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Alfred Neumann

 
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Alfred has been a careful and thoughtful poster.
But this is Paul's site and if the rules state no obvious assumed famous ( ) names and that should be respected. Alfred has even taken the name Paul suggested - Alfred Neese whose only claim to fame I found was some janitor in Trump Palace who keeps thing ticking along nicely in his rented apartments.
"It is a computerized information system that tracks more than 200 building activities and procedures. They include tenants' repair requests and data on shipping and receiving of packages and building supplies. The system also enables managers to maintain lists of current and former tenants and of who is permitted to enter the building.. The superintendent who developed the concept behind the system was Alfred Neese, of Trump Place. The idea, he said, was "to streamline paperwork, increase productivity, keep everyone on the same page and respond more quickly to residents' needs." The system, he said, is simple, quick and, unlike some others, "focused just on taking care of the business of managing buildings."" Hmmm. Sounds like bartending.
My curiosity about the name "Alfred Neumann" has been triggered though.
[ December 30, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
My curiosity about the name "Alfred Neumann" has been triggered though.


Alfred E. Neumann is the fictional kid in Mad magazine who always says, "What, me worry?"
As to the other question, yes, an account can be reopened. If AN promises to play nice and follow the rules we can reopen his account and let him change his display name.
Finally, this is not an example of "group think". Whether we agree or disagree with Paul is irrelevant. This is his site and he gets to make the rules.
 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Alfred E. Neumann is the fictional kid in Mad magazine who always says, "What, me worry?"


And who is Alfred Neumann?

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

As to the other question, yes, an account can be reopened. If AN promises to play nice and follow the rules we can reopen his account and let him change his display name.


When have I not 'played nice'? I suppose I could think of a few slips here and there. I suspet you mean cheerful and willing obediance. Which I will not do. My adoption of Paul's suggestion for name was made in a spirit of deepest irony. After three other names were terminated in the space of 3 hours. If I am irritating enough this one may go as well.....
I am trying to puncture what I regard as 'a foolish consistency' before it goes further. Because I value this forum and wish to remain a part of it.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Finally, this is not an example of "group think".


Matter of opinion. I've never observed a group which agreed that the label fits them. With the possible exception of outfits like the Flat Earth Society which were established with a comic purpose. Even so it's generally agreed that groupthink happens. I see it regularly at work and in most parts of life.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Whether we agree or disagree with Paul is irrelevant. This is his site and he gets to make the rules.


I dissent. As a practical matter Paul can act as he pleases, that much is true. So can everyone else. Unfortunately that kind of thinking often leads to tit for tat.
 
HS Thomas
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<?
// if name is wrong
if ($name != "neo")
{
?>
<font face="Arial" size="-1">
I wonder if you've heard of Shakespeare, <? echo $name; ?>.
<p>
He postulated that a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.
<p>>
Unfortunately for you, I disagree. Access denied.
</font>
<?
Tut. Computers for you.I think Shakespeare might be denied access. I must get hold of Mad magazine.
[ December 30, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Alfred Neese:
I am trying to puncture what I regard as 'a foolish consistency' before it goes further. Because I value this forum and wish to remain a part of it.


'a foolish consistency' ?
before it goes further?
The fact that JavaRanch is doing so well and has been so succesful shows that your concerns are misplaced. We have had the naming standard since I first visited these forums almost three years ago.
I am now fairly sure that JavaRanch is not the place for you. Sun has Java forums that you can use and call yourself anything you like. If you really value this forum you will play by the rules. The main rule is "be nice". The second rule is that you must follow the naming standard. I think this has really gone far enough. We are wasting our time with this, time that could be spent answering Java questions. Either you will follow the rules or you won't. If you won't then goodbye.
 
Alfred Neese
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

I am now fairly sure that JavaRanch is not the place for you. Sun has Java forums that you can use and call yourself anything you like. If you really value this forum you will play by the rules. The main rule is "be nice". The second rule is that you must follow the naming standard. I think this has really gone far enough. We are wasting our time with this, time that could be spent answering Java questions. Either you will follow the rules or you won't. If you won't then goodbye.


LOL! Care to point out in what respects I am currently in violation of the rules, Thom? Offending one or more moderators about their actions and opinions wasn't against the rules when I read them.
Perhaps I have missed something?
 
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Originally posted by Alfred Neese:

LOL! Care to point out in what respects I am currently in violation of the rules, Thom? Offending one or more moderators about their actions and opinions wasn't against the rules when I read them.
Perhaps I have missed something?


