What are the main advantages of Mughal's book, compared to K&B Book?

[Andre Roodt]

Originally posted by Ko Ko Naing:

Hi Andres,
I don't think that JQPlus is with SCWCD Study Kit... But JWebPlus is with the book.... I have read that book for three times already and I'm on my way to the new SCWCD in January as well...

I am going outside now to bury my head in the sand. I think I need to take some time off. Even my wife is getting annoyed with me as I am permanently reciting stuff to myself that I memorised. I answer "Andre, have you fed the cats" with "Java is not C++", and "Is there enough milk for tomorrow" with "Protected, Public and Private". I wonder if there is a support group for Spouses of Certificate Candidates.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Andr� Roodt:

I am going outside now to bury my head in the sand. I think I need to take some time off. Even my wife is getting annoyed with me as I am permanently reciting stuff to myself that I memorised. I answer "Andre, have you fed the cats" with "Java is not C++", and "Is there enough milk for tomorrow" with "Protected, Public and Private". I wonder if there is a support group for Spouses of Certificate Candidates.

U got sense of humor... But u know, if sthing is missed or modified in Programming-related stuffs, the whole thing will go wrong for that...
By the way, do u use M&R book for SCJP? Could u share us about your experience on it, as there is a big issue, comparing with K&B book here... :roll:

[Andre Roodt]

I am using the K&B book to study from, and only use the M&R book to get another point of view on a subject. I also only have the first edition of M&R.
I find K&B easier to study, I suppose it suits my learning style. Even though I am an experienced programmer, I find the M&R book has too much detail for the purpose of the exam. I am saying this without having written the exam, so time will tell whether I have made the right choice.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Andr� Roodt:
I am saying this without having written the exam, so time will tell whether I have made the right choice.

Did u get SCJP 1.2? Coz u said u have the first edition... The first edition is only for the version 1.2, isn't it?
I saw most of the people compared the first edition of M&R book with K&R book... Since K&R Book is based on the SCJP 1.4, I felt they are not comparable.... It should be the second edition to be compared with each other....
Do u agree with me, Andr�?

[Andre Roodt]

I do agree to an extent, although the first book can still be used for 1.4 by downloading the extra chapter on Assertions.
My comparison relates to the writing style and approach between M&R and K&B, so certification versions would not be relevant.
I still think both books are excellent, and would recommend that one carefully selects a book that suits your learning style.
B.T.W. I never did write the 1.2. I was seduced by Microsoft and ended up doing VB for a couple of years. I am still trying hard to recover from this experience, but I'm sure that the guilt will pass with time. I suppose it beats standing on the street corner with a sign reading "Will code Java for food". I am happy to say that I am now a full time Java programmer, and every line of Java I write helps to "DIM" the memory of VB.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Andr� Roodt:
[QB]B.T.W. I never did write the 1.2. I was seduced by Microsoft and ended up doing VB for a couple of years. I am still trying hard to recover from this experience, but I'm sure that the guilt will pass with time.[QB]

So u r now on ur way back to SCJP 1.4... At that time when u was seduced by Microsoft, did u try to sit for the SCJP 1.2? Coz u said that u have the first edition and I think the main point of buying tha book at that time is to sit for the SCJP 1.2 exam... Isn't it?
It's nice to know u, Andr�... I can feel ur sense of humor and I like that kind of person....

[Pradeep bhatt]

I had used both books for my exam.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Hi Pradeep,
Why don't u share your personal opinion on it here then?

[Andre Roodt]

Thanks,
I didn't do the 1.2 exam, although that was my intention when buying the book. To be truthfull, at the time I only wanted to get certified as a career move. I did attend a comprehensive six month Java course before that and was probably ready to write the exam with a little studying.
When I got the VB job I assumed that my Java days were over and decided not to write the exam. Ironically, the company that hired me as a VB programmer got a Java contract and moved me across based on my previous training. At least all that money and time I spent on Java training worked out in the end, even though I didn't write the exam.
The lesson I learned from this is that any and all studying, training and exams that you attempt will always be of benefit, even if you only reap the benefits two years later.
The reason I want to write the exam now is to become a better programmer.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Andr� Roodt,
Don't u forget ur Java knowledge, since it's been a long time that u didn't use Java...
As for me, I used to learn C/C++ in the university... I can't refresh that knowledge back again... I almost forgot that language, since I haven't used it for a very very long time...

