There will be no jobs in america for another 2 Years

[Thomas Paul]

You do need to register to see NY Times articles but they don't verify anything including the email address you use. Try this email address [e-mail]
The articles are copyrighted so posting them here is violation of the NY Times copyright.

[John Lee]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
The articles are copyrighted so posting them here is violation of the NY Times copyright.

oh my god, i hope yahoo, AP, or reuter does not have such strict copyright rule.

[Praveen Pranum]

L-1 Strutiny:-->
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=47903695

[Matt Cao]

Hi,
I think the two newspapers that don't require you to register to read their articles are Contra Costa Times of San Francisco and Mercury News of San Jose.
But the rest of the newspapers like your resumes but don't like you to read news as a guest. :roll:
Cheers,
MCao

[Praveen Pranum]

Mr.Inslee Favouring outsourcing.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/5959814.htm

[Praveen Pranum]

India singled out in Germany as well.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=477976409

[Praveen Pranum]

The economic times, india interviews Mr.Inslee
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=47935226
There is a chance that Mr.Inslee could buy into indian outsourcing policy as he has vested interest in trade with india.
Its good for both the countries, but on a 2 year term perspective it is going to hurt american job market. Thats just my opinion.

[Jane Somerfield]

Originally posted by Praveen Prav:
http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/pj_edt_columnists/article/0,1651,TCP_1127_1985593,00.html

A section from above article:
...
One correspondent is about to lose his third job, and the coda of his employment this time is the same as the previous two: Train your Indian replacement, or else.
...

It has been done with so called "pair programming"
of XP in many places.

[Praveen Pranum]

L-1 Related
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=477832160

[Paul McKenna]

Let the following also be known:
1. Praveen himself was a H1B who has now become a green card holder
2. His intelligence level can be noted from the following discussion:
Effect of Globalization

[Praveen Pranum]

Mr.Sriraj Rajaram
You like showing your finger at me haa???
Ofcourse I was an H-1 B. Recently there have been a lot of changes to the H-1 B law in the last 3 years. I evolved from being a F-1 went to school in america to get my higher studies. I was an H-1 B when the H-1 B visa was not abused. Recently H-1 B law has been drastically abused. I loyally served to a single employer for 5 years as an H-1 B after being on F-1 for 2 years before I got my permanent residence afte ra total of 7 years(thats how much time it used to take those days).
Now Sriraj, its kind of unfortunate that you are still in a pool of so many other H-1 Bs stuck in a H-1 B limbo.
I blame the H-1 B because I know the intricacies that go with it.
To tell the truth I came to america to live in america. Not to go back. I want to be an american. Do you have a problem with that. Are you jealous ??? I dont brag about being an indian like you have been doing in your posts.
I am just a normal indian who likes to be an
american.
I think indians, chinese and any other people from other countries are equal. And they evolve through different stages to become an american citizen. Now if you dont value an american and just need the money that you want to convert into indian rupees that your perogative.
I love india as it is a country of my birth. If I had soo much love for india I could have gone in Indian military. Obviously I did'nt get the oportunities I was looking for in India, thats why I came to america.
I post my opinions here, If you have a problem with me being an indian its your problem.
If you like india soo much why not pack your bags and leave for your $100000 rupees pay you were bragging about that you can get, atleast an american will be happy that he gets his job because you are gone.
Thanks
[ May 30, 2003: Message edited by: Praveen Prav ]

[Paul McKenna]

Well I got news for you..
I have been with the same employer since I began my career. So there goes your argument.
You blame the H1 cos you no longer are a part of it but now percieve a threat from the very system that let you in. In other words you are selfish, absolutely nothing wrong in that.. but what is wrong is that you have not called a spade a spade.
What intricacies of the H-1 do you criticize Praveen? Please bring out that argument first. Let see how many of those *intricacies* were exploited by you.
Damn! I'm enjoying this now

To tell the truth I came to america to live in america. Not to go back.

