
=======   =======    =====    =====   ====== 
pub       bar        pub      bar      ???
chips     fries      
crisps    chips
Hello     Hi         Hai      hello    ???
Thank you Thanks     
Beg your
Pardon    Sorry      So Sorry Excuse 
Goodbye   Bye        Bye      Bye     
    
to my 
knowledge AFAIK      I know

[ January 15, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Rufus BugleWeed]

AFIAK -
When I was a kid I loved to go a bar. You can count on a great burger and fries. There's this smokey character there too that's ...
These are language differences.
My Bangledeshi friend, he remarked how American kids are taught to line up. Cutting in line in America can be punished by assault or even death. I did not get the impression it was that way in Bangladesh.

[Ken Krebs]

English Amer. India China Brazil   
========================= 
  bog    head      ?       ?       ?

Anybody ? :roll:
[ January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Ken Krebs ]

[Jim Yingst]

Adding to the confusion, there's often more than one word that may be appropriate for a given position in HST's table. I wouldn't want our non-American poesters here to think that they mustn't use "Hello" when they visit the US, for example. Just for the American English part:
"Hi" or "Hello" are equally acceptable. Other variants like "Howdy" or "Hey" may also be encountered.
"Thanks" or "Thank you" are equally acceptable.
"Excuse me" seems most common, followed by "Pardon me", "Sorry", and "Out of the way, dammit!"
As for Ken's post, it's the "head" in the Navy or Marines, a "latrine" in the Army, (dunno about Air Force), a "bathroom" in a house, and a "rest room" in a business or public place. Or "toilet" anywhere outside the military. Or plenty of other term with varying degrees of politeness. The problem is that people often learn to euphemize this one, e.g. saying "bathroom" when it's not the bath they need. While "bog" and "head: also have other meanings completely unrelated to the toilet. So there's an extra layer of confusion for some of these terms...
[ January 15, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[HS Thomas]

Sounds of disgust -

yuck     sh*t      chi-chi

Looking for the Chinese and Brazil equivalent is a bit tricky.
I think this is the Russian equivalent :
"Ohh!" (imitates the sound of disgust). Sounds too tame for Russian, eh ?
Of course , what may seem like disgusting sounds *in* some are really sounds of acute appreciation in higher echelons of society I'm told.
Colonel Gaddafi used to ,a lot, while being interviewed by bemused world reporters.
Challenge for y'all :
Someone save this thread from going downhill rapidly.
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[fred rosenberger]

I don't think it's really this simple. I've gone to a place here, in St. Louis, that i would classify as a "bar". lot's of families go there for dinner, but bar policy is that all minors be out by 9pm.
Other bars don't let minors in at all.
in parts of the U.S., "How ya doin'?" or "How are you?" mean "hello". As can "what's up?". We're not literally asking about one's health or well being.
an extremely common term for a bathroom/restroom/toilet is "John" (usually in reference to a public men's room, which is another common term... "Where is the Men's/Ladie's room?"

[Frank Silbermann]

When I was a kid, I was amazed that women would buy "Eau de Toilette." I assumed it meant, "Eeeugh! The toilet!" (Like one might say upon seeing a nasty overflow onto the floor.)

[SJ Adnams]

brazil
pub - bar
chips (fries) - battata frittas
crisps - chips?
hello - oi
thank you - obrigado
beg your pardon (nobody says that) - ?
goodbye - tchau
i know - intende

[HS Thomas]

English and American     Indian                 China       Brazil
=====================    ======                 =====       ======
slabs of ground cow     non-vegetarians the   same with     Whole  
on bread with hands     same&use fork+knife   chopsticks    cow
                                                            BBQd

Now who'd admit to attacking a Nan or Paratha with utensils!
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Thomas Paul]

In the US, "bar" and "pub" are both used although "bar" is more common. The term "bar/restaraunt" is sometimes used to describe a place that features both.

[SJ Adnams]

English and American     Indian  
=====================    ======  
slabs of ground cow      double cow
on bread with hands      roti
 

[Sadanand Murthy]

          American
English   English    India    China   Brazil   
=======   =======    =====    =====   ====== 
pub       bar        pub      bar      ???
chips     fries      
crisps    chips
Hello     Hi         Hai      hello    ???
Thank you Thanks     
Beg your
Pardon    Sorry      So Sorry Excuse 
Goodbye   Bye        Bye      Bye     
    
to my 
knowledge AFAIK      I know

[ January 15, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

---

</blockquote>
HS, how could you miss:

          American
English   English    India    China   Brazil   
=======   =======    =====    =====   ====== 
Biscuit   Cookie     Biscuit   ???     ???
Bun       Biscuit    Bun       ???     ???
Rubber    Eraser     Rubber    ???     ???

