Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I could never vote for a man who spoke at the same anti-war rally as Jane Fonda. So if Kerry wins the Dem nomination, for me at least it would pretty much limit my choices.
The sword of destiny has two blades, one of them is you.
John Kerry, the candidate for president that we see today, appears in his thinking to be very much like the John Kerry who first showed himself nationally as an angry Vietnam veteran of the 1970's. But he is smoother and slicker, much smarter, more sophisticated, and experienced in Congress where he fine-tuned his hypocritical tendencies and developed his political skills.
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I could never vote for a man who spoke at the same anti-war rally as Jane Fonda. So if Kerry wins the Dem nomination, for me at least it would pretty much limit my choices.
Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
Bush was fine tuning his skills while Kerry was lugging a pack and an M-16 through SE Asia.
I think something that happened more than 30 years ago is irrelevant. That is why I don't care about Kerry being a war hero or Bush being in the National Guard. Who cares?Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
But does everyone who shares these sentiments expressed in Jason's post believe that one cannot be redeemed?
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Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
A guy who serves in the guard so he can get out of military service has no right to boast a glorious military record. No doubt it's better than running off to Canada. But the government training him to be a pilot so that he does not have to go in harms, because he was the son of a Congressman is the two Americas.
George Bush is strong on defense. Strong on sending the brothers to die, so the Bechtels and the Hallibutons can fleece the taxpayers.
Jason is there any chance you are employed in the military-industrial complex?
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
A guy who serves in the guard so he can get out of military service has no right to boast a glorious military record. No doubt it's better than running off to Canada. But the government training him to be a pilot so that he does not have to go in harms, because he was the son of a Congressman is the two Americas.
Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
People change. And 30 years is a long time. People change radically, dramatically in 30 years. Bush used to be an alcoholic. He certainly changed. My point is just because someone did something or didn't do something 30 years ago is to a large extent irrelevant. However, what is eminently more germane is what would that person do when faced with certain issues/events now, not 30 years ago.
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
However, others who until now have been pro-Bush, but for whom jobs are even more important than terrorism, are already beginning to waver. And in the meantime, other than the foreign poilcy fiasco, there's really no momentum building against Kerry.
Every day people continue to be out of work, every time an adminstration idjut talks about "global economies", every day the occupation continues in Iraq, all of these are constant drags on the administration. And unless something dramatic happens, the President is in real trouble.
Joe
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
3. Iraq announces a Democratic government and American troops are able to pull out without the country collapsing into civil war.
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
(Pakistan voluntarily shutting down its nuke program, soemthing like that).
Joe
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
But to this observer, it's beginning to look a lot like a single term for the President.
Joe
Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
Kerry served his time; came home and exercised his free speech.
Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
when looking at his history it makes me as a voter wonder if that is an extension of his anti-war activities. It should be noted though that he did vote in favor of action in Iraq this time around, although he voted against the first time. So it's hard to say with him. How does a voter know?
Commentary From the Sidelines of history
You heard incorrectly. Bush joined the National Guard in 1968. My brother was drafted in 1968 and sent to Vietnam in 1969. Bush and my brother actually got out of college and were eligible for the draft at the same time.Originally posted by Frank Silbermann:
I heard that Bush joined the National Guard after we stopped sending soldiers to Vietnam. If that's true, he didn't avoid anything by going; but by becoming a pilot he took on duty that is dangerous even in peacetime.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I think something that happened more than 30 years ago is irrelevant. That is why I don't care about Kerry being a war hero or Bush being in the National Guard. Who cares?
-George SantayanaThis who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Howard Kushner<br />IBM Certified Enterprise Developer - WebSphere Studio Application Developer V5.0<br />IBM Certified Advanced System Administrator - WebSphere Application Server V5.0<br />IBM Certified Solution Developer - Web Services with WebSphere Studio V5.1<br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931182108/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Developing J2EE Applications with WebSphere Studio</a> my Certification Study Guide for IBM Test 287
Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
People change. And 30 years is a long time. People change radically, dramatically in 30 years. Bush used to be an alcoholic. He certainly changed. My point is just because someone did something or didn't do something 30 years ago is to a large extent irrelevant. However, what is eminently more germane is what would that person do when faced with certain issues/events now, not 30 years ago.
Howard Kushner<br />IBM Certified Enterprise Developer - WebSphere Studio Application Developer V5.0<br />IBM Certified Advanced System Administrator - WebSphere Application Server V5.0<br />IBM Certified Solution Developer - Web Services with WebSphere Studio V5.1<br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931182108/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Developing J2EE Applications with WebSphere Studio</a> my Certification Study Guide for IBM Test 287
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I don't know about the photograph one way or the other. All I know is that he appeared at anti-war rallies with Jane Fonda.
John Kerry: A Peacenik for President?
Much has been made of a possible connection between Kerry and Jane Fonda after recent widespread publication of a picture of him sitting behind Fonda at an anti-war rally on Labor Day, 1971, in Valley Forge Pennsylvania.� Kerry, then a head of the radical anti-war group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, allegedly worked closely with Fonda on two war protests:� the September 1970 rally in Valley Forge where Fonda and Kerry spoke from the back of the same pickup truck, and a January 1971 protest in Detroit which they called the ''Winter Soldier Investigation.
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Jason, everyone knew the National Guard service was safe. There was zero chance that the Guard would be called up for service in Vietnam. Not a single member of the Guard was called up for active duty in Vietnam during the war.
On May 13, 1968, 12,234 Army National Guardsmen in 20 units from 17 states were mobilized for service during the Vietnam War. Eight units deployed to Vietnam and over 7,000 Army Guardsmen served in the war zone. (source)
The 120th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Colorado Air National Guard, arrived at Phan Rang Air Base, South Vietnam, during the concluding days of the second Viet Cong offensive of 1968. The squadron was ordered into active federal service as a result of the Pueblo incident in January 1968, along with three other F-100 tactical fighter squadrons: 136th Tactical Fighter Squadron, New York, 174th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Iowa, 188th Tactical Fighter Squadron, New Mexico. (source)
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Following this logic, since the picture in question is not a fake, then the article must be reliable.
Joe
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
[b]
Oh please. It's a typo. In the very next sentence the writer refers to "the September 1970 rally in Valley Forge". Your statement was far more inaccurate than the writer's.
In any event, your statement does nothing to distance Senator Kerry from the VVAW, which as I said is more disturbing than any casual relationship with Jane Fonda.
Joe
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
In any event, your statement does nothing to distance Senator Kerry from the VVAW, which as I said is more disturbing than any casual relationship with Jane Fonda.
Joe[/QB]
Commentary From the Sidelines of history
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