good news all you guys ... job market on the rise !!!!!!

[sravana reddibathini]

REALITY CHECK
By Richard Reeves
NEW YORK -- The Stevens Indicator, the alumni magazine of the school from which I received an ME (Mechanical Engineer) degree more than 30 years ago, includes a list of new faculty each year. The current issue profiles the 15 appointed in 2000-2001.
Here are the names by department: Electrical and Computer Engineering: Edward Blicharz, Rajarathnam Chandramouli, Hong Man, K.P. Subbalakshmi, Uf Tureli; Chemistry and Chemical Engineering: Svetlana Sukhishvili, Olga Maltseva, Nicolai Panikov; Mathematical Sciences: Darinka Dentcheva, Mohammad Abanjeh; Systems Engineering and Management: John Farr, John Keating, Robert Seymour, Bernard Skown, Robert Stinerock.
That is part of today's reality in American hard-sciences scholarship and achievement. The teachers in that group all did their graduate work at American universities, where by some estimates more than half of the doctorates in the hard sciences now are earned by foreigners. Their undergraduate degrees are from, among other places, the University of Madras, Humboldt University in Berlin, the University of Suzhou, Ural State at Sverdlosk, Moscow State University, Indian Institute of Sciences, Bangalore and Yarmouk University in Irbid, Jordan.
It is not, strictly speaking, a new reality. Albert Einstein, after all, did not do his undergraduate work at Princeton. He was, like many of the Nobel Prize winners who helped make the University of California the greatest of public schools, a refugee from the Europe Hitler conquered. Like some of the new professors at Stevens, his English may not have been perfect, but he spoke an international language called mathematics.
Already, two Indian-Americans -- Hargobind Khorana of Harvard and Subramanian Chandrasekhar of the University of Chicago -- are Nobel laureates.
Indian-Americans, in fact, are among the most educated citizens and residents in our country. Over the past 25 years, Indian-American children have been three times as likely to graduate from college as white American children. Perhaps most important in terms of what the future will look like in the United States, the percentage of Indian-Americans who are between the ages of 18 and 24 is five times more than the percentage of white Americans who are between those ages.
The traffic in highly educated young men and women from Asia to the United States is a complicated business. Estimates of the numbers of graduates from American schools of science and technology who stay in the United States rather than returning home range from 50 percent to 80 percent; one of the things that complicate statistics is love and marriage. Many foreign students end up with American husbands or wives.
Many Indians, though, decide to go home after working here for a few years. There are more opportunities at home now because of the global economy and evolving communications technology, which allow them to do the same kind of work and teaching they can do in the United States or Europe. Many go back because "family values" mean so much less here than in Asian societies. Some, particularly Chinese, go back for patriotic reasons: They want to share in the building of their own countries.
You can say that these "aliens" are taking jobs from our kids and other Americans, but how many of our kids are accomplished in stochastic optimization, as is Dr. Dentcheva, or three-dimensional sub-band video-coding algorithm, as is Dr. Man? Or, you could say that we are stealing the best and the brightest from the rest of the world, particularly Russia and the poorer parts of Asia.
Either way, I think, American wins. This is a meritocracy. Most of these people are doing jobs that very few Americans can do, just as many other immigrants (many of them illegal) from Mexico and Central America are doing jobs Americans don't want to do -- like scrubbing dishes in restaurants plain and fancy.
The advances made by educated new immigrants have caused pessimists here to conclude that the "American Dream" is dead. The opposite is true. The American Dream belongs to the whole world now.
________________________________________________________________
This is a news item in one of the newspapers in Newyork

[Chris Camisa]