[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]

[Jim Yingst]

There are quite a few compilations of US/British info already. E.g.
http://www.peak.org/~jeremy/dictionary/dict.html
http://www.effingpot.com/
http://english2american.com/
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/2284/
Or more generally
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=american+british+english+dictionary&btnG=Google+Search
which of course is where I got the other links.

[HS Thomas]

OK , Who is the coolest elf in LOTR across the mini cultural board ?
=======
The cave-dwelling hobbit turned bad was voted the fave movie monster by thousands of film fans.
He beat Yoda from Star Wars and ET.
Gollum is the British coolest elf. ( I doubt anyone from the other countries would care to visit the BBC site to vote for their favourite elf.)
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[HS Thomas]

This seems to be the American favourite.
Legolas Greenleaf (Orlando Bloom)
Frodo in India. Yet to check China's favourite and I suspect Brazil's would be Legolas too.
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Jim Yingst]

[HS]: OK , Who is the coolest elf in LOTR across the mini cultural board?
I'm not sure what you mean, since Gollum isn't an elf, and Yoda is in a different series of movies entirely. (And isn't an elf, though he's sort of the Star Wars equivalent of one, as much as Gollum anyway.) Are you asking favorite LotR character regardless of race? Favorite nonhuman character in any movie? Favorite character under four feet in height? (Guess that eliminates the actual elves in LotR.)
Legolas was cool, though his over-the-top oliphaunt assault in the last movie was a bit much. I guess it was put in to sompensate for the fact that he have somewhat less screen time than in the previous movies. Too many new characters. Gimli was equally cool in the books, but was mostly just comic relief in the films. I did like one new scene near the end of the extended edition of The Two Towers, where Gimli gets the best of Legolas for once. Even if hearing a dwarf refer to an orc's "nervous system" doesn't quite fit the milieu.
Gollum on the other hand was mostly just annoying to me in the books. But I actually found myself liking him in the movies at times.
[HS]: This seems to be the American favourite.
Legolas Greenleaf (Orlando Bloom)
Yeah, he seems the audience favorite here. Plus unlike Gollum he actually is an elf.
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Alan Labout]

Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Sounds of disgust -

yuck     sh*t      chi-chi

I think this is the Russian equivalent :
"Ohh!" (imitates the sound of disgust).
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

Actually, the better equivalent would be "fu!"

[HS Thomas]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
[HS]: OK , Who is the coolest elf in LOTR across the mini cultural board?
I'm not sure what you mean, since Gollum isn't an elf, and Yoda is in a different series of movies entirely. (And isn't an elf, though he's sort of the Star Wars equivalent of one, as much as Gollum anyway.) Are you asking favorite LotR character regardless of race? Favorite nonhuman character in any movie? Favorite character under four feet in height? (Guess that eliminates the actual elves in LotR.)

To include Gollum who seems to be a Brit favourite lets change it to
Who is the coolest elf or hobbit (The Little People )in LOTR across the mini cultural board ? The mini cultural board being the one described in the first posts not Middle Earth.
"Oh what a tangled web they weave who try a new word to conceive!" JRRT
The Chinese favourite could be Jennifer Lopez.

[Jim Yingst]

[HST]: Who is the coolest elf or hobbit (The Little People) in LOTR across the mini cultural board ?
Oh, sure. Go right one ignoring the poor Dwarves of course. :roll: Oppressor! Equal time for Gimli!

[Dan Chisholm]

Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Americans don't take their families to a bar to my knowledge; whereas the English would take their families to a pub for lunch.

In my daughter's preschool class, there was a boy with parents that own an English style family pub. One Saturday, I took the family there for lunch and my daughter's friend from school was there also. He and my daughter ended up sitting at the bar drinking milk and watching cartoons on the television. It was really cute.

[HS Thomas]

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:

In my daughter's preschool class, there was a boy with parents that own an English style family pub. One Saturday, I took the family there for lunch and my daughter's friend from school was there also. He and my daughter ended up sitting at the bar drinking milk and watching cartoons on the television. It was really cute.

Milk parlours sound uniquely American. Or Italian American where they serve ice-cream.
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Tony Collins]

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:

In my daughter's preschool class, there was a boy with parents that own an English style family pub. One Saturday, I took the family there for lunch and my daughter's friend from school was there also. He and my daughter ended up sitting at the bar drinking milk and watching cartoons on the television. It was really cute.