I believe what Tom means is that your name is still in violation of the Naming Policy. Obvious Ficticious names works 2 ways.
1. Using a knows name i.e. Clark Kent
2. Using a name you have stated is not your real name.
You have stated that Alfred Neese is not your real name. So you are "obviously" using a fake name. I believe that is the problem.
As far as the "Be Nice" rule, I have found your posts to be quite tactful and pleasent considering the onslaught. Which is rather admirable. It's a shame that it's come to all of this.
But as has been said over and over, it's Paul's site. He made the rules. You have been asked to follow them, and you have disregarded them. We have 50,000+ members that somehow find a way to concede to the Naming Policy. If you truly want to be part of this community, I am just not understanding why you can't abide by our rules.
 
Alfred Neese
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Could be, Greg. On the other hand I did it on the direct suggestion of this chap.
Perhaps I was misled and should avoid complying with suggestions from this source in future?
BTW, thanks and congratulations to whomever reopened this thread. For a moment there I thought I'd been terminated again when I couldn't post earlier.
[ December 30, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
 
HS Thomas
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Th 'BE nice' rule is a simple rule but that's why JR works so well and nobody IMHO are nicer than sheriffs and bartenders and trailboss. Their 'niceness' is often catching. And we try to be as nice though we must try their patience many times.
 
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Hi Thomas and Alfred,
On this second page, I read at least two positive things (not so bad BTW ) :

Thomas Paul:
As to the other question, yes, an account can be reopened. If AN promises to (...) follow the rules we can reopen his account and let him change his display name.


Alfred Neese:
I value this forum and wish to remain a part of it.


Alfred, I really wonder now *where* is your problem :
  • You didn't follow JR's Naming Policy. First mistake of you, but not a big deal.
  • A few moderators have asked you to change it and you didn't. Second mistake of you, and a bigger one.
  • Paul sent you a few PMs asking you to change your name. You didn't *and* kept silent (which is worse). Third mistake of you, even bigger than the second one.
  • Your account has been closed, but *what* could they do instead ?
  • You have now a sheriff kind enough (Thomas Paul), willing to reopen your account at the only (little) condition that you follow the JR rules that *all* JR members accept to follow.
  • As you "value this forum and wish to remain a part of it", I don't think it should be a big issue to accept the condition above : it's quite obvious to accept the rules of any community of which you want to remain part, right ?
  • The Naming Policy is very flexible by itself : "It is possible that you are uncomfortable about using your real name on the web. This happens. In that case, feel free to display a fictitious name. Just make it look like it could be real - like "Al Swensen", "Roberta Cheeny", "Anand Singh" or "Xiao Wu".". It means that any name randomly picked up from a phone book can do the job.


  • I'd like to add this :
    We all make a few mistakes per day, every day, and in multiple areas. We are not perfect and that's a luck that we aren't BTW . There is a french idiom that I cannot translate in english (but I'll try anyway ) : it could give something like "mistake admitted is half forgiven".
    Now each time I feel upset, I notice that sleeping one night helps a lot to feel better.
    I guess that Thomas's proposal will still be valid tomorrow. So I sincerely hope you'll accept it.
    Best regards,
    Phil.
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Originally posted by Philippe Maquet:
    Hi Thomas and Alfred,
    On this second page, I read at least two positive things (not so bad BTW ) :

    I'd like to add this :
    Now each time I feel upset, I notice that sleeping one night helps a lot to feel better.
    I guess that Thomas's proposal will still be valid tomorrow. So I sincerely hope you'll accept it.
    Best regards,


    Thank you for the kind words, Phillippe. They are appreciated. I have indeed slept a night on my anger (such as it was). The question I'm working in is whether continuing is worth the aggro. I'm a bit of a Don Quioxte and the prospect of having to tell my tale of woe everytime a moderator get's his back up is something I'm too stinkin' proud to do. See Paul's names thread, second post for fuller details.
    I've now told the tale twice and that is probably once too often. The world is not a jungle but certain corners of it are a howling jungle, and a prudent man doesn't leave his house key under the welcome mat. Which is what posting your name and/or government ID number online amounts to in my experience.
     
