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I'm pretty sure someone asked "who is next?" in the war on terror. And I think a few people here said Syria. You win the "pick a terrorist state" sweepstakes! Grand Prize is an all-expense paid vacation to the mountains of Afghanistan!
The Bush administration will soon impose tough sanctions against Syria, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
Washington maintains that Syria sponsors terrorism, is developing unconventional weapons, and has failed to stop anti-American fighters from crossing into Iraq. The United States also accuses Syria of occupying Lebanon.

Joe
 
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
I'm pretty sure someone asked "who is next?" in the war on terror. And I think a few people here said Syria. You win the "pick a terrorist state" sweepstakes! Grand Prize is an all-expense paid vacation to the mountains of Afghanistan!
The Bush administration will soon impose tough sanctions against Syria, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
Washington maintains that Syria sponsors terrorism, is developing unconventional weapons, and has failed to stop anti-American fighters from crossing into Iraq. The United States also accuses Syria of occupying Lebanon.

Joe


I suppose the build up of rethoric would reach its pitch in Sept-Nov 2004
[what a coincidence Presidential elections are slated in the us during that period i suppose ]
[ March 10, 2004: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]
 
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I'm not sure that even America could really afford another war at the moment. I cant remember the exact figure, but the war in Iraq has cost incredible amounts of money. Maybe in a year or so when the American army pulls out of Iraq, it could nip accross the border into Syria and do its stuff there.
I think the ones they'd really like to get are Iran and N Korea, but there's not much chance of that. Iran would be far harder than Syria to take on, and its far more likely to have nukes, and it would be incredibly stupid to attack N Korea unless they want half of Japan and South Korea to dissapear. I'd say that Syria is odds on favourite....
 
Devesh H Rao
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Originally posted by Joe King:
I'd say that Syria is odds on favourite....



We are talking about countries and war and lives lost in here or is war on terrorism some kind of game we play on sony playstation or in the local clubhouse ?
 
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You win the "pick a terrorist state" sweepstakes! Grand Prize is an all-expense paid vacation to the mountains of Afghanistan!


Hmmm. It depends. You could wind up with an all-expense paid vacation in Cuba.....
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Don Stadler ]
 
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
I'm pretty sure someone asked "who is next?" in the war on terror. And I think a few people here said Syria.

Woo hoo! I win!
 
Joe Pluta
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is war on terrorism some kind of game we play on sony playstation?
Xbox.
Joe
 
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what if in another osama friendly forum they played their who_s-next-game?
Today, could have been Madrid (doesn't seem that it was eta).
This thread should be closed. IMHO
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]
 
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:
This thread should be closed. IMHO


Unless I'm missing something, I can't see any reason this thread should be closed at this time.
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
Axel Janssen
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To my holier-than-thou-washed-european-brain it appears kind of cynical to speak this way about next possible war zone, especially on a day when the war against terror may have cost 170 lifes + 900 inherited in Madrid.
 
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Axel,
To me Germany seems like the next target for Al-Qaeda.. the way your radical population is growing. What is the public opinion in Germany about the growing islamic community? [comments edited by moderator]
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
Joe Pluta
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AJ: To my holier-than-thou-washed-european-brain it appears kind of cynical to speak this way about next possible war zone, especially on a day when the war against terror may have cost 170 lifes + 900 inherited in Madrid.
Wait a second here, big guy. The war on terror didn't cost ANYTHING in Madrid. I can accept the fact that soldiers and civilians were lost in the liberation of Iraq; those are deaths that can be attributed to the war on terror. But the blasts in Madrid are SOLELY because of the terrorists, and the people who support them, either directly (as in Syria) or indirectly (such as people who blame America for terrorists who blow up civilians).
Sorry, Axel, but I accept no blame for Basque separatists blowing up trains. Perhaps if they knew they weren't getting sympathy they might be less willing to do it. In fact, to my way of thinking, European sympathizers have WAY more blood on their hands for these attacks than does the Bush Administration. You want to blame someone? Look in the mirror.
Joe
 
Axel Janssen
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Hi Paul,
despite of an overall very sad economic picture there is no radicalization of the population. There are very, very view isolated neonazis. 0.2% or so and of them - I think - 60% sponsored by our secret service for internal observation.
Democracy has taken strong roots in this country.
Lots of the turkish people are not very well integrated, but there is no wave of anti-turkish-attitude from the germans.
The few neonazis seem to tend to team up with the turkish radicals to fight "american imperialism", I think, but overwhelming mayority don't likes both.
Overall people seems to be in a pensive mood. There will be some backlashes, but I am quite confident that we are now going through a phase of lots of partly painfull reforms.
Axel
 
