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Spanish Inquisition - part2

 
slicker
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How long now till the Spanish get back to their Islamic roots?
 
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Islamic roots???
The Spanish Inquisition was a religious fundamentalist CATHOLIC government's means of terminating with extreme prejudice all who dared even think that another faith might work as well.
It was mainly aimed at other Christian groups...
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Our main weapon is fear and surprise".
 
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

 
Jeroen Wenting
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thanks, didn't have the full text stored in my internal memorybanks
 
John Dunn
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Islamic roots???
Are you denying that Spain was once ruled by Muslims?
I was referring to this period...

previously quoted by Jeroen Wenting:
The Spanish Inquisition was a religious fundamentalist CATHOLIC government's means of terminating with extreme prejudice all who dared even think that another faith might work as well.
It was mainly aimed at other Christian groups...


With much delight, I'd like to point out that was the Spanish Inquisition Part 1! Now slide those eyeballs of yours up a bit in their sockets and examine the title of this thread. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, now I get it...
Ol' Johnny Dunn, is making his own Inquisition - let's be REALLY sexy with it and call it "Spanish Inquisition - Part 2"
in�qui�si�tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nkw-zshn, ng-)
n.
1. The act of inquiring into a matter; an investigation. See Synonyms at inquiry.
2. Law.
a. An inquest.
b. The verdict of a judicial inquiry.
3.
a. Inquisition A tribunal formerly held in the Roman Catholic Church and directed at the suppression of heresy.
b. An investigation that violates the privacy or rights of individuals.
c. A rigorous, harsh interrogation.

-------------
Hey come to think of it, did you ever wonder how the Spanish will act if al Queda decides that it wants those folks to stop being infidels and behaving?
What will the Spanish do now if their threatened with bigger and better bombs?
All satire aside, I think the current Spanish government is misleading the hurting the Spanish people. Governments need to stand up and look over the horizen.
My very sad and reluctant prediction is that Europe will get hit much harder then they just did in Spain and then they will all get up together as one to fight back. The anti-U.S. folks will blame the U.S. but after working with us to defeat the terrorists we will again be friends, albeit with a much more powerful EU.
Stay awake, we're watching important history unfold before our very eyes!!
Yippee!!
[ March 22, 2004: Message edited by: John Dunn ]
 
Jeroen Wenting
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My very sad and reluctant prediction is that Europe will get hit much harder then they just did in Spain and then they will all get up together as one to fight back. The anti-U.S. folks will blame the U.S. but after working with us to defeat the terrorists we will again be friends, albeit with a much more powerful EU.


On the first prediction I sadly have to agree, Europe will be hit and hit hard.
On the second, I severely doubt it. I expect many of the soft leftwing Euro politicians to seek settlements with the terrorists in similar fashion to what the Spanish socialists are doing, giving in to demands and effectively handing over the key to the city.
Anti-US sentiment will be fed to increase ever more (this has been happening for at least a decade in the EU after all), and the slumbering tradewars will start in earnest as the EU seeks to apeace the terrorists by actively opposing the Great Satan.
 
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Don't overly criticise the EU. (Just yet)
"A pan-African Parliament was launched this week by the Organization of African Unity, modelled on the European Parliament. There are aspirations that it will play a role in continental integration and in the harmonisation of laws of member states. The principal problem at the moment is funding; member states, most of which are strapped for cash, are being assessed to pay for the costs of maintaining the assembly."
Parliament
Pan African Parliament aspirations
 
Jeroen Wenting
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I live in the EU, I got to live with the incredible waste and inefficiency all the time (not to mention the subjugation of the entire union to Franco-German interests).
 
HS Thomas
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From May 1st I will most definitely be aware that I, too, live in the EU.
I find it interesting that the computer shop where I get the best service (to date ) has an Italian manager and is staffed by English,West Indians, Spanish.
Of my two favourite restaurants (when I can afford it) one has a French ambiance and the best Ceaser salad in the world and there used to be a Spanish tapas bar (seems to have disappeared).
[ March 23, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
I live in the EU, I got to live with the incredible waste and inefficiency all the time (not to mention the subjugation of the entire union to Franco-German interests).


I'm also a bit concerned about the Franco-German influence on the direction of the EU (I think France wants a super state to compete with the US), but on the whole its a good thing. Looking at the history of Europe, there has never been a time when peace has been so secure. For most of our history the various European countries have been engaging in mini "cold wars" at best, and full on annihilation at worst. We are going through an extremely rare thing in history - a Europe in which no European country is at war with another European country. The fact that the UK, France and Germany are all allies is an incredible achievement. Given our bloody history, I'd happily have the inefficient bureaucratic EU of today over the shifting warring alliances of the previous millennium. Just seventy years ago a peaceful Europe would have been unthinkable, but now its a realistic target that we are well on the way to achieving. The big question is - can we take Europe forwards past the mountains of paper work and silly legal cases, and become a unique structure of independent states helping each other improve and grow? The current discussions over the structure of the EU are probably the one of the most important events of post-war European history.
[ March 23, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]
 
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
not to mention the subjugation of the entire union to Franco-German interests.