    Trailboss
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    So now we have had a lovely chat.
    I think everybody understands each other. I know that I have learned a great deal and I feel better equiped to make the decisions I need to make.
    The problem I am trying to solve is that more people are selecting names that are obviously made up. I am grateful for every minute that the volunteers donate to javaranch and I feel bad when they spend too much time on the whole name police thing.
    Cracking down on names that are obviously fictitious is the first step.
    While everybody reading this thread knows that "Alfred Neese" is not a real name, my concern is not so much with our group now, but with folks that come by in the future.
    Here is my plan: I will leave the "Alfred Neese" account alone. Sometime tomorrow I will delete these two threads that make it clear that "Alfred Neese" is obviously a fictitious name. As long as nobody brings it up again, people of the future will think that "Alfred Neese" is a real name.
    I'm happy. "Alfred" is happy. Everybody is happy.
    If any of you think that this is a boneheaded idea, this is your chance to persuade me to use a better idea.
     
    Leverager of our synergies
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    I was only going to say something about "groupthink". I can see how this impression can be made, but this isn't 100% correct. We have "Moderators Only" forum to discuss things, and you can trust me on this, anything can be found there but "groupthink". Before Paul makes a decision, he always posts his ideas and everybody can voice their protest. (And they do!) However, after all opinions were considered and the final decision made, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go to the public forums and voice our dissent once again. So the result can look like "groupthink", unfortunately.
    [ December 30, 2003: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
     
    Ugly Redneck
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    This whole thread has given me the idea of creating an online identification service. There may be services just like this forum that may require a user to use valid and real information. Therefore while the user does not feel comfortable trusting such information to the vendor they may trust a third party for identity management services. ummmm.....
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Hi Paul,

    I'm happy. "Alfred" is happy. Everybody is happy.


    And I share your happiness !

    Here is my plan: I will leave the "Alfred Neese" account alone. (...) this is your chance to persuade me to use a better idea.


    If I didn't miss something, I think that Thomas Paul's suggestion (reopening the AN's old account and let him change his displayed name) would even be better because Alfred would keep his posts counter. I guess that with your >7000 posts you don't evaluate the difference between 15 and 700 posts as Alfred probably does.
    Anyway, thank you to have concluded this thread as you did, and Happy New Year !
    Best,
    Phil.
    [ December 30, 2003: Message edited by: Philippe Maquet ]
     
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    I think Paul's plan is a good one. Neese has a nice ring to it
    But I must say that I'm going to miss Alfred Neumann. Having grown up with Mad magazine, I couldn't look at any of his posts without getting a smile on my face
    And here's a little off-topic Alfred E Neuman story... so Steven Spielberg's a wealthy enough guy to have virtually anything he wants to grace his offices and conference rooms, right? Well, I don't know what is inside Dreamworks today, but in its infancy, the business was operated out of his Amblin' Entertainment offices (on the grounds of Universal Studios). It was a lovely adobe building that they affectionately called "the house that ET built".
    Inside was the main conference room-- a great southwestern style room with gorgeous wood beams, etc. and a cool high-tech (but wooden) table that did things. So guess what was on the walls of Spielberg's conference room? Alfred! Nothing but Alfred! That's right... the walls were covered with huge framed prints of all of the Mad magazine covers in which one of Spielberg's movies was spoofed. You know, "There's Alfred as ET; there's Alfred as..." that kind of thing.
    OK, that's my Alfred story. So I enjoyed Alfred Neumann and I would miss Alfred Neese if he weren't here either. And I also think Paul has once again demonstrated why he IS the Trail Boss and why javaranch works in spite of hiccups along the way.
    The Be Nice rule is what makes this place so much more personally *helpful* than any place that *I* can think of. The all-volunteer staff, the incredibly helpful members (example: I go on vacation, come back, and find out that while I'm gone I was barely missed because Philippe was in there answering the SCBCD questions!), and the naming policy seems a small price to pay if it has proven to be helpful, and it HAS.
    But of course this does not mean that you must use your REAL name, just one that is *plausibly* real. This is the wild frontier out here, and there IS the potential, as Thomas Paul has pointed out, for it to become a slippery slope where people stop thinking of names at all. It doesn't matter if, say, "FRED", is not technically your real name. But it's still something I can use to THINK about you as a human being. A real person with a name as opposed to an abstract concept of "Hot Java Stud" (which of course, is already taken by Bert, you know... .
    Doesn't really matter if Fred is not a name that people of your gender or ethnicity would likely have, because it doesn't matter whether I know your *real* gender or ethnicity (in fact, it's sometimes more productive if I do NOT).
    On the other hand, there are *some* gains to be made by using your real name, when it is convenient and when other privacy issues aren't a problem. Some of us have become almost like associates or even family to one another, and when we DO know one another's real names, we can meet each other (often unexpectedly) in other domains, both virtual and REAL (like JavaOne in San Francisco), and recognize one another and interact *outside* javaranch.
    But whether to use your *real* name is a very personal choice, with lots of issues to consider. Whether to comply with the *pretty liberal* naming policy is not really a personal choice... it's a choice you make to be part of the friendliest electron-based ranch you'll ever see. (Ok, sure, perhaps this is the ONLY digital ranch, but that's beside the point
    Cheers,
    Kathy
     