[Andre Roodt]

The Java knowledge came back to me quite quickly, and luckily the code I am writing is core Java, not Enterprise related. None of the training I did touched on J2EE at all. It was purely J2SE and a lot of OO / UML theory, which I believe has been a really good foundation.
In fact, I think beginners to Java should put as much work, if not more work into OO principals as they do with the language itself. What do you think?

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Andr� Roodt:
In fact, I think beginners to Java should put as much work, if not more work into OO principals as they do with the language itself. What do you think?

More works will surely make us more understanding and less memorization on a certain language...
Sometimes I had to face such situation like u.... I had to study C/C++ in the university, when I was on my way to SCJP at that time... And when I got a job with J2EE project, I was on my way to CCNA accidently... Moreover I'm now doing J2SE project, which is related to CRM and SWING and I'm on my way to SCWCD...
I hope that I'll get an EJB project, coz I'm going for SCBCD next... For upgrading to SCJP 1.4, I think it's not a big deal for me... Just skimming through the two famous books; K&B Book and M&R Book would be enough to pass the upgrade exam....

[Vad Fogel]

From how this thread gets inflated, Khalid'd better give away 4*10 copies...
BTW, is there any chance that the free downloadable SCJP exam engine will someday come with correct answers (maybe, even explanations )?

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Vad Fogel:
BTW, is there any chance that the free downloadable SCJP exam engine will someday come with correct answers (maybe, even explanations )?

I'm not sure what u meant by "SCJP exam engine" in this case... R u referring to any simulation software or sthing? If so, I think most of them have correct answers with explanations..... If u r referring to the real SCJP exam engine from Sun, there will be no way that it will become free and downloadable....

[Vad Fogel]

Since we're still in the context of M&R discussion, I meant their free test engine, namely pgjc-engine.jar

[Mohit Goyal]

There is no doubt that Khalid's book provides a more comprehensive coverage of the exam objectives and supplementary objectives. Towards the end of my preparation i really enjoyed reading their book. in my opinion after reading their book u really wudn't need to go through the JLS since they provide that knowledge in an easier and understandable manner than the JLS.
However if u r just worried about which book u shud read to pass the exam, i wud say Kathy & Bates book is the way to go. It covers all the exam objectives well and teaches u in the most easiest manner. Also it has the exam watch sections which r crucial to know what cud be the possible traps on the exam.
So if u want to buy a book just for certification purpose then K&B is the one u shud consider buying.
But if u want to have a deeper understanding of the java language and at the same time pass the exam, Then Khalid's book is better.
For me the combination of the two worked as I scored 98% and also got additional about java which wud be useful in future.

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Mohit Goyal:
But if u want to have a deeper understanding of the java language and at the same time pass the exam, Then Khalid's book is better.
For me the combination of the two worked as I scored 98% and also got additional about java which wud be useful in future.

I hope that u r referring to the first edition of the Khalid's book... What is your opinion on the second book? I think there should be some more improvements on the second edition, since it is known that the first edition is too technical for the dunmmies to catch up the concepts...
And Mr.Mughal also mention that they improved a lot in the second edition of the book...

[Khalid A. Mughal]

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:
After reading this thread, I'm certain that many readers will remain somewhat confused until the following question is answered. Suppose a SCJP aspirant has been dancing all night in a pub in Dublin. While resting at the bar, he orders a pint of Guinness. While enjoying his first sip of the thick and creamy brew, he notices a beautiful red head walk over to the bar and sit down next to him. As he is getting ready to hit on her, he wants to make sure that he uses his best line. The first idea that pops into his head is a question concerning the difference between overriding an instance method and hiding a class method. He wants to make sure that he has all of his answer options straight. The mood is festive and he's in a pub so he's thinking about referring to K&B. At that instant, he remembers that M&R is highly recommended as a reference book. He confused. Which book should he use!