Axel Janssen
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@Joe,
wait a second here, big father,
1. we don't know if it was ETA. Herri Batasuna (ETA-friendly party) says no. And as far as I know ETA allways did confirm authorship of their crimes.
2. ETA is a criminal organization. Overwhelming mayority of europeans does not support criminal organization.
3. I did not blame anyone accept those who commited the crime. Why on hell should I blame Bush Administration?
4. Following your definition of victims atributed to war on terror, those who died on 09-11 were not victims of war on terror.
5. Aznar government supported americans in war against Saddam.
Axel

PS. I don't consider myself neither very anti-Bush nor anti-american, so you may opt to save your energy for more fullfilling activity, but to attribute opinions to me, which are not mine.
 
Paul McKenna
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I'm willing to wager that Al-Qaeda has a hand in this. Why wouldnt they? Spain has sent troops to Iraq..
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Paul McKenna ]
 
Joe Pluta
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Following your definition of victims atributed to war on terror, those who died on 09-11 were not victims of war on terror.
That is correct. The people who died on 9/11 were not casualties of the war on terror. They were murdered by terrorists. The war on terrorism is an attempt to STOP these sorts of attacks. Do you see the difference?
Joe
 
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Originally posted by Joe King:
Maybe in a year or so when the American army pulls out of Iraq, ...


Quite an assumption there. I don't expect America out of Iraq for a VERY long time. Well, unless Bush loses.
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Gregg Bolinger ]
 
Jason Menard
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The US military will likely retain a sizable presence in Iraq for a good ten years or so.
 
Paul McKenna
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
I'm willing to wager that Al-Qaeda has a hand in this. Why wouldnt they? Spain has sent troops to Iraq..
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Paul McKenna ]


Tada!! Vindication.. (looks like listening to Rush is making me right!)
Quran found in the van, Al Qaeda claims responsibility for Spain bombings
 
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
But the blasts in Madrid are SOLELY because of the terrorists, and the people who support them, either directly (as in Syria) or indirectly (such as people who blame America for terrorists who blow up civilians).
...
Joe


Spoke too soon, ey? BBC News
Very very sad, indeed! Spain was just on the right track (tourism, EU)! Yet another example to show how important solving the Middle East Crisis is to our world! Well, and filling the divide of mistrust between these two prominent (West & the MiddleEast) worlds.
 
Joe Pluta
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Spoke too soon, ey?
What do you mean? Are we now going to blame every Al-Qaeda terrorist act on America? This is the height of lunacy. That's like blaming cops for drug dealers shooting cops.
Sorry, but Al-Qaeda and their ilk were murdering civilians well before the US stepped in to try and put an end to them. To now blame subsequent attacks on the US is illogical.
Joe
 
Joe Pluta
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and filling the divide of mistrust between these two prominent (West & the MiddleEast) worlds
This an interesting phrase. It's as if you're saying the enmity is mutual; that blowing up TEN BOMBS in civilian train stations is just the result of some mutual misunderstanding.
There's nothing mutual about this. Neither I nor any of my friends "mistrust" Middle Easterners. When I grew up, one of our closest family friends was an Arabian family - I learned that the words "breaking bread" had a real meaning, since the family did not cut bread with a knife. In all my years of growing up, I was taught repeatedly by my parents to NEVER judge another person by their skin, their money, their gender, or their religion. I, like nearly every child I grew up with, was taught that people are people.
There is nothing mutual about how we are brought up. I was never taught to strap myself with dynamite and walk into a disco, or to plant bombs in train stations. I wasn't taught to murder women and children who didn't share my faith. I was taught to embrace ALL faiths, all peoples, regardless of their creed or culture. And I believed that. It wasn't until 9/11 that I started looking differently at people who spoke in Middle Eastern dialects.
Do NOT tell me this is some sort of mutual misunderstanding. If 9/11 didn't do it, then today's events have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the people behind these acts are not civilized people in any sense of the word. This is not about Islam, it is about hatred. It is not about the Middle East, it is about murder.
If it turns out this was the work of Al-Qaeda, and if the entire Middle East doesn't rise up as one and condemn these brutal senseless slayings without trying to somehow blame the West, if they don't do everything within their power to find and arrest these people - in short, if the Middle East doesn't assume responsibility for the blood of innocents washing through the streets of Madrid, then I don't see how they can expect to ever receive any respect from the rest of the world.
This is no longer about "the Great Satan", this is simply evil men with bombs killing women and children.
I beg of the entire Middle Eastern peoples to show yourselves as the great civilized nations you have been over the centuries. Find these butchers and turn them over to justice.
Joe
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]
 
Devesh H Rao
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
This is not about Islam, it is about hatred. It is not about the Middle East, it is about murder.
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Joe Pluta ]



It never was about any religion any ways. Any acts of terrorism always have a political connection somewhere. The problem in middle east is not bcoz of fight between islam and jews but between countries like syria,lebanon and Israel similarly the war between US and Afganistan/Iraq is not between islam and christianity. The conflict in kashmir is not between hindus/muslims but between Pakistan/India.
If the geopolitics take a backseat religions do coexist peacefully.
 