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    So how many accounts have we decided to close which we know are with fictious name ??
    Or this policy applies only on "Al Neumann" ?? OR it applies only on Al Neumann because it is a chracter of magazine 'Mad' and says "What, me worry?" ??
    I respect the policies, I know final words are of Paul.
    Or we have different rules for different persons ??
    AW one more, what I call, TP style reply

    I really don't care about your long, deeply felt, and sincere reply.


    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
     
    HS Thomas
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    Rats! Thought that got rid of him!
    Paul did the "Six Thinking Hats" thing rather well.
     
    R K Singh
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    Which Paul and which color you are talking about ??
     
    HS Thomas
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    Paul Wheaton.
    As to which colour of Hat ( I see you spell colour incorrectly )
    I'd guess the red hat was applied suggesting fire and warmth and represents feeling,emotion and intuition. The green hat suggesting greenery concentrates on potential areas of growth and development.
    I'm afraid I've forgotten the other colours but google shall reveal all.
    There is no use pretending emotions do not exist. It's no use trying to suppress the emotion of the moment. It's better to acknowledge that the emotion exists and then guard that it does not distort matter too much.
    Perhaps the other colours are not relevant to the issue.There are very few negotiations where emotions do not dominate the situation . Negotiations then become some sort of battle where one side is required to be defeated.
    When an issue is discussed everyone present applies a particular hat to the issue each representing a different approach and thinks in that one direction only.
    I don't know pehaps this doesn't work for a Java Geek site or a Geek filtration site. I just thought Paul W aske dsome pertinent Hat questions.
    Happy New Year to everyone !
     
    Thomas Paul
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    Originally posted by R K Singh:
    So how many accounts have we decided to close which we know are with fictious name ??

    I would guess that it is less than a dozen accounts that have been closed because the owner refused to abide by the policy. The vast majority of people are reasonable about the naming policy. (Remember, it is not that the account uses a ficticious name but that it uses an obviously ficticious name.)
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Hi Kathy,
    Thank you for the kind words, even if I don't think I deserve them.
    (Though if I take into account the harassing insistance my girl friend uses all the time to make me spend less time on JR, maybe I deserve them a bit after all... How do you guys manage that ?! )
    All best,
    Phil.
     
    R K Singh
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    Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
    Remember, it is not that the account uses a ficticious name but that it uses an obviously ficticious name.


    For me who has only heard about Mad magazine and does not know about its characters, "Alfred Neumann" was very much real name.
    And like someone said, there might be another "Saddam Hussain".
    OK, let me rephrase it:
    Remember, it is not that the account uses a ficticious name but that it uses an obviously ficticious name, as per any one of the moderators
    Am I right ??
     
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    PMcK: This whole thread has given me the idea of creating an online identification service. There may be services just like this forum that may require a user to use valid and real information. Therefore while the user does not feel comfortable trusting such information to the vendor they may trust a third party for identity management services. ummmm.....
    I got a name for your new business: VeriSign. Oh, wait, the domain is already taken by some gaming site.
    I have another idea: we could have casual Fridays here at the ranch, with our professional image defined loosely. On casual Fridays, we could use any unreal names, as long as decency is preserved (by the North American standards).
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Hi, (Hi R ? / Hi R K ? / Hi K ? )

    Remember, it is not that the account uses a ficticious name but that it uses an obviously ficticious name, as per any one of the moderators
    Am I right ??


    You are obviously right. And I must confess that the only "Alfred Neumann" that I knew till this thread was the one who registred on JavaRanch . But the whole problem didn't came from the name by itself but from the fact that Alfred even refused to argue about it. Let's try this metaphor : you are in your car, under the speed limit, you've not drunk, and a policeman ask you to stop. You think "I am OK" and ... you go on. Would you then be surprised to get troubles ?
    Regards,
    Phil.
     
