Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
Hi,
If I may, my rather ill informed 2 cents on the matter![]()
I think the outsourcing of skilled labour from richer countries such as the US to poorer countries such as India (sorry no offence meant to our Indian friends) is a natural progression of a maturing industry. If the same task can be carried out for far cheaper than native labour, without a noticable change in quality, then it will happen. And I think this has already been happening for a while.
The question I feel has to be asked is "How much of company X's IT can be outsourced?" Its clear that the answer is not "Everything!". Go to Wipro's site and check out their presentation on Outsourcing.
I feel that there is a definite benefit to outsourcing ie lower costs, but this is offset by risk. Not everything is suited to outsourcing, as is clear in Wipro's presentation.
I fear that in the current economic climate, with CEO's and CTO's doing everything they can to reduce costs in the short-term, they may be outsourcing too much, and this will come back and bite them at a later date.
With regards to the US's current IT Job market woes, its clear that there is definitely the case where the supply of skilled labour at the right price, outweighs the demand for said labour. In this case, I would propose the following:
1) That the US government severly curtails or eliminates completely the ability for companies and to apply for IT workers under the H1-B program. I know Im going to get crucified for this and some may brand me a racist, but again I point you to the simple economic fact that there is currently an oversupply of IT labour. Otherwise why would places like Silicon Valley suddenly have high unemployment?
Cheers, and hey Im donning that asbestos suit right now so flame on!
Mark
MobileBytes blog - Sharing Technology - My Programming Knols
Originally posted by Fred Grott:
what we forget is we live in a world economy..those skills that can be comodized wil be imported overseas those kislls that are still unique in nature due to complexitiy and etc will stay in the US..
not any easy answers here and the water is still clear as mud..
Andrew Fischer
SCJP
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
Hi,
1) That the US government severly curtails or eliminates completely the ability for companies and to apply for IT workers under the H1-B program. I know Im going to get crucified for this and some may brand me a racist, but again I point you to the simple economic fact that there is currently an oversupply of IT labour. Otherwise why would places like Silicon Valley suddenly have high unemployment?
Mark
Yeshwantpur
Originally posted by rahul rege:
Economic downturn has already taken care of this....Assuming starting salary of H1B is $60K/year,you can hire 10 equivalent people easily here.
Andrew Fischer
SCJP
Originally posted by Andrew Fischer:
I'm asking because we are in a global economy. At some point unemployed US citizens may start looking to India for work!
Originally posted by Andrew Fischer:
What is the standard of living for a Software Engineer in India? Sure you are only making US$10,000 a year, but some things cost less in India. I just checked, $1US = 48 Rupee.
[ flickr ]
"A scientist is not person who gives right answers but a person who asks right questions"
Originally posted by Ashok Krishnan:
Well, I know you were being sarcastic, but I was trying to give you an idea of how things fit in for mid career programmer in India.
Average salary for an experienced programmer in major firms like Wipro, Infosys etc is around 500,000 Rupees (5 lacs) per annum, which works out close to $10000. After tax average take-home per month would be something like $750 to $1000 per month.
Andrew Fischer
SCJP
Originally posted by Ashok Krishnan:
[qb]Can a mid carreer programmer afford a house? Yes. Rent for a nice 3 bedroom house would be $100 to $150 per month. (Varies from cities to cities widely)
hmm, Ashok which cities are u talking about? I dont think so the above holds true for Mumbai and Bangalore.
Air Conditioning?
Not quite. But then, you don't really need it.
I would like to disagree on that too, we do need it now.
TV/DVD/Nintendo.
Yes.
This possible
A good school for your children?
Sure will have a difficult time choosing between so many good schools ? especially in cities!!
True about that somewhat.
Meals out at a nice restaraunt?
7 nights a week if you wish. A good meal in a very good (not a 5* ) restaurant will cost you 3 to 5 USD per head.
Very true.
Good clothes?
Western brands (like Levis for example) or designer cloths will cost you exactly the same in US or in India. But excellent quality casual/formal local brand would cost a tenth of brands like Levis.
Very true
A servant?
Yes. Definitely part-time if not full time maid. Their service should cost you between $50-100 per month. (Depends on the city again).
Very true
Two cars?
One may be. Cars are expensive in India. So is petrol. About $0.80 per litre!!
Yeah it is expensive
Well, I know you were being sarcastic, but I was trying to give you an idea of how things fit in for mid career programmer in India.