I've read through about half the messages in this thread, and I can see that we're going straight to the gutter... I feel the little hate mongers here starting to get personal... I don't know why people are attacking one another here. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Java.
People are inherently intolerant of other cultures... At the same time it can be said that no one wants to see "new" people coming in and taking their jobs.
If you DON'T like seeing the H1B people working in America (Regardless of their qualifications) than arguing here is not the answer... Rather, you should get out of your current corporate situation altogether and aristocratically build a network of rich white people who work only within their circle.
This will isolate you from people you do not want to do business with, and will guarantee your only associating with people whom you consider to be the best.
Arguing about these visa's is very very similar to the problems we had in my high school back in the nineties over racial integration problems.
Another comment I have... I just finished 2 semesters of grad classes at a "State University"... and more than 2/3 of the student populous COULD NOT speak proper English...(mostly Indians and Asians) So, here is the problem with them. 1.) They segregated themselves into small work groups, because they couldn't communicate well with others. 2.) They are quite "clickish" and did not contribute to the meaningful exchange of information that was taking place between other students.
3.) I'm not going to put my foot in my mouth and brashly genarlize or stereotype anylonger.
But, I just want to say, if I was a manager of a small firm, where I want to hire 25-70 developers full-time... I would hire the people who just entered the country in positions of other work. (E.g. overqualified clerical workers, and mailroom people) They would NOT be depended on for mission critical work and they would NOT every be in a hiring position to bring more people over from their mother country.
Conversely, if I was in a rather large corporation with a multinational base, I wouldn't care either way because I'd be making money hand over fist...
Rhetoric is hectic... and mine is fine; just don't get personal because that's where I draw the line.
--Chris Camisa

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Chris Camisa:
I've read through about half the messages in this thread, and I can see that we're going straight to the gutter... I feel the little hate mongers here starting to get personal... I don't know why people are attacking one another here. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Java.
People are inherently intolerant of other cultures... At the same time it can be said that no one wants to see "new" people coming in and taking their jobs.
If you DON'T like seeing the H1B people working in America (Regardless of their qualifications) than arguing here is not the answer... Rather, you should get out of your current corporate situation altogether and aristocratically build a network of rich white people who work only within their circle.
This will isolate you from people you do not want to do business with, and will guarantee your only associating with people whom you consider to be the best.
Arguing about these visa's is very very similar to the problems we had in my high school back in the nineties over racial integration problems.
Another comment I have... I just finished 2 semesters of grad classes at a "State University"... and more than 2/3 of the student populous COULD NOT speak proper English...(mostly Indians and Asians) So, here is the problem with them. 1.) They segregated themselves into small work groups, because they couldn't communicate well with others. 2.) They are quite "clickish" and did not contribute to the meaningful exchange of information that was taking place between other students.
3.) I'm not going to put my foot in my mouth and brashly genarlize or stereotype anylonger.
But, I just want to say, if I was a manager of a small firm, where I want to hire 25-70 developers full-time... I would hire the people who just entered the country in positions of other work. (E.g. overqualified clerical workers, and mailroom people) They would NOT be depended on for mission critical work and they would NOT every be in a hiring position to bring more people over from their mother country.
Conversely, if I was in a rather large corporation with a multinational base, I wouldn't care either way because I'd be making money hand over fist...
Rhetoric is hectic... and mine is fine; just don't get personal because that's where I draw the line.
--Chris Camisa

Maybe you need to read all of the messages before jumping to such inflammatory conclusions. This may be the most offensive of all the comments I've read on this topic so far unfortunately. . Basically what you seem to be saying is "anyone who doesn't agree with the H1B program must be a racist." It sickens me that whenever a disagreement arises over something that happens to maybe include parties of different races, some people tend to be quick to jump to the conclusion that race is the motivator for the disagreement.
This is unfair and uncalled for. If you would read all of the messages you would see that the problem some have is with the program, not the people who work in the program. This is a political-economic problem, nothing else. I'm not sure if you are aware, but H1B workers come from all over the world, not just China and India. This includes countries such as the UK and Australia. The issues are the same regardless of where the H1B workers are from since the issues have little to do with the workers themselves.

Arguing about these visa's is very very similar to the problems we had in my high school back in the nineties over racial integration problems.

I would be interested to learn how the H1B program and racial integration problems at your highschool are so similar. They don't seem remotely parallel to me, but then I don't know what your situation was. By the way, by racial integration do you mean bussing students from one school district to another? I know this happened a bit during the 90's. If that is indeed what you are talking about it is another assumption that people who disagree with a program such as that must be racists. I do feel that in the case of bussing from one district to another that the opposition felt by many was race-based, but I definitely do not feel that was the problem in all cases. But that's another topic that has no relevance to this discussion.

If you DON'T like seeing the H1B people working in America (Regardless of their qualifications) than arguing here is not the answer... Rather, you should get out of your current corporate situation altogether and aristocratically build a network of rich white people who work only within their circle.