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    Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
    as long as decency is preserved (by the North American standards).


    No need to limit this to the North American crowd, we're going global.
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Paul, I respectfully request and suggest that you leave these threads open for a little longer. The issues are important and (to my mind at least) not as closed a matter as we might prefer to believe.
    For one thing, 'Everyone' is not happy with this resolution. 'Happy' is far too strong a word to describe my feelings about the matter for example.
    I may be content to remain 'Alfred Neese' or perhaps use another name with the Neumann account. I'm still thinking about what I want within to do within the limited possibilities.
    Posting as 'Alfred Neumann' was a daily reminder to hang loose, preserve a sense of humor, and above all not to take myself too seriously. Qualities which I could wish were more widespread (outside of The Cowgirl of course). Not least in myself. I certainly lost the plot when I started the 'PowerDrunk Moderator' account because I was irritated at what I saw as being blindsided.
    'Alfred Neese' has no meaning to me so I probably won't remain under that name. If I do it will be as a very occasional visitor at best.
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Originally posted by Jason Menard:

    No need to limit this to the North American crowd, we're going global.


    Just so long as we don't go postal....
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Originally posted by Philippe Maquet:
    Hi, (Hi R ? / Hi R K ? / Hi K ? )

    You are obviously right. And I must confess that the only "Alfred Neumann" that I knew till this thread was the one who registred on JavaRanch . But the whole problem didn't came from the name by itself but from the fact that Alfred even refused to argue about it. Let's try this metaphor : you are in your car, under the speed limit, you've not drunk, and a policeman ask you to stop. You think "I am OK" and ... you go on. Would you then be surprised to get troubles ?


    Refusing to argue can be a valuable conflict-avoidance strategy. When someone starts behaving erratically I frequently completely ignore the behavior. It takes two to argue.
    Had I known this in 1998 I probably would have avoided having my credit history posted on the internet, for one example....
    That said, conflict avoidance completely backfired this time. So I'm obviously not omnipotent on this subject....
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
     
    Thomas Paul
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    Originally posted by Alfred Neese:
    I certainly lost the plot when I started the 'PowerDrunk Moderator' account because I was irritated at what I saw as being blindsided.

    That is not fair! Paul tried on numerous occasions to contact you and you ignored him. To say you were blindsided is absurd.
     
    Thomas Paul
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    Originally posted by R K Singh:
    OK, let me rephrase it:
    Remember, it is not that the account uses a ficticious name but that it uses an obviously ficticious name, as per any one of the moderators


    This is exactly correct. For example, if someone used a name made up of the Indian phrase "stud programmer" it would not appear ficticious to me but it would to moderators who know that Indian dialect.
    As to their being another "Saddam Hussein" I think we would probably ask him to change his name anyway because of the potential controversy his name might generate. But as for other names that look ficticious we do ask and if the person says that it is their name then we let it go.
     
    Alfred Neese
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    This has gone far enough, Thomas. It's about the 3rd time you have put words into my mouth in the past 3 days.
    Do the words 'I saw as' possess any meaning to you? As in 'past tense'?
    I think you have made your views completely clear over the past two days. You don't have much use for me, perhaps with some cause. I don't know.
    Suggest you give it a rest.
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Hi Alfred,
    What about the old account renamed in "Alfred Newman" ? Would be a wink to your previous identity, and still better accepted than "Paul" (not you Paul, I meant "The Paul Newman" ). And people like Kathy who knew and appreciated you under your previous name still could identify you as YOU . And I personally like "Newman" : it sounds like a promise, doesn't it ?
    Best,
    Phil.
    PS: I just read the new posts you wrote while I was writing mine. We reach here the virtual communication limits : in real life, we'd drink a (few) beer(s) together and solve/stop the issue. Unfortunatley, the only ones we can drink here ( ) make me thirsty .
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Originally posted by Philippe Maquet:

    What about the old account renamed in "Alfred Newman" ? Would be a wink to your previous identity, and still better accepted than "Paul" (not you Paul, I meant "The Paul Newman" ). And people like Kathy who knew and appreciated you under your previous name still could identify you as YOU . And I personally like "Newman" : it sounds like a promise, doesn't it ?


    I like that idea, Phil. If Da Man approves that is exactly what I'll do! Paul?