I think this is because pubs in England are associated with community, I'm not sure if it is the same in the states.
Tony

[Davy Kelly]

Please people, do you mean England or Britain?
what about us Scots, the Irish and teh Welsh? we are all part of Britain!!!
and I thought elves were tall and skinny???
I hate Frodo, he is annoying, but I think gollum/smeagol is the best character.
davy

[Richard Hawkes]

I kept thinking Frodo's eyes were going to fall out.
Everytime Legolas appeared on screen it seemed all the women in the audience sighed then giggled in unison. It made me chuckle. Time to get out those old Spock ears...

[Falana Dhimkana]

Originally posted by Davy Kelly:
Please people, do you mean England or Britain?
what about us Scots, the Irish and teh Welsh? we are all part of Britain!!!
davy

Davy,
I have some completely off-topic questions but I am genuinely interested in finding out things. Its probably very obvious to Europeans but I was wondering if you can clarify
1. What is a Britain? A country? A kingdom? Or a republic (unlikely)?
2. What is the relation between Ireland, Scotland etc with Britain? i.e. Is it a symbolic relationship or is there more to it?
3. What is United Kingdom?
I wonder if many people in Asia or US understand the difference between Britain/England/UK

[Jim Yingst]

[Tony]: I think this is because pubs in England are associated with community, I'm not sure if it is the same in the states.
Yes to some extent, but it's a community of drinkers. Children don't fit in so well. (Insert discussion of comparative attitudes toward drinking, yadda yadda...)
[Davy]: Please people, do you mean England or Britain?
what about us Scots, the Irish and teh Welsh? we are all part of Britain!!!
Since you put it that way, aren't there quite a few Irish who are not part of Britain?
Plus there are a bunch of other English-speakers who are neither American nor British, but probably deserve to be on HST's table more than Brazil and China. I mean, nothing against Brazil and China, but I don't see how it's useful to compare Portuguese and Chinese to various English dialects. Which is probably why those slots on the table are mostly blank. Or was the idea that there are enough English speakers in those countries that they have their own English dialect that's worth discussing? India I can see, sure, but dunno about Brazil and China.
[HST]: Who is the coolest elf or hobbit (The Little People) in LOTR across the mini cultural board ?
To provide my own answer, since I hadn't: Sam.
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Richard Hawkes]

Originally posted by Falana Dhimkana:
1. What is a Britain? A country? A kingdom? Or a republic (unlikely)?
2. What is the relation between Ireland, Scotland etc with Britain? i.e. Is it a symbolic relationship or is there more to it?
3. What is United Kingdom?

Britain comprises Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland, and is one of the 15 member states of the European Union (EU). Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Britain constitutes the greater part of the British Isles. The largest of the islands is Great Britain. The next largest comprises Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Western Scotland is fringed by the large island chain known as the Hebrides, and to the north east of the Scottish mainland are the Orkney and Shetland Islands. All these, along with the Isle of Wight, Anglesey and the Isles of Scilly have administrative ties with the mainland, but the Isle of Man in the Irish Sea and the Channel Islands, between Great Britain and France are largely self-governing and are not part of the United Kingdom.
Although the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not part of the United Kingdom they have a special relationship with it. The Channel Islands were part of the Duchy of Normandy in the 10th and 11th centuries and remained subject to the English Crown after the final loss of Normandy to the French in the 15th century. The Isle of Man was under the nominal sovereignty of Norway until 1266 and eventually came under the direct administration of the British Crown in 1765. Today the territories have their own legislative assemblies and systems of law, the Isle of Man also has its own system of taxation. The British Government is responsible for their international relations and external defence.

http://www.visitbritain.com/facts_figures/name.htm
I wonder if many people in Asia or US understand the difference between Britain/England/UK - Actually some people in England have a hard time remembering the difference! Much to the disgust of the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Some even fail to distinguish between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

[HS Thomas]

[HST]: Who is the coolest elf or hobbit (The Little People) in LOTR across the mini cultural board ?
Jim Yingst : To provide my own answer, since I hadn't: Sam.

Hobbit, Frodo's humble servant.
Why Sam ?
Brazil and China are on the table because, on global projects they are the most likely to be interacted with. Russia should have been added by the same token. We could have included Australia and Canada I suppose. I should add SJ Ponsardin's replies for Brazil which was what I was expecting someone to post for China.
Actually I was looking for Englishisms (Britishisms) or Americanisms
that the Chinese or Brazilians use. It would have helped if I had stated that earlier. Assume nothing! )

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:

Actually some people in England have a hard time remembering the difference! Much to the disgust of the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Some even fail to distinguish between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

[b]Little Britain
[ January 16, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[HS Thomas]

Originally posted by Davy Kelly:
Please people, do you mean England or Britain?
what about us Scots, the Irish and teh Welsh? we are all part of Britain!!!
and I thought elves were tall and skinny???
I hate Frodo, he is annoying, but I think gollum/smeagol is the best character.
davy

Which confirms the post that Gollum is Britain's favourite. I think this is a cultural difference.

