Originally posted by Roseanne Zhang:
[QB]
It is a very bad job market for IT professionals, and it is much worse than 1991-1992 recession in IT job market point of view.
...
Why? It is because the ~10 years extremely hot booming IT market created/imported (from other job market or from other countries) more programmers (qualified or not) than demand. IT job market will take longer time to recover than the general job market IMHO.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I'm simply arguing that the current ratio is "normal" and previous ratio were "high" (as opposed to most people lately who seemed to take the last few years as "normal" or "good" and today as "bad").
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Originally posted by Roseanne Zhang:
Mark
I do not have numbers to support my point, and don't have time to do that research either. If you or anyone else think what I said is just stupid/ridiculous, I don't care... Actually, I want to be proved that way.![]()
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I wish I would be proved wrong, wrong, wrong!!!
I'm afraid I will be proved right.
Anything you need to quantify can be measured in some way that is superior to not measuring at all.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
About 270,000 workers--9.1% of the IT workforce--vanished in the past year, and no one's sure where they all went, or why. The chief suspects appear to be layoff-spurred career changes, post-Sept. 11 angst, and disillusionment following the dot bomb.
Rob
SCJP 1.4
Originally posted by Jim Baiter:
I think this is a decent site for info on the overall IT market and since it is part of the ACM, I consider it trustworthy.
http://campus.acm.org/crc/cri/categorylist-cri24-crc.cfm?cat_id=80&CFID=2284787&CFTOKEN=88391418
The Information Technology Assn. of America estimates U.S. firms needed more than 900,000 additional tech workers this year--and were able to hire only 475,000.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
To me it suggests that many underqualified people entered the field and are inflating the unemployment rate. I suspect the shakeout will continue to turn these people back to their original fields...
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Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Well Mark, you are employed MIT grad with contacts. With all due respect, there is a good book "The Bell Curve" by Herrnstein and Murray which explains in detail about how your opinion is relevant to 98% of the people on this board. Nothing personal, my IQ is in 99th persentile too, but I am unemployed.
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
1. I've worked for 2 consulting firms which in last half a year went almost to non-existence, and they hired only experienced pros and had a solid business plan. I also happen to know another 3-4 consulting firms (that have been there for years) which fired a bunch and are on the verge of bankruptcy. The work stream's dried out. I can give you company names if you wish.
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Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
You don't honestly believe that a community college grad can be as successfull as the person from top tier school?
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Yes, there are people out there who succeed on enterpreneurial arena without a good degree, but business is a different animal from IT. Frankly I doublt we can find more than a hand full of people who were programmers and then became successful in business.
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Well, what do you call this situation. You make TVs that get sold like pancakes. One day, when your factories work 24/7 and you crank thousands of TVs a day you get a report that they no longer sell. You start asking questions,
doing research, maybe engineers are at fault, maybe competition is making better models? No, everything seems to be in order. Next report comes, and you haven't sold a single set. You stop production, lock the office and go home bankrupt. Which one of these 3 you gave would apply to it, bad business plan, bad execution, bad experts? Now, replace TV with intellectual capital, and you get the idea what happend to a bunch of IT consulting firms. Companies just weren't buying any services anymore.
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Good luck with your book, Mark![]()
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Sorry, I got so angry about this thread that I haven't been following it.Originally posted by Charlie Sturman:
Your last statement is a bomb shell.Would you please expand on it.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
www.websiteandsound.com
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Consider Bill Gates, he doesn't even have a degree...
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
The better companies had better predictive models, or paid more attention and planned ahead.
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RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
How about some examples of people who looked for work recently and easily found a job?
Originally posted by Marilyn deQueiroz, in reply to Mark Herschberg:
I'm simply arguing that the current ratio is "normal" and previous ratio were "high" (as opposed to most people lately who seemed to take the last few years as "normal" or "good" and today as "bad").:
Market correction theory. Probably valid. Job markets fluctuate in all fields.
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
How dare you insult our president with that rude comment. Everyone knows that Dubya went to Yale!Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Obviously it is a person which makes a degree, consider our Harvard grad George W.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
How dare you insult our president with that rude comment. Everyone knows that Dubya went to Yale!
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Originally posted by John Fontana:
The statistics to prove it are right in the database at JavaRanch for this BB. These aren't people who used Dreamweaver and called themselves programmers...most of these people, including myself, taught themselves Java, have degrees, and earned SCJP's... Never mind statistics...what could be better than tons of first-hand accounts of the situation?
Let's turn the table around: We MENSA-members know it's theoretically impossible to prove a negative, so prove a positive: How about some examples of people who looked for work recently and easily found a job?
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
< Some bio on Bill Gates >
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
Obviously it is a person which makes a degree, consider our Harvard grad George W. <http://www.javaranch.com>
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
But in IT you are right there. In US and all over the world top colleges recruit top talent into science and engineering programs. These grads then become IT core.
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
I've also worked with tons of people who could code well in VB or create reports or query a database, but we would have to agree on what you mean by "success" and "successfull people" before we can go on about whether they made it or not.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
You missed the best one, that his mother was on the board of directors and heavily influenced the decision which gave him the IBM contract!
Again, you make my point. His college had nothing to do with it! He was going to succeed because of his family. It is personal intelligence, charisma, skills, family, friends, upbrining, value, etc which make you succeed. One college over another makes little difference.
Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
I've also worked with tons of people who could code well in VB or create reports or query a database, but we would have to agree on what you mean by "success" and "successfull people" before we can go on about whether they made it or not.
Originally posted by Roseanne Zhang:
What's wrong with VB programmers?...
Even I like Java/C++ far more than VB, but I'll never say VB programmers are inferior than us.
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
JavaBeginnersFaq
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Originally posted by Simon Lee:
Mark, can you tell us what your book is about or is it a secret? ;)
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
More bad news...
the economy is in great shape!
http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/26/news/economy/economy/index.htm
"GDP grows 5.8% in 1Q"
And speaking of data...
Check out
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/sumnip-d.html
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn1.htm
It has yet information on why this recession isn't as bad as the one in the early 90's.
--Mark
Matthew Phillips
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
the economy is in great shape!
JavaBeginnersFaq
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Any posted remarks that may or may not seem offensive, intrusive or politically incorrect are not truly so.
RusUSA.com - Russian America today - Guide To Russia
Shura Balaganov writes:
GDP and this other economics data is probably as reliable as Enron's balance sheet. It is very statistics-based, and can be manipulated by government and such.