    Originally posted by Philippe Maquet:
    PS: I just read the new posts you wrote while I was writing mine. We reach here the virtual communication limits : in real life, we'd drink a (few) beer(s) together and solve/stop the issue. Unfortunatley, the only ones we can drink here ( ) make me thirsty .


    Depends on where. French beer?!!!
    When in France I usually go for a pastis or a nice glass of whatever the Vin du Pays is. Cider in Normandy and Brittany. Unfortunately I'm not in France nearly enough to suit me. Best country on the planet in lot's of ways. Only one obvious improvement needed. Demolish the ENA and barr it's graduates from the government forever....
    Belgian beer is my all-time favorite with Bavarian wiezenbier close behind. Guinness in Ireland and Newcastle Brown Ale in the UK....
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Depends on where. French beer?!!!


    French beer ? As I live in Brussels, Belgium, of course I was thinking of belgian ones !
    This ridiculously small country (about 250 * 120 kms) makes hundreds different kinds of beer, with a few categories of them unique in the world (Gueuze, Kriek, Trappistes, ...).

    Belgian beer is my all-time favorite with Bavarian wiezenbier close behind. Guinness in Ireland and Newcastle Brown Ale in the UK....


    I knew that Alfred couldn't be that bad...
    Cheers,
    Phil.
     
    Alfred Neese
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    French beer ? As I live in Brussels, Belgium, of course I was thinking of belgian ones !
    This ridiculously small country (about 250 * 120 kms) makes hundreds different kinds of beer, with a few categories of them unique in the world (Gueuze, Kriek, Trappistes, ...).


    Ridiculously small? Got that right..... Only one thing wrong with Bruxelles. It has a two-letter acronym.
    God drinks Kriek IMHO. Hoegaarden is the best wheat beer around, and the Trappist stuff is amazingly good. I love Ostend (don't ask me why), Bruges, and Antwerp. Don't know that much about Wallonia, although Huy was very nice and Namur had the worst maintained railway station I ever saw.......
     
    Philippe Maquet
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    Woaw ! You visited Belgium ! A shame you did before we knew each other . Anyway, if you come back, please send me a PM before coming so we can meet.
    Best,
    Phil.
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Philippe Maquet ]
     
    Thomas Paul
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    Originally posted by Alfred Neese:
    I think you have made your views completely clear over the past two days. You don't have much use for me, perhaps with some cause. I don't know.

    You don't like my putting words in your mouth then stop putting them in mine.
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Paul Wheaton ]
     
    paul wheaton
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    I am thinking of demanding a bit more respect for the JavaRanch staff. These folks donate a great deal of time to keep the peace here, plus they donate a freaky big slice of time to simply help folks learn java. These people are not the servants of the folks that stop by. Nor am I.
    I agree that when I read Thomas's posts in this thread he appears angry. He is saying things that I think are a bit harsh. And Thomas disagrees with me more than any other staff member. On the other hand, Thomas contributes more to this community than I do. Therefore, what Thomas says has a huge amount of weight with me. Thomas never plays the devils advocate and he is almost always right.
    In this case, I think Thomas is saying some things that perhaps I should have said earlier on. I think myself and the JavaRanch staff have made some sacrifices that we should not need to make in order to make a smooth road for one person. In other words, we are sacrificing a great deal of time that could be used on other matters. I would like to think that other folks in the community might say "my bad, allow me to also make sacrifices to smooth this over." Instead, it feels a bit like "well, you've given me ten dollars, maybe if I push a little more you will give me twenty!"
    I think I have gone waaaaay out of my way to be accomidating here. I have been patient. I have listened. I have gotten involved in something that should have been resolved in two minutes many months/years ago.
    I have repeatedly expressed what my concerns are. I have also expressed that the main reason we are cracking down these days is because I want to save time. Yet the feeling I get is not one of cooperation. It's more like "where are the loopholes in what you say?"
    Philippe, you are a more generous and forgiving man than I. As my daughter is fond of saying these days: "I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request." (I think this is a quote from the pirates of the carribean movie) When the staff talks to somebody about rules, policies and that sort of thing, I want to encourage people to work with the staff. Not ignore them.
    When I tried to talk to "Alfred", my plan was to have him change his own name. It would then be over. His account would still show his 700 posts. As it is, I am currently operating over a very slow connection. It takes a fair amount of time for me to do damn near anything. And, "Alfred", I truly do appreciate that you lost a long, heart felt post, because my connection loses a couple of posts a day. Including two in this very thread.
    So I guess the moral of the story is, if I were to reactivate that account, the message I send to folks is something along the lines that working with the staff has the same rewards as dodging the staff. My goal is to do things that make things easier on the staff so they can spend more time talking about java and less time saying "You there! Stop that!"
    How about my needs, eh? How about a little leg work on the other end of this deal to help me get to where I am going? I think I've made clear what my concerns are and why, and yet I'm not getting the feeling of folks going out of their way to accomodate me. It kinda has this smell of me being somebody's unpaid butler or something ("shall I now shine your shoes for you sir?").
    I have had several staff members point out to me that I'm spending waaaaay too much time here trying to make things smooth when I should just dictate the way things are going to be and move on to more important matters. And I am now convinced.
    These two threads shall remain open. I'm an advocate for open bashing of the management. Well, open bashing of me anyway. Of course, whining doesn't get far with me, but brief persuasion has been known to work.
    "Alfred", in many ways you appear to be a decent chap. I think your request to re-open your old account could be classified in your mind as "it couldn't hurt to ask" and I think you are discovering that you were wrong about that too. Your story about bad guys in your past has a huge amount of weight with me, and will always play a significant role in my future decisions about the naming policy. I am now asking you to create a whole new account. Please don't tell anybody that it is not your real name - let folks get the idea that it is your real name. Please don't say "I used to be Alfred." Do me a favor and don't make me shut down the Neese account - after all, with these two threads still here, it makes is clear that that account is obviously fictitious. Just stop using it.
    You screwed up. Own it. Make the best of it. I would hope that a decent guy would find a way to pay a bit of a penance. Maybe help a few java newbies.
    And Thomas, once again you were right.
    Sorry to rain on the parade here. But I feel that my attempt to facilitate a smooth and happy ending was going goofy. I need to wrap this thing up and work on other stuff.
    (what the hell is all this stuff about hats? Maybe a new thread in MD?)
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Paul Wheaton ]
     