After chewing the cud with the rowdy crowd at the Java NullPointerException Bar, I came up with the following answer -- if you can call it an answer.
The choice the SCJP aspirant makes will depend on his level of intoxication.
If he is drunk, he will opt for the S&B book.
If he is sober, he will opt for the M&R book.
However, he is well adviced not to make a statement like: "I am getting certified".
In certain circles, this might label the guy as a certified nut-case, conjuring up visions of straight jackets and that fashionable Hannibal Hector mask.
So, good luck to the SCJP aspirant.
And drink up!
Bottoms up!
Down the hatch!
Sk�l!
Cheers!
-- khalid
[ December 19, 2003: Message edited by: Khalid A. Mughal ]

[Ko Ko Naing]

Originally posted by Khalid A. Mughal:

The choice the SCJP aspirant makes will depend on his level of intoxication.
If he is drunk, he will opt for the S&B book.
If he is sober, he will opt for the M&R book.
So, good luck to the SCJP aspirant.
And drink up!
Bottoms up!
Down the hatch!
Sk�l!

It's good that the SCJP aspirants won't die of liver cancer, before he drunk two full bottles of S&B Bottle and M&R Bottle...
For me, I guess I am dying of liver cancer, coz I was affected, since I got SCJP 1.2....

[Solveig Laura Haugland]

After all the conversations a couple weeks ago, does no one else see this isn't a book issue? ;> Here's how the answers would go on the JRCDA (JavaRanch Certified Dating Architect) exam.
A Call his female friend who lives around the corner and quickly implement Trojan Proxy
B Implement Dating Savant by asking her if by any chance she knows where the best Bavarian restaurant in town is, or perhaps where to get a good andiron. Or he's just new in town and wants to know which beer is best.
C Start off with a quick round of Carl Cassel Connection Pool and go straight into Distinterested Requester
D All of the above
E None of the above
F B and C
G Any of A through C

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:
After reading this thread, I'm certain that many readers will remain somewhat confused until the following question is answered. Suppose a SCJP aspirant has been dancing all night in a pub in Dublin. While resting at the bar, he orders a pint of Guinness. While enjoying his first sip of the thick and creamy brew, he notices a beautiful red head walk over to the bar and sit down next to him. As he is getting ready to hit on her, he wants to make sure that he uses his best line. The first idea that pops into his head is a question concerning the difference between overriding an instance method and hiding a class method. He wants to make sure that he has all of his answer options straight. The mood is festive and he's in a pub so he's thinking about referring to K&B. At that instant, he remembers that M&R is highly recommended as a reference book. He confused. Which book should he use!

[Dan Chisholm]

Solveig,
You have made some good points. From the perspective of theory, I think that both books adequately address the concept of overriding an instance method. Even so, as has been pointed out in another thread, the exam and both study guides fall short in the area of practical information such as dating and pickup techniques. I have not yet read your book, but it appears to fill the void.

[Solveig Laura Haugland]

I believe Theodore and some other folks from the Dating Design Patterns discussion have already dibsed doing the JRCDA study guides, so that'll be the key focus for offical dating certification. Though I do hope they'll acknowledge me in their works. ;> (Paul hasn't officially said OK to JavaRanch sponsoring the Certified Dating Architect program but I would say it's only a matter of time, eh? ;> )
Solveig

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:
Solveig,
You have made some good points. From the perspective of theory, I think that both books adequately address the concept of overriding an instance method. Even so, as has been pointed out in another thread, the exam and both study guides fall short in the area of practical information such as dating and pickup techniques. I have not yet read your book, but it appears to fill the void.