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Originally posted by Devesh H Rao:


It never was about any religion any ways. Any acts of terrorism always have a political connection somewhere. The problem in middle east is not bcoz of fight between islam and jews but between countries like syria,lebanon and Israel similarly the war between US and Afganistan/Iraq is not between islam and christianity. The conflict in kashmir is not between hindus/muslims but between Pakistan/India.
If the geopolitics take a backseat religions do coexist peacefully.


it may never have been solely about religion, but one of the reasons Osama had for hating US is that he felt the US being in Saudia Arabia was a violation because of the "holy" sites there, and he uses that excuse to raise supporters. So religion is definitely being used to help fuel the fire even if it wasn't the original cause.
 
Axel Janssen
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my deepest condolocense to casualities as families and friends.
Every act of terrorism is abominable be it from Al Quaeda or from ETA.
In spain are federal elections this weekend. There is a discussion that ETA attack would help the governing conservative Partido Popular whereas Al Quaeda attack would damage their results, because some people believe that responsible is Aznar who teamed up with Bush in Iraq war (against mayority of spanish population).
Iraq war might be or is a contentious issue. But participating in a war against a cruel dictator is an autonomous decision of a democratic government. Decision should never ever be influenced by horrible acts of some wacky terrorists.
European experience with 70ties left radical terrorism has shown that against terrorism helps only tough, unquestionable, united stand.
Russ Beattie has some interesting points in his notebook.
http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/
Amen Axel
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]
 
Devesh H Rao
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Originally posted by Damien Howard:
it may never have been solely about religion, but one of the reasons Osama had for hating US is that he felt the US being in Saudia Arabia was a violation because of the "holy" sites there, and he uses that excuse to raise supporters. So religion is definitely being used to help fuel the fire even if it wasn't the original cause.


Damien dont you think you have answered your question on your own.
Religion is always an excuse, politics is the motive.
It is wrong to blame a religion for the loss suffered coz religion never says kill anyone it is the followers or the people who "USE" it for personal gains and they need to be condemned.
We dont cut off the roots of a tree if it gets infected with parasites we just cut off the branches.
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Devesh H Rao ]

 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
Spoke too soon, ey?
What do you mean?


I was refering to this statement of yours - "The war on terror didn't cost ANYTHING in Madrid."
Are we now going to blame every Al-Qaeda terrorist act on America? This is the height of lunacy. That's like blaming cops for drug dealers shooting cops.
No, why would you think I am?
Sorry, but Al-Qaeda and their ilk were murdering civilians well before the US stepped in to try and put an end to them. To now blame subsequent attacks on the US is illogical.
Joe
I was not blaming America or its allies for a "Osama�s revenge" plot or anything of that sort. All I am saying is, as a member of a coalition that declared war on terrorism (its not just America who is fighting it as far as I know, and many of us ranchers in here were repeating that not so long ago, civilized world against murderers and terrorists � War on terror!). Now lets not ignore the fact that by aligning itself against Al-Queda and other terrorist groups, Spain is more likely to be targeted by terrorists than, say, Iran or North Korea.
I am not blaming anyone here, but the terrorists, however as long as we are not sure about who are behind this act of terror, being �not nice� (by Madrid explosions has nothing to do with War on Terror) is a bit arrogant, IMHO!
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
 
Paul McKenna
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WSJ.com pointed out the attacks took place on 3/11 anyone else notice the coincidence??? Hallmark of Al-Qaeda!
 
Joe Pluta
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I was refering to this statement of yours - "The war on terror didn't cost ANYTHING in Madrid."
I'm saying that this is not a cost of the war on terror. This is the cost of terrorism. There is a difference. The war on terror costs lives when our soldiers die or civilians die because of their actions. Terrorism costs lives when terrorists blow up bombs.
You're suggesting that the terrorists would never have blown up bombs in Madrid if it weren't for the war on terrorism. I say you have no way of knowing, because terrorists blow up bombs wherever they feel like it.
Joe
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:
European experience with 70ties left radical terrorism has shown that against terrorism helps only tough, unquestionable, united stand.