    Alfred Neese
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    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:

    I am thinking of demanding a bit more respect for the JavaRanch staff. These folks donate a great deal of time to keep the peace here, plus they donate a freaky big slice of time to simply help folks learn java. These people are not the servants of the folks that stop by. Nor am I.
    I agree that when I read Thomas's posts in this thread he appears angry. He is saying things that I think are a bit harsh. And Thomas disagrees with me more than any other staff member. On the other hand, Thomas contributes more to this community than I do. Therefore, what Thomas says has a huge amount of weight with me. Thomas never plays the devils advocate and he is almost always right.


    I apologize because my words have been taken to mean disrespect. No disrespect is intended to any of the moderators and I apologize without reserve for causing anyone to believe it was. Your enormous contributions are obvious to anyone who spends any time around here at all.
    The reaction to all this astonished me. Now I need to think again.

    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:
    I would like to think that other folks in the community might say "my bad, allow me to also make sacrifices to make smooth this over." Instead, it feels a bit like "well, if you'll give me ten dollars, maybe you will give me twenty."
    I have repeatedly expressed what my concerns are. I have also expressed that the main reason we are cracking down these days is because I want to save time. Yet the feeling I get is not one of cooperation. It's more like "where are the loopholes in what you say?"


    I'm willing to live with what you decide. If you need more just ask.

    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:

    "Alfred", in many ways you appear to be a decent chap. I think your request to re-open your old account could be classified as "it couldn't hurt to ask" and I think you are discovering that were wrong about that too. Your story about bad guys in your past has a huge amount of weight with me, and will always play a significant role in my future decisions about the naming policy. I am now asking you to creat a whole new account. Please don't tell anybody that it is not your real name - let folks get the idea that it is your real name. Please don't say "I used to be Alfred." Do me a favor and don't make me shut down the Neese account - after all, with these two threads still here, it makes is clear that that account is obviously fictitious. Just stop using it.


    You got it. Agreed.

    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:

    You screwed up. Own it. Make the best of it. I would hope that a decent guy would find a way to pay a bit of a penance. Maybe help a few java newbies.


    I have been all along. Primarily in the Jobs Discussion thread.

    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:

    (what the hell is all this stuff about hats? Maybe a new thread in MD?)


    Six Thinking Hats by a chap named Edward De Bono. It's fashionable in some management circles and is actually pretty useful. Your last post sounded a little like a Six Hats facilitator (aka chairman).
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
    [ December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neese ]
     
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