Okay maybe that's your solution. Here's my solution to the H1B program and I will also speculate why it will never becaome reality. Instead of handing out temporary work visas, why not just relax immigration for workers with certain skills who wish to immigrate? It seems that a good portion of the H1B workers do want to stay here on a permanent basis. We are a country whose existence is based on immigration, so why not continue that tradition while targetting certain areas that will help keep our country strong? This would be the perfect solution in my opinion. Why won't this happen? Because the American companies would no longer be able to exploit them like they can temporary overseas labor. The entire basis for the H1B program as it relates to the IT industry is to provide cheaper labor, so there would be no savings if these same workers were permanent residents or citizens.
Please, instead of making anymore cheap and baseless racist accusations, check out Professor Norm Matloff's Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage.
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited July 07, 2001).]

[Sean Casey]

I'd also have to agree with Dan and Jason. This is more about the program than the people participating in it.

[Bartholemu Smith]

What do you guys feel about TN-1 Visa's? For people from Canada?
I have heard alot about "Indians" coming over to the US. I am not sure exactly why they are so popular. I think most Americans can do the same as Indians can. Is it because of the wages? I am not trying to make some ignorant statement, just trying to get the facts.
Any comments?
Cheers
Faze
------------------
Faisal Dosani
B.Sc, AIT, SCJP

[Jason Menard]

I had never heard of a TN-1 visa, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Basically, a TN-1 is a Canadian H1B. It is designed to grant a work visa to certain professionals, similar to the H1B. On the little I've just read about it, I have no problems with it. Here is why:
1. Canada's economy and standard of living parallel our own. The reason this is significant is that it means Canadian workers demand similar wages to American workers. Further, the processing for a TN-1 is low-cost, nearly instantaneous, and easily attainable in most situations. What all this means is that the Canadian worker is relatively free from exploitation. It also removes the economic incentive to hire a Canadian over an American. The economic incentive for employers to hire H1B workers is one of the major faults with the H1B program.
2. Maybe some would disagree with me, but I actually believe there should be no barriers, such as the TN-1, to employment of Canadians. The reason being is that our countries are so dependant on each other in so many ways, we are ALMOST the same country (no offense meant to any Canadians). I would doubt there are many countries in the world that share the relationship that the US and Canada share. For all intents and purposes, the continental US really has no northern border to pay much attention to. Because of this, what is in Canada's best interest is in our best interest.
A couple of interesting notes....
The TN-1 visa was established (or maybe just further defined) under the North American Free Trade Agreement. As such there is a similar visa for professionals from Mexico. For some reason the requirements for TN status from Mexico are a little more stringent than Canada. Basically, a TN-1 visa may be processed nearly instantaneously at a point of entry. The equivalent type visa for workers from Mexico requires processing through an embassy or consulate, as well as that the employer must file a petition with the INS.
There are a couple of things in the H1B's favor vs the TN-1. The H1B is granted for 3 years, while the TN-1 must be renewed annually. There is no limit to number of times a TN-1 may be renewed however, while I believe there is a limit to the number of times an H1B may be renewed. Also, any foreign citizen (even Canadians) attempting entry to the United States may be denied admission unless they can prove they have no intention of immigrating to the United States. This stipulation DOES NOT hold true for holders of H1B visas however, so they are free to seek immigration.
Well that's my .02 anyway.
Jason
[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited July 09, 2001).]

[Bartholemu Smith]

Jason, Good points..
I am currently in the US working in Washington state. Canada and US really are one country. We do so much trade and work together it would be silly to have a wall up against each other. After all it is the worlds longest undefended border, and for good reason.
I have no problems with Americans coming over to Canada, but usually it works the other way around with Canadians going down south. Either way the TN-1 visa is a way for Canadian professionals to get down to the US without getting a H1 Visa. Takes about 30 mins to get and cost 150$. Its valid for a year, and is fully renewable.
Ahh well this topic could go on forever. Many different opinions as from the previous posts.
Faze
------------------
Faisal Dosani
B.Sc, AIT, SCJP

[Bartholemu Smith]

Some people are misinterpurting my post so I am just pulling it..Sorry to those I offended..that wasnt my intention

------------------
Faisal Dosani
B.Sc, AIT, SCJP
[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited July 11, 2001).]

[Bartholemu Smith]

Dan,
I agree. I was kinda making a comment in general, not specifically to what you posted. But I have found many bangwagon people, who want to do IT when they could really care less about it. But you are right with your statement from before.

