Taiwanese Eelection 2004

[Billy Tsai]

Taiwan's future has to be decided by taiwanese.
Chinese communist dictator regime talks peace and disarmament to the world, against the American war in Iraq and Afganhanistan while secretly sponsors terrorist states and regimes by selling and exporting weapons of mass destruction to them such as Iraq, the Taliban regime, Iran, Pakistan and North Korea. Right now in the DMZ majority of the North korean SCUD missiles and artillaries targeting South Korea are all from China, all the AK47 that the Taliban regime used were all made in China.
China itself has no freedom, democracy and liberty and lies shamelessly to the world about how much they love peace but targeting long range tactical missiles at its neighbouring countries in Asia especially nearly 500 missiles targeted at Taiwan that can be fired on a moment of notice, this threat is much worse the the terrorism threats that were presented at the USA. Taiwan is Taiwan, China is China, these are two seperate nations therefor Taiwanese people must let the world know that they dont want Chinese threats from the referendum.
In USA, New Zealand, Australia they all speak the English language and their ancestor all from
Britian, but in America they call themselves Americans, they dont speak American they speak English. In Australia they call themselves Australians(aussies), and in New Zealand they call themselves New Zealanders(kiwi).
There is no Americans running for or allowed to run for the prime minister of Austrlia and NZ!
New Zealanders can't run for the prime minister of Australia!
Austrlian can not run for the prime minister of New Zealand!
and only Americans can run for the president of United States of America.
In Taiwan should only have Taiwanese that can run for presidents of taiwan , taiwan's
future is decided by taiwanese not by Chinese .

[fred snow]

maybe you are right, but i heard "might makes right"...

[fred snow]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
Right now in the DMZ majority of the North korean SCUD missiles and artillaries targeting South Korea are all from China, all the AK47 that the Taliban regime used were all made in China.

weapon is part of international trade. i do not see anything wrong with chinese made ak47 in the hands of taliban. someone kill other people, are you going to blame the gun manufacturer? in your logic, the designer of ak47 is also guilty. former soviet union design it, should soviet still be blamed?

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
lies shamelessly to the world about how much they love peace but targeting long range tactical missiles at its neighbouring countries in Asia

do you know how many missiles were aimed at china? how many missiles US and russia have? where do they aim those missiles?

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:

In USA, New Zealand, Australia they all speak the English language and their ancestor all from
Britian, but in America they call themselves Americans, they dont speak American they speak English. In Australia they call themselves Australians(aussies), and in New Zealand they call themselves New Zealanders(kiwi).
There is no Americans running for or allowed to run for the prime minister of Austrlia and NZ!
New Zealanders can't run for the prime minister of Australia!
Austrlian can not run for the prime minister of New Zealand!
and only Americans can run for the president of United States of America.
In Taiwan should only have Taiwanese that can run for presidents of taiwan , taiwan's
future is decided by taiwanese not by Chinese .

have you heard of independence war? did UK let american go independent with smile on face? have you heard of te war between UK and argentina at folkner islands?
[ March 18, 2004: Message edited by: fred snow ]

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
Taiwan's future has to be decided by taiwanese.

Billy I agree with you 100% and it is a disgrace to the world and to the US, that all are such cowards in regards to Coummunist China. Although the US orignally supported Taiwan's recognition as a separate country, a coalition of anti-American interests in the UN opposed it on the initial vote and it has never had much of a chance since then.
Of course our media, our rock stars, and our movie stars will never flock to your country as it is threatened (numerous times) or if it is attacked. Unlike Sadaam's country, your country is democratic, peaceful, successful, and very productive. If you had a muderous dictator, perhaps everyone would support your country more. It is sick I know, but this is the world we live in it seems.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9912

[Billy Tsai]

Taiwan is no threat to china at all not to mention the economic prosperity in china is also helped by massive taiwanese investments, its like not taiwan has massive military threats to china and has missiles targeting China, then why the bloody hell is china threatening taiwan with missiles and conducting massive military exercises and missile drills to threaten Taiwan

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
Taiwan is no threat to china at all not to mention the economic prosperity in china is also helped by massive taiwanese investments, its like not taiwan has massive military threats to china and has missiles targeting China, then why the bloody hell is china threatening taiwan with missiles and conducting massive military exercises and missile drills to threaten Taiwan

Because like all communists they are murderous thugs who want to steal the productive success of your country. They wish to destroy your country and obliterate whatever distinctive customs and traditions you have. Look how they invaded Tibet and committed genocide. Nobody said nothing. Nobody did nothing. The entire world - All hypocrites and cowards. And the US press and media with a liberal bias and sympathy to communism said nothing while atrocities occurred and even now says very limited amount.
My sympathies are with you Billy, and with all honest, hardworking, freedom loving people around the world who are resisting tyranny. But as you can easily see on this forum, many evil people here see nothing wrong with communists, terrorists, or mass murderers.