Average salary for an experienced programmer in major firms like Wipro, Infosys etc is around 500,000 Rupees (5 lacs) per annum, which works out close to $10000. After tax average take-home per month would be something like $750 to $1000 per month.[/QB]
"A scientist is not person who gives right answers but a person who asks right questions"
Originally posted by Andrew Fischer:
....but I really wanted to know what kind of life a professional engineer has in India. I'm glad to hear that wages provide for a comfortable middle class life in many ways comprable to one in the US.
Yeshwantpur
[ flickr ]
Harpreet Singh<p>SCJP2/SCWCD/IBM Certified Specialist-DB2 7.1/IBM Certified Application Developer-DB2 8.1
Originally posted by Amitabh Sharma:
Recession in the IT industry is global and not just in US and IMHO this is not due to outsourcing. 2 days back I visited recruiters in Delhi in India. I am exploring job opportunities in Delhi so that I can move back to India for personal reasons. I have 6 years of experience in the IT industry in Canada and graduated from an A grade engineering college in India. However the recruiters showed no interest in my resume. I was bluntly told that IT job market is down. May be my salary expectations of Rs. 30000 per month put them off, although I do have friends employed whose salaries are in that range. Indian students are not taking Computer Science branch anymore and there is a clearly a preference for more traditional professions such as government jobs, teaching, lawyers, MBA and even sales and so on. It is funny that IT professionals in North India are very much devalued in the Arranged Marriage arena as well. The layoffs in US of the IT people have been highly publicized in India just like their dollar power was once revered in the good old days. The party is over and the hangover is bad.
MobileBytes blog - Sharing Technology - My Programming Knols
Aruna A. Raghavan<br />SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD
Bound for SCJP, so help me GOD. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Yeshwantpur
Originally posted by Thomas Paul :
I would not recommend this field to anyone.
Originally posted by George Steiner :
I have a young son and I worry about my future and whether I will be able to provide for him in the future if I stay in this field.
Originally posted by Barry Gaunt :
I've got one of my sons at school doing a commerce and informatics combination.
Originally posted by Thomas Paul :
As the number of IT programming jobs contract, the current field of programmers will be fighting over the few jobs left that Mark described.
Originally posted by Michael Bronshteyn::
If the pool of programmers is going to shrink, and new students will pick other fields other than programming, why do you think being a programming language instructor is a safe job.
Originally posted by Mark Fletcher:
Hi,
1) ... there is currently an oversupply of IT labour. Otherwise why would places like Silicon Valley suddenly have high unemployment?
Mark
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by G Vanin:
[quote ] Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
G usually just makes stuff up. The two countries have almost identical per capita GDP's but Portugal has an unemployment rate of 4% while Spain has an unemployment rate of 14%. I doubt that may Portuguese are running to Spain to get on the unemployment lines.
[/quote ]
GDPs per capita differ 2 times. I am not sure about GDP per capita. But I am sure that productivity in Spain is bigger 2 times and average salary is bigger by 80%.
Economic growth has been above the EU average for much of the past decade, but GDP per capita stands at just 75% of that of the leading EU economies.
Spain's mixed capitalist economy supports a GDP that on a per capita basis is 80% that of the four leading West European economies... Unemployment has been steadily falling under the AZNAR administration but remains the highest in the EU at 13%.
Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/
Originally posted by yidanneuG ninaV:
Mark,
I based my arguments on the average salary levels.
...
I do not have so much time as you for searching digits.
Originally posted by raul enrique:
I'm pretty fed up with his posts. (Oh and by the way, I am European and live in Europe)
How about no one ever replying to any post he makes ever again and hopefully he will go away?
And even if he creates a new id, it shouldn't be difficult to tell from his distinctive attitude and grammatical 'style'.
Raul
It doesn't matter how many times you read what you write, it still doesn't make it true.Originally posted by G:
I am pretty sure about what I have wrote since I have read it thousands times!
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
It doesn't matter how many times you read what you write, it still doesn't make it true.
:roll:
Originally posted by Paul Bull:
Question...,
How many of you in this forum voted for George W. Bush?
Originally posted by Sheeraz Khan:
1- Big dollars stay in USA with US CURRUPT CEO
2- The programmer in other countries suffer as
well becasue they companies in USA are
absuing them.
Originally posted by Sheeraz Khan:
There should be a tap on the CEO who make the choices to move the development offices abroad.
not the out sourcing companies?? The are just trying to survive...like you and me
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