[Scott McCartney]

Hmmm, hate is a pretty stong word. I'm what you might consider an "IT bandwagoner" and I'm sure you have your reasons for hating us bandwagoners. But it strikes me as ignorant stereotyping. I'll bet you are one of those who believes that you must absolutely love whatever you do to make money. If that were the case I think there would be way too many ice cream tasters in the world don't you? I'm a pragmatist. I work to make money. And knowing something about how economics works, I chose a field where there was a demand. It makes (made) me happy to be in demand. So in a sense, I was pursuing my God given right to happiness. And I guess you hate me for that huh?

[Alex Ayzin]

Faisal, aren't we a little idealistic? Are you ready to start coding for bread and water? I agree, people who's been with the same company could be considered as "loyal". Does it make that "loyal" person better than consultants, contractors and people who you call "IT bandwagon people". Why? Do you know, how much skill does it take to become a consultant? We don't stay at the same company for 5 - 10 years, OK. But it mens that our skillset is not stalled, we're good and skilled(sorry to brag, but I just hate to be labeled by somebody who's so square.) So what, that we're progmatic? Let me ask you a wuestion: are our employers loyal to us, its workforce? No, we're being fired, laid off and substituted for a cheaper workforce. They use us, we use them. It's a change, everybody's happy. If you're so altruistic about IT, next time you get paid just reject your salary and give it to some IT charity. I work in NYC, make money and proud that I can give my family a good living.
Please, grow up,
--Alex
[This message has been edited by Alex Ayzin (edited July 11, 2001).]

[Bartholemu Smith]

When i refer to "IT bandwagon" people I am refering to those people who go to HTML schools and who expect 60k/yr...I am not talking about consultants, and contractors..
I went to school with serveral people, who paid all this money for all these courses and really did'nt even care about what they learnt. All they did was complain about the education they got but also never went out of their way to learn anything extra.
Sorry if you guys took my comments the wrong way...
But I am allowed to have a opinion regardless of if people like it or not.

[Bartholemu Smith]

I never said I dont want to get paid good money, but I dont want to work with people who dont really want to work with the Technology. Maybe I came off the wrong way but I have seen people who beleive as soon as they graduate they will have companies coming up and throwing jobs at them. I just hate that mentality... Thats my 2 cents..
Scott ..Sorry but I beleive you misunderstood what I ment.
Alex..I never said anything about loyalty...I was refering to something completely different. Not about company loyalty but rather a loyalty to a certain extent to the profession...I could care less if you stay witha company for 2 months or 20 years...i wasnt refering to that...I know being a consulting can be a hard job and I am not sure where you got the idea that I think consulting is "IT Bandwagon"...???
Easy boys...I dont consider you guys IT bandwagon you obviously care about technology to a certain extent otherwsie you wouldnt be posting on here...anyway...

[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited July 11, 2001).]

[Gokhan Gultekin]

Why did you choose IT then ?

[Bartholemu Smith]

Who are you asking...
I think this thread is kind of coming to a end. It really has nothing to even do with what started off..

[Andrew Shafer]

Isn't that the way it always goes?

[Alok Pota]

University education is not geared towards getting real jobs.
That is a sad fact of universities all over the world. Thats why we have traning shops like NIIT,Apple (in India) who fill the gap. Lets just face it, I just don't understand Princeton and IIT graduates cribbing about job skills when none of them have been exposed to SAP R/3 in their 4 years at school. why would you be hired for a SAP job? The IT market is vendor and skill driven. If H1B folks have the relevant skills, does it matter
if he/she went to IIT or some other 4 yr university.

[Bartholemu Smith]

I have to agree. I dont think that Universities alone can offer the skills needed to get a job. I mean it helps but in sucha competitivie market you have to do things on the side, and do real world projects. Going to specialized schools can help, who focus on IT professionals and career services. I went to one and with my Computer Science degree really helped out and mad me more marketable.
But I am not saying that being a computer science grad is not going to land you a job alone. I know many people who right out of school got great jobs, it depends on connections and your ability to sell yourself.
Faisal

[Alok Pota]