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:
Of course our media, our rock stars, and our movie stars will never flock to your country as it is threatened (numerous times) or if it is attacked. Unlike Sadaam's country, your country is democratic, peaceful, successful, and very productive. If you had a muderous dictator, perhaps everyone would support your country more. It is sick I know, but this is the world we live in it seems.

Ditto to that Herb..

[fred snow]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

and with all honest, hardworking, freedom loving people around the world who are resisting tyranny.

i can tell you chinese is one of most hardworking people in the world. look at the achievement they have got over last 20 years, can you image where they are at 20 years from now? look at agentina, russia, africa, or other country, can you say chinese is not hard working?

[fred snow]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:
Look how they invaded Tibet and committed genocide. Nobody said nothing. Nobody did nothing. The entire world - All hypocrites and cowards. And the US press and media with a liberal bias and sympathy to communism said nothing while atrocities occurred and even now says very limited amount.

this is one of the funnest comment i ever heard. what is your information source? Brad Pitt and "Seven Years In Tibet"?

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by fred snow:


this is one of the funnest comment i ever heard. what is your information source? Brad Pitt and "Seven Years In Tibet"?

Can you then explain why the Dalai Lama has to seek refuge in India? Why he cannot even today return to his home?

[Arjun Shastry]

Yes,Dalai Lama was given protection by India years back when Chinese premiers were on his hunt.Communists in China have massacred many Tibeteans in the past but bcos of their secrative style of working nobody outside China knows whats going on there.

[JiaPei Jen]

Dalai Lama is going to Beijing to meet with Hu Jin-Tao soon. It was in the news a few days ago.

[Billy Tsai]

there is no war in Austrlia or New Zealand and they are seperate indenpendent countries.
i admit there is great achievement from the Chinese people which can be shown from their growing economy, and everyone want to earn money from their economy, but they shouldn't still be so undemocratic and using whatever means necessary try to affect other countries. Sooner or later their economy will be like japan

[Billy Tsai]

Damn it the president got shot!
CNN

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

Because like all communists they are murderous thugs who want to steal the productive success of your country. They wish to destroy your country and obliterate whatever distinctive customs and traditions you have. Look how they invaded Tibet and committed genocide. Nobody said nothing. Nobody did nothing. The entire world - All hypocrites and cowards. And the US press and media with a liberal bias and sympathy to communism said nothing while atrocities occurred and even now says very limited amount.

I totally agree that Taiwan should be a seperate country, and should be able to have fair elections to choose their government..... but your statement "like all communists they are murderous thugs" is totally out of line. *Some* communists were, but to say all (and there were and still are millions) are is a bit off target.

But as you can easily see on this forum, many evil people here see nothing wrong with communists, terrorists, or mass murderers.

Can you list the "evil" people on this forum please.

[frank davis]

Originally posted by fred snow:

i can tell you chinese is one of most hardworking people in the world. look at the achievement they have got over last 20 years, can you image where they are at 20 years from now? look at agentina, russia, africa, or other country, can you say chinese is not hard working?

There is nothing in my statements to support your wildly irrational conclusions...

[fred snow]

Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

Can you then explain why the Dalai Lama has to seek refuge in India? Why he cannot even today return to his home?

can you explian why pakistan is an ally of china?

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:

Can you list the "evil" people on this forum please.

I would never stoop to calling a person evil Joe King, but for those really interested, a search through any thread remotely related to terrorism will allow you to discover those whose sympathies lie more with little school girl killers than with little school girls. I believe Joe King's name appears in recent thread....

[fred snow]

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
Yes,Dalai Lama was given protection by India years back when Chinese premiers were on his hunt.Communists in China have massacred many Tibeteans in the past but bcos of their secrative style of working nobody outside China knows whats going on there.

information source? don't tell me it is indiana jones and lost temple

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

Ditto to that Herb..

http://www.australian-news.com.au/China2.htm

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by fred snow:

can you explian why pakistan is an ally of china?