Somehow I've been left with the impression that the majority of Europeans feel their best course in the war on terror is to keep a low profile to try to avoid doing anything that might upset the terrorists and make them a target. Am I mistaken here?
 
Joe King
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
WSJ.com pointed out the attacks took place on 3/11 anyone else notice the coincidence??? Hallmark of Al-Qaeda!


Kind of, except that it happened in europe, so its 11/3.
 
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
WSJ.com pointed out the attacks took place on 3/11 anyone else notice the coincidence??? Hallmark of Al-Qaeda!


Even more chilling fact is that this happened exactly 911 days after the 9/11 in NY.
 
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Condolence to men who sacrifices their life.
BTW are we counting Iraq war as war on terror ???
It was not, but looks like terrorist got good excuse to attack anywhere anytime because of that war.
BTW has anyone thought to find some way to stop funding to these organisations.
Killing terrorist wont help because new terrorists will come till we dont stop the funding to these organisation.
 
Axel Janssen
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Originally posted by R K Singh:

It was not, but looks like terrorist got good excuse to attack anywhere anytime because of that war.


I fear they'll allways find "good" excuse for attack, with or without war in Iraq.
Or we have another "blaming US for everything" debate.
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by R K Singh:
BTW are we counting Iraq war as war on terror ???
It was not, but looks like terrorist got good excuse to attack anywhere anytime because of that war.


If the US says it's part of the war on terror - it's part of the war on terror. By the way, it is part of the war on terror, regardless of anyone's personal opinion on the subject. And you feel that terrorists have a good reason to murder innocent civillians anywhere anytime because we deposed one of the most brutal regimes in history? As if they needed any excuses to begin with. Saying that they have a good excuse is the same as excusing them for their acts imho.
 
R K Singh
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I would not like to debate how removing a dictator (let it be brutal) war is war on terror.

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

If the US says it's part of the war on terror - it's part of the war on terror.


I love you Jason.
And you feel that terrorists have a good reason to murder innocent civillians anywhere anytime because we deposed one of the most brutal regimes in history?
Sorry to say but currently it seems to be the only reason. I wish final findings suggest that it was the act of separatists.
Saying that they have a good excuse is the same as excusing them for their acts imho.
Dont take "good excuse" word in a literal sense.
 
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by R K Singh:
Sorry to say but currently it seems to be the only reason.


No, all the same reasons they've had for the past fifteen years or so still exist.

I wish final findings suggest that it was the act of separatists.


I can't see how the perpetrators being ETA makes the situation any better.
 
Jason Menard
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The comments from the various world newspapers on the horribly tragic events in Spain have been interesting. Particularly interesting IMHO are the comments from places that have been experiencing terrorism approaching this scale for some time now.

Europe, which only recently was still viewing America's 11 September or the blasts in Russia as things that only happen elsewhere, has been confronted with the most heinous crime in its entire postwar history.
- Russia's Nezavisimaya Gazeta


First there was September 11. Now there is also March 11. And in between, Indonesian, Kenyan, Turkish, Russian and Iraqi citizens were butchered in mass terrorist attacks. However, Western Europe for some reason thought itself immune, protected.
- Commentary by Sever Plutzker, Israel's Yedi'ot Aharonot


Hopefully they figure out who was responsible and bring them to justice soon. Hopefully those nations and the people of those nations whose heart isn't fully into what has to be done wake up and stop hindering the progress of the war on these people (by doing things such as releasing Sept 11 conspirators from custody for example).
 
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:

No, all the same reasons they've had for the past fifteen years or so still exist.


If you remember I said long back that terrorist dont see who you are, there only job is to spread terror by all means.
But terrorist are not insane people, they have their own non-sense objectives to do such acts.
Even though, one might not see this as a result of war on terror(I hate to call Iraq-war, war on terror) but others might have different view.
I think if one year have been spent in zeroing down and destroying the Al-Qaida network then that would have been more useful than removing a dictator.
I can't see how the perpetrators being ETA makes the situation any better.
Then it will have a color of freedom fighting.
Having said so, it does not make their heinous act less condemnable.
Before any assumption come in the mind, let me make it clear that I have no intention to blame any country for that monstrous incident.
Even I feel, now its time to unite all countries regardless of their geographical or political positions and fight it back. And that fight should be legal by all means and not towards one country or dictator but towards the terrorists and its supporters.
In that fight interpole, UN, EU, SAARC, NAM and other international agaencies/societies could play a major role.
 
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[ non-English text deleted ]
The death doesn't silence our voice. A united Spain will never be defeated.
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Daniel Curtmil Atrei ]
[ March 12, 2004: Message edited by: Daniel Curtmil Atrei ]
[ March 13, 2004: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
 
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