Indian programmers have always been in high demand in the US because of their language skills, high level of adaptibility and
hard working attitude. It is silly to differentiate between a person with 18 month tech course and one with a 4 yr degree.
First of all, I have a 4 yr degree and personally, I feel that university education merely makes you more reflective and it does not give you the "to go" skills that are required in the industry. University education is good for those system level, "invent another OS", "write a kernel" jobs, but for the most part most of the noise is in application development which cries out for very specific skills which 4 yr CS grads lack! (both in US & India). Whereas 4 yr CS grads certainly have the aptitude to learn stuff, would you pay someome to learn on your time?
Unless US & Indian universities shape up and equip their graduates with relevant skills, the trend to import H1B workers with very specific skills will continue. I don't think that H1B workers are robbing Americans of their jobs.
In fact I would rather have more H1B workers come in to US and work here rather than the US IT industry "Walmartize" the industry by sending IT work/projects offshore leaving Americans and all us Indians in the US to flip burgers.( Hmm lot of burgers)

[Bartholemu Smith]

"Indian programmers have always been in high demand in the US because of their language skills, high level of adaptibility and
hard working attitude"
Umm....I disagree...
I think the main reason there are many in the US is because its cheaper. I dont think they are anymore skilled than Americans. It would be ignorant to even make a statement like that. It depends on the person. You can't say a entire culture is smarter with programming.
------------------
Faisal Dosani
B.Sc, AIT, SCJP

[shashank shah]

My "american" co-worker about me(an H1B with 6 yrs Education- both BS MS - in CS):
<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:25:38 PM)-->: Hey

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:25:47 PM)-->: yes

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:26:03 PM)-->: You really ned to hype up your resume

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:26:11 PM)-->: hehe

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:26:41 PM)-->: Serious, your much smarted and talented than it shows

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:27:14 PM)-->: well ... I dont want that ... thats why I m getting calls only via references ... people who have seen me

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:27:26 PM)-->: seen me working that is

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:28:13 PM)-->: So when u get hired ... tell them i m good :-)

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:28:37 PM)-->: Why don't you want that

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:29:38 PM)-->: I m not good at justifying somthing that i did not do ... or rather I dont want to

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:29:48 PM)-->: I'm noyt saying lie.

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:29:51 PM)-->: not

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:29:57 PM)-->: hehe

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:30:07 PM)-->: Have you studied stuff you didn't do on the job

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">shashankbapat< !-- (8:31:35 PM)-->: yes .. so much ... amount of code i have written on job is less than i have written for free ... My first C program was 7 years back and am programming or studying since then

<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">mesohound< !-- (8:32:15 PM)-->: We need to talk, your resume underestimates you

[shashank shah]

The reason for previous post was to make it clear to you that from what I have seen so far doctoring resume is something that's done by ALL � and not just by H1B's.
I have seen so many Americans who don't have any knowledge but just talk about anything and everything and earn much much more than H1B's.
Most of you guys already admitted that H1B workers are cheap ie they get paid less. You guys have never realized that this goes against equal opportunity employment policy of any company. So when company hires an American paying higher salary than an Indian it is already making an "exception" for you. So don't complain.
As an H1B I pay Social Security tax but DO NOT get the benefits. You get it from my money. So don't complain.
As an H1B I pay for employment insurance/tax but DO NOT get the benefits. You get it from my money. So don't complain.
Each time I have to change job and file for H1B transfer my company has to pay heavy transfer fee � which in a way affects my salary. And most (90%) of this fee goes into a fund raised to improve education in US in these areas. So if an American claims that they are not short of technological talent/education, as an H1B I 'll be really happy to hear that. But I agree with US government policy. And I think that Americans still do need some education. So take that 1000$ each time I change a job. And Don't complain.

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Shah Vishal:
Hi,
I know how americans have got their degrees. Here at our university in florida, students come to us and say they will pay 150-200$ for their data strutures programs. Forget about data structures they dont know simple c or c++ programs like calculating your gpa.....What do you call this??? Real degree with fake education.
Thanks
Vishal Shah

Dear Vishal
Even in India I've seen people who have got master degree in computer science and working in big companies like HCL and even they dont know what is pdf file.
Sameer

[Raghav Mathur]

so ..... i started off with something good which turned out to be something i never expected .
anyways .......I came across one more good article .... i guess it helps this time .
http://infotech.indiatimes.com/news/sept/sept3/news01.html

[shashank shah]