Because they like Oolong tea, may be?
Fred, its common knowledge that a question doesn't answer another question!
Its common knowledge that Pakistan is a closer ally of China because of their common interest in the Kashmir region and their fear of the success of Indian democracy, which neither military run Pakistan or Communist China considers good for them.
Between, there is an appalling history of human rights violation in China, especially against religious freedom, under the corrupt/idealist Communist leaders. That�s precisely why Dalai Lama had to take refuge in India, which is a secular state, which wouldn�t deny basic human rights to its people. This further made India an eyesore to China, and hence their closer ties to Pakistan.
Hope this answers your question. However, from what I hear in the media, China is working hard towards being a more �democratic, capitalist� form of communism, which is good � Yet, issues like Taiwan, Burma etc needs attention from the international community � I mean proper international community, not some muzzle-flexors or �just someone because they can�.

[frank davis]

These questions are for Map, who was recently intrigued by the idea of non-violence and who does not seem repulsed by communism in general, "Why isn't the Dalai Lama's tactics of non-violence working against the Chinese communists"? "Why hasn't the non-violence prevented the death of over 17% of Tibetan population and its cultural genocide"?
http://www.iflry.org/libel/libel_934f.html
[ March 19, 2004: Message edited by: herb slocomb ]

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:
[QB]
...but your statement "like all communists they are murderous thugs" is totally out of line. *Some* communists were, but to say all (and there were and still are millions) are is a bit off target.
[QB]

Keep in perspective that the context of this discussion was at the national/international level. With that in mind, you say my comments are out of line, but please list all communist nations who have not executed political opposition, then let us compare that to communist nations who do execute political prisoners.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

I would never stoop to calling a person evil Joe King

It appears that you did when you said

But as you can easily see on this forum, many evil people here see nothing wrong with communists, terrorists, or mass murderers.

This seems to say that you think some people on the forum are evil, and if you are going to make such a serious accusation, at least back it up. I personally can't think of a single person on this forum who supports terrorism or who I could call "evil".

, but for those really interested, a search through any thread remotely related to terrorism will allow you to discover those whose sympathies lie more with little school girl killers than with little school girls. I believe Joe King's name appears in recent thread....

Sorry, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by saying that my name appears in the recent thread - are you implying that I support terrorism? If so, then this is mistaken - I do not, never have and never will support terrorism. If so, then I strongly resent this accusation. Let's clear this thing up - do you think that I am evil?
Again, I don't recall seeing anyone actually defending terrorism. Can you please post some links if so, because I seem to be missing them.

[Paul McKenna]

Breaking - Taiwan President Shot!!!

[fred snow]

Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

Fred, its common knowledge that a question doesn't answer another question!

ashok, i will get back to you later. one thing i want to point is:
if pakistan is not an ally of china, then pakistan president may become dalai the second, do you agree?

[frank davis]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

Another example of hypocrisy of Left and its blind eye to mudering communist thugs :
http://www.australian-news.com.au/China2.htm

Maybe Joe King will lead us all now in the song "Socialism is Good" ...

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

Keep in perspective that the context of this discussion was at the national/international level. With that in mind, you say my comments are out of line, but please list all communist nations who have not executed political opposition, then let us compare that to communist nations who do execute political prisoners.

OK, had you said "all communist governments were murderous" then I would have to agree that every government that I know of that has called themselves "communist" have killed a lot. (Althoug I think that this is more to do with them being dictators than communists) It just appeared from your comment that you were referring to all the people who support communism.......

[frank davis]

Originally posted by JiaPei Jen:
Dalai Lama is going to Beijing to meet with Hu Jin-Tao soon. It was in the news a few days ago.

Jesus, Dalai Lama has always been trying to meet and negotiate with Chinese communists for past 50 years. This has done nothing to stop the mass murder and rape and cultural genocide.
http://www.fatherryan.org/holocaust/Tibet/history.htm

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:

OK, had you said "all communist governments were murderous" then I would have to agree that every government that I know of that has called themselves "communist" have killed a lot. (Althoug I think that this is more to do with them being dictators than communists) It just appeared from your comment that you were referring to all the people who support communism.......

Well, I get carried away on this topic as you know. For some reason I find it harder than most to remain cool and detached when contemplating mass murder.

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

Maybe Joe King will lead us all now in the song "Socialism is Good" ...

You seem to be making a habit of making veiled insults - at least clarify them a bit! Are you saying that I support the Chinese government? That I would beat someone for not singing a song about socialism? In the context of the link, your comment to me seems to say so. Personally I don't know the song, so I couldn't really lead anyone in it, and besides, if you'd ever heard me sing, you'd probably prefer it if I didn't

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

Well, I get carried away on this topic as you know. For some reason I find it harder than most to remain cool and detached when contemplating mass murder.