There must be a virus in Northern Atlantic which make people think that Republican-US is always great and "Demonrats"-Europe always is weak and stupid. Lets call it Menard-B. It obviously has reached dutch shore.
Sorry for the subjugation, but you have to understand: Its just so comfortable having all those people from smaller eu members to work for our interests.
What interests?
Compare flows of payments to EU and benefits from EU. Do you think Germany is really so well off?
The countries who really benefited from EU in last 10 years were
1. Ireland
2. Spain
3. Portugal
4. Greece
So it can't be economic goals. And those are the most important.
Foreign Policy? Security?
I heavily doubt that France or Germany did followed a clear patterns in those areas in the last 10 years. It evolved a lot. We do spend much less money on defense than US, but for our army its quite normal to being send to region in crisis. I have army departments as customers. Their job has changed dramatically in last 10 years. Nowadays they talk a lot about the strangest regions of the world, where they have been sent. Its not as dangerous as being in US army, but the gap might be narrower than some might think.
regards Axel
 
Jeroen Wenting
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France receives the largest payouts of EU funding every year yet pays the least.
The Netherlands have consistently been in the top-3 of countries paying the most (both in real terms and especially per capita) yet are in the bottom 5 of receiving nations (both in real terms and per capita).
Portugal, Greece and Ireland indeed get quite a bit out of the EU development funds, but in real terms it's peanuts (counted per capita it's good money though).
We send out troops out indeed. And we get Srebrenica in return. A French general deliberately prevents airsupport for the ground forces who were sent in with weapons that were known in advance to be more dangerous to our own troops than to the Serbs (in case you forgot, the anti-tank weapons were so old the propellants would have almost certainly exploded in the launchers on attempting to launch them) and with strict orders to not engage the enemy...
Then the ground unit commander is villified to cover the betrayal of the French masters as he is forced to surrender his command when engaged by superior firepower.
 
John Dunn
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Wow. It is VERY interesting to read all the Europeans' remarks about the EU.
I personally like the idea of the EU being stronger, even though it will mean a diminished role for the US, because I believe it will lead to healthy competition and keep us on our toes. (IMHO, The US does well when it is presented with a real challenge.) I also look forward to not having to be involved in any stupid conflicts, like Bosnia/Serbia.
It seems like everyone knows and understands the current acrimony and mini-bickerings. Remember this, after WWI and really after WWII, the freedom granted to African Americans overseas started a chain reaction that led to the civil rights movement, which in turn led to many human rights movements here and then abroad. I sorta feel, or probably should say 'wonder' (since I'm no fortuneteller), that there will be an external event that binds the EU together in a new direction. It may not even be on EU soil. Suppose NYC - God Forbid! - gets hit with a dirty bomb and we can't live here for another 200 years... will folks in the EU, drop their petty quarrelling and get smart?
No one really knows...
 
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

There must be a virus in Northern Atlantic which make people think that Republican-US is always great and "Demonrats"-Europe always is weak and stupid. Lets call it Menard-B. It obviously has reached dutch shore.
Sorry for the subjugation, but you have to understand: Its just so comfortable having all those people from smaller eu members to work for our interests.
What interests?
Compare flows of payments to EU and benefits from EU. Do you think Germany is really so well off?
The countries who really benefited from EU in last 10 years were
1. Ireland
2. Spain
3. Portugal
4. Greece
So it can't be economic goals. And those are the most important.
Foreign Policy? Security?
I heavily doubt that France or Germany did followed a clear patterns in those areas in the last 10 years. It evolved a lot. We do spend much less money on defense than US, but for our army its quite normal to being send to region in crisis. I have army departments as customers. Their job has changed dramatically in last 10 years. Nowadays they talk a lot about the strangest regions of the world, where they have been sent. Its not as dangerous as being in US army, but the gap might be narrower than some might think.
regards Axel


Economic policy, like masterminding the euro, with all its rules, and then ignoring the rules when it suits them. Or illegal subsidies to state airlines ( e.g. Air France. ) Or the common agricultural policy...
 
Axel Janssen
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
France receives the largest payouts of EU funding every year yet pays the least


... which doesn't help the french, because most of the money goes to their highly ineficient farming sector where only 2% of their population find their income...
 
Axel Janssen
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Originally posted by Steve Wink:

Economic policy, like masterminding the euro, with all its rules, and then ignoring the rules when it suits them. Or illegal subsidies to state airlines ( e.g. Air France. ) Or the common agricultural policy...


I see the competition ruling (anti-subvention, anti-trust, etc, don't know proper english name) of the EU as not that bad. There were quite a few decisions directed against german subventions.
Common agricultural policy is a bad joke. The austrian comissioner Fischler were'nt that bad. USA, too, do have lots of protections and subventions for their farmers. Only
I agree 110% with you regarding the Euro. The +10% is because I've heard all that arrogant talk going round here if italians or spanish do have the mental stability to keep their budget in check.
[ March 23, 2004: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]
 
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:
There must be a virus in Northern Atlantic which make people think that Republican-US is always great and "Demonrats"-Europe always is weak and stupid. Lets call it Menard-B.


Why are you bringing me into your little EU spat? But since you did... Let me just respond to your statement by saying that I don't think that the Democrats are always weak and stupid, and I don't think that Europe is generally any more "stupid" than anyone else.
[ March 24, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
 
Axel Janssen
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... as we use to say in marketing: bad rumors are better than no rumors.
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

... which doesn't help the french, because most of the money goes to their highly ineficient farming sector where only 2% of their population find their income...


Well, if you consider that if they hadn't gotten it from the taxmoney which comes out of other EU citizens' pockets it would have had to come out of the pockets of French taxpayers, you'd see that the French in general are better off this way.
 
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