Sameer, Vishal,
What I have learned so far is:
1>How happy u are.
2>How much u earn
3>What's ur education
4>What's ur knowledge
5>What's ur nationality
are all pretty much disjoint sets though at a first glance they do seem to be having substantial overlap. I have seen both talented/dumb Americans/Indians with/without degree and with/without knowledge with all possible combinations of these attributes.
Raghav,
I never meant to be so offensive but the fact is �they� started using the terms �they� and �us�. �They� changed the topic to �H1B�. Then �they� went ahead and started talking about �Indian H1B's� specifically. With their �*world* series� mentality started generalizing ALL Indian H1Bs based on their 2-3 experiences in some small market segment.
Few said things about their college loans etc. assuming that we don't have that problem (I just paid mine and 50% of my Indian friends are still paying their) And considering the fact that citizens always have preference at all the on campus jobs; they don't have restrictions of not working off campus. Late admission deadlines, low/no GRE score limits, In-State fees, Aid and Assistantships.. all the conditions being favorable; One really has to be lazy or have bad spending habits to accumulate so much of loan. May be spending habit is a cultural thing. In that case how are we responsible?
Few talked about English communication � An American like talking like about like Good English is like really like funny � Don't u think? Something �like� only country to have ever used nuclear weapons talking about disarmament with authority.
-Shashank
MS(CS),BE(CS),SCJP,H1B

[Sameer Jamal]

You r absolutely right shashank

Originally posted by shashank bapat:
Sameer, Vishal,
What I have learned so far is:
1>How happy u are.
2>How much u earn
3>What's ur education
4>What's ur knowledge
5>What's ur nationality
are all pretty much disjoint sets though at a first glance they do seem to be having substantial overlap. I have seen both talented/dumb Americans/Indians with/without degree and with/without knowledge with all possible combinations of these attributes.
Raghav,
I never meant to be so offensive but the fact is �they� started using the terms �they� and �us�. �They� changed the topic to �H1B�. Then �they� went ahead and started talking about �Indian H1B's� specifically. With their �*world* series� mentality started generalizing ALL Indian H1Bs based on their 2-3 experiences in some small market segment.
Few said things about their college loans etc. assuming that we don't have that problem (I just paid mine and 50% of my Indian friends are still paying their) And considering the fact that citizens always have preference at all the on campus jobs; they don't have restrictions of not working off campus. Late admission deadlines, low/no GRE score limits, In-State fees, Aid and Assistantships.. all the conditions being favorable; One really has to be lazy or have bad spending habits to accumulate so much of loan. May be spending habit is a cultural thing. In that case how are we responsible?
Few talked about English communication � An American like talking like about like Good English is like really like funny � Don't u think? Something �like� only country to have ever used nuclear weapons talking about disarmament with authority.
-Shashank
MS(CS),BE(CS),SCJP,H1B

[Amit Batra]

is this thread still open?

[Mark Herschberg]

Generally speaking, we don't close threads here. That said, as this thread is 5 years old relating to time sensative topics, and was rather heated, I would strongly discourage people from continuing it and instead just start a new thread.

--Mark

[Raghav Mathur]

WOW !!!

Good to see people still talking about even after 5 years !!! :-)

Anyways .. i agree with mark . Start talking about something new . why to carry on with the same old thing :-)

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Generally speaking, we don't close threads here. That said, as this thread is 5 years old relating to time sensative topics, and was rather heated, I would strongly discourage people from continuing it and instead just start a new thread.

--Mark

[Eric Lemaitre]

Hi Mark !

Generally speaking, we don't close threads here. That said, as this thread is 5 years old relating to time sensative topics, and was rather heated, I would strongly discourage people from continuing it and instead just start a new thread.

OK, but with latest relevant message issued some 4 years ago, topic should be closed anyway as no longer accurate considering present situation, no one's fault.

But up to date relevant topic already exists :
https://coderanch.com/t/30768/Jobs/careers/virtusa-hyd , hoping as a political subject it won't turn into a flame war...

Best regards.

[Amit Batra]

Sorry, I was basically looking for a discussion on what people thought about the job markets abroad. So I did a search and chanced uppon this. I realized this was half a decade ago, and thought it would be interesting to have some inputs that would provide a nice contrast to what the market is like today as compared to a time when it seemed that the only requirement to be a programmer was knowing how to spell Java, not to mention a time when outsourcing was a dirty word. Quite clearly the market has matured a bit now and has perhaps quelled some fears to some extent(I could be wrong). But I didnt mean to dig up old ghosts and realize that this here thread has the potential once again flare up old emotions. So perhaps it is better left closed.