Well this is something we totally agree with - that the mass murder is about as bad as it can get. Stalin was at least as bad as Hitler in my opinion.

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:

You seem to be making a habit of making veiled insults - at least clarify them a bit! Are you saying that I support the Chinese government? That I would beat someone for not singing a song about socialism? In the context of the link, your comment to me seems to say so. Personally I don't know the song, so I couldn't really lead anyone in it, and besides, if you'd ever heard me sing, you'd probably prefer it if I didn't

Nah, not really personal, just you were the first target to cross my mind. So to set the record straight, I think there's a chance you could possibly be quite a reasonably decent person.

For a socialist.

[frank davis]

Originally posted by fred snow:


this is one of the funnest comment i ever heard.

The genocide of Tibet is funny?
As I suspected, Fred Snow is an agent of Chinese govt.
As we know, the Chinese govt has employees post not only in forums such as this but also in AOL forums and chat rooms. I also encountered such people during the time when the Communists shot down the US surveillance plane in international waters.

[Ashok Mash]

Originally posted by fred snow:

ashok, i will get back to you later. one thing i want to point is:
if pakistan is not an ally of china, then pakistan president may become dalai the second, do you agree?

I can only agree to disagree with that, Fred!
India is not a war-hungry nation as Chinese and Pakistani admin might want its citizens or rest of the world to believe. India will not attack Pakistan because they are week, but because they are strong enough to cause trouble (infiltration/aiding militants/hosting international terrorists etc). All India-Pakistan wars so far happened because Pakistan started it, or pushed India into it � doesn�t that explain why no one will Pakistan will ever have to run away because they don�t have Chinese aid?

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:

Sorry, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by saying that my name appears in the recent thread - are you implying that I support terrorism? If so, then this is mistaken - I do not, never have and never will support terrorism. If so, then I strongly resent this accusation. Let's clear this thing up - do you think that I am evil?
Again, I don't recall seeing anyone actually defending terrorism. Can you please post some links if so, because I seem to be missing them.

I have not, and will not, single out any person as being "evil". For the record I do not consider you evil (bear this in mind as you become a convenient target in the future ).
As far as you and the issue of terrorism, I believe you are confused as to what exactly terrorism is and I responded to your post in the thread below where terrorism has been discussed by yourself, myself, others and also terrorist apologists. This is not directed at you joe, but justifying killing little school girls by calling them freedom fighters or some other such non-sense is evil :
https://coderanch.com/t/39972/md/Hindus-involved-Spain-terrorism

[Joe King]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

I have not, and will not, single out any person as being "evil". For the record I do not consider you evil (bear this in mind as you become a convenient target in the future ).

As far as you and the issue of terrorism, I believe you are confused as to what exactly terrorism is and I responded to your post in the thread below where terrorism has been discussed by yourself, myself, others and also terrorist apologists. This is not directed at you joe, but justifying killing little school girls by calling them freedom fighters or some other such non-sense is evil :
https://coderanch.com/t/39972/md/Hindus-involved-Spain-terrorism

Right-o. I'll reply to it there - not much point in cross posting and all that.

For a socialist.

Shocking as it may sound, I don't think that we are that far part politically. I wonder if many disagreements on this forum are because Europeans and Americans have slightly different definitions of what "socialism" is. Anyway, I'll take your comment as a compliment
[ March 19, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]

[frank davis]

Originally posted by Joe King:

Shocking as it may sound, I don't think that we are that far part politically.
[ March 19, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]

Well, on the whole, politically, America is to the right of Britain and Europe. And on the whole, I am to the right of America (actualy libertarian on social issues)...

[fred snow]

Originally posted by herb slocomb:

The genocide of Tibet is funny?
As I suspected, Fred Snow is an agent of Chinese govt.
As we know, the Chinese govt has employees post not only in forums such as this but also in AOL forums and chat rooms. I also encountered such people during the time when the Communists shot down the US surveillance plane in international waters.

i think you are OBL himself!

[Mapraputa Is]

Herb: These questions are for Map, who was recently intrigued by the idea of non-violence and who does not seem repulsed by communism in general, "Why isn't the Dalai Lama's tactics of non-violence working against the Chinese communists"? "Why hasn't the non-violence prevented the death of over 17% of Tibetan population and its cultural genocide"?
Non-violence isn't a universal solution and I never said it's the only way to act. As for non-violence that doesn't work against the Chinese communists, what exactly do you mean by "work"? That the communists don't become capitalists overnight? Didn't you notice that China isn't the same as 30 years ago?
But what is *your* idea about "solving" "Chinese communism" problem? To invade them and kill every communist?