[HS Thomas]

another example of words that show cultural difference.
"the role "conbinis" (convenience stores) play in promoting e-commerce among consumers in Japan.
Where you can pick up goods ordered on-line but I guess the west is less wary of direct marketing so Americans and British tend to order on-line directly :

British      American       Indian     China   Brazil            
=======      ========       ======     =====   ======
shop         store          bazaar     shop    

"Takeyuki Ikezaki, a 21-year-old Japanese college student, got a dose of culture shock on a recent trip to the United States.
"My friends and I went to a convenience store late at night but it was closed," he said. "I couldn't believe it."
That doesn't happen in his native country, where ubiquitous Seven-Eleven, Lawson and other neighbourhood stores are open around the clock, offering everything from cigarettes to postage stamps to adult Japanese comic books."
Japan's `conbinis'
conbini: one of the best tourist spots in Japan. They should put that on those tour guide books they' re handing out to the gaijins visitin here. Where else could you find a nice and clean store open 24/7, with 24/7 working ATM' s?!? stupid staffs sayin " irasshaimase~!" whenever you come in, " arigatou gozaimashitaaa~h" when you step out.... yeah, thats a very good place to learn jpns culture....
washlets: the best thing in the world!!! i was shocked when I 1st went to the states and didn' t see any washlets @ Denny' s nor IHOP' s
Washlets ???
The Japanese have funny computer peripherals :
Things that attach to your PC to keep your tea piping hot. To follow, the USB toaster and waffle maker.

[ January 17, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

[Pradeep bhatt]

HS,
Bar is used in India but I see that in bigger cities they call it a Pub.
I used to call it a Bar before I came to Bangalore.

British      American       Indian     China   Brazil            =======      ========       ======     =====   ======
shop         store          bazaar     shop    
 

Bazaar is mainly used in North India, I guess. I use "shop".

BTW, where did collect the info?
[ January 17, 2004: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

[HS Thomas]

By searching and using lots of umagination
The Chinese would call a store a dim or a pou I think.

[Davy Kelly]

My post about the Irish was meant for the northern part, because I was referring to the people, but I think it would be uncool to say the norhtern irish, as they are still irish!
I really like the above post by Richard Hawkes he explains it perfectly, But i would like to explain it in an easier term. Think about the United States of America, there are 52 States but one America well in britain there are 4 countries but one britain. A Californian is not a New Yorker, and the Welsh are not English.
But getting back to different sayings:
English American Spanish Scottish
Hello Hi Hola Awrite big man!
Please don't Stop it No por favor Gonnae no dae tha'

[Davy Kelly]

quote from my last post was meant to look like this.

English American Spanish Scottish
Hello Hi Hola Awrite big man!
Please don't Stop it No por favor Gonnae no dae tha'

[Davy Kelly]

but it might even have looked like this:

  
[B]
English        American     Spanish         Scottish [/B]
Hello          Hi           Hola            Awrite big man!
Please don't   Stop it      No por favor    Gonnae no dae tha'

I hope this time it looks right

[Jim Yingst]

[HST]: Who is the coolest elf or hobbit (The Little People) in LOTR across the mini cultural board ?
[Jim]: To provide my own answer, since I hadn't: Sam.
[HST]: Hobbit, Frodo's humble servant.
Why Sam ?
Sam is the one who keeps everything together and makes sure that the quest gets completed without them getting killed. He's easily overlooked, he doesn't have a mitril coat or elven sword, or magic powers, or years of training. Or a magic ring for that matter. But do not mess with a hobbit who can successfully fight off a spider the size of a truck. Well OK, he may have had a borrowed elven sword during that fight (I think). But at least he used it a lot better than Frodo did. I suppose it helped that his exposure to the Ring was minimal, so he didn't turn into a loser like the other two.
Gollum is very cool as a technical and acting accomplishment, but not so cool as a character. An interesting and well-written character, but not "cool" IMO. Hard to be cool when you're simpering and pitiable. My favorite Gollum moment is when he's griping at Sam about the proper way to eat rabbit.

[Tony Collins]

I personally think the Welsh need their own classification, I've never met such a nutty race.
Tony

[Davy Kelly]

Please don't say anymore about LOTR 3, I have not seen it yet!!!
Davy

[Ernest Friedman-Hill]

Think about the United States of America, there are 52 States but one America

I must've been napping. When did we sign up two more states?

[Jim Yingst]

Oops.
In other news, the chick in The Crying Game is really a man. When the kid says "I can see dead people" he's not kidding. Keyser Söze is the narrator. Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father. And "Rosebud"... is... a sled!!!
Now Davy, it's the weekend, so get away from your computer and go see RotK.