There goes the first *intricacy*
The H1-B is a non-immigrant visa. That means you were displaying immigrant intent right from the start. Which means you lied to the visa officer about your intents in the first place. Which means that you have been dishonest all along. Well.. well.. well... what do you have to say about that Mr. Praveen.
What gave you the idea that I brag about being an Indian? What I might be accused of is discrediting hypocrites like yourself and defending India and Indians in the face of blatant lies. I love America just as much as you do and just as much as anyone else. OK! Lets get to the facts.. what have you done for Americans since you love America so much (besides posting articles that discredit India)
Have you done any of the following:
1. Find jobs for Americans out of work
2. Donate over 50% of atleast one of your paychecks to a needy American
3. Volunteer to teach English at the local literacy center
If you havent done any of the above you have no right to claim more fondness of this country than me.
P.S - I dont want to sound like a braggart (which I guess I do now.. ) but it was necessary to make a point.b
[ May 30, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

[Matt Cao]

Hello You Two,
Please behave. Think what have you too accomplished by pointing finger at one anothers. You two only show to the world exactly what the world see in Indian. You two only confirm to the world opion about Indian. Did you two understood the reason why the world single out Indian as ... not because Indian are superfluous in English as India Times claimed.
Peace,
MCao

[Paul McKenna]

Originally posted by Matt Cao:
Hello You Two,
Please behave. Think what have you too accomplished by pointing finger at one anothers. You two only show to the world exactly what the world see in Indian. You two only confirm to the world opion about Indian. Did you two understood the reason why the world single out Indian as ... not because Indian are superfluous in English as India Times claimed.
Peace,
MCao

While your post is taken in the right spirit Matt, it is necessary to take the hypocrite by the collar and give him a thorough shake down at some point of time. I think Indians have been more injustice by playing deaf and dumb in the face of such immense criticism. I can understand if Thomas Paul, JY, Granpa Michael or any person of more than 2 generations of American blood critcizes us. But a first generation immigrant who criticizes others for trying just as hard as him needs a slap in the cheek from time to time

[Praveen Pranum]

SriRaj,
Whether I am first generation or second generation. If you feel like slapping my face just because I am an indian who want to be an american. Do that in that real world.
See what the consequences be.. try it its worth a try for a psycho like you.
No matter how many posts you post sit your *ss for the rest of your life as a pro H-1 B. I will always say that there should be a limit to it.
[ May 30, 2003: Message edited by: Praveen Pranum ]

[Matt Cao]

Hi,
Anyone ever claims Indian are deaf or dumb, is never have opportunity to work with or hang out with Indian people or even dating.
Regards,
MCao

[Praveen Pranum]

Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:

Have you done any of the following:
1. Find jobs for Americans out of work
2. Donate over 50% of atleast one of your paychecks to a needy American
3. Volunteer to teach English at the local literacy center
[ May 30, 2003: Message edited by: Sriraj Rajaram ]

Although I have not done any of these I delivered meals to really old and disabled americans for 1 year through the "meals on wheels" program at my previously employment as part of companies volantary program.
I dont brag about it. I really enjoyed doing it. Until then I didn't know what kind of problems american get into when they become really old.

[Menaka gangamavari]

More outsourcing:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/030502/137/23ywr.html

[Nicholas Turner]

Originally posted by Sriraj Rajaram:
Carlisia,
I've long been advising several of my American colleagues to consider getting their bachelors education in India as an international student.

I guess, like thier getting better jobs from us. I've worked on projects based out of india. Thier skills are half of what the average fellow programmer is and we have to create utilities and support for them constantly.
They don't have the need for such a high skill level as an american consultant. I haven't seen any shift in highly skilled consultants, just jr. level work.
And really anything under 40/hr, who cares its like illegal aliens taking contruction work in texas. I won't work for that little amount of money anyhow

[Nicholas Turner]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:

I think a sufficient number of people would do this. Engineers and maintenance technicians working on military equipment have flocked to Saudi Arabia for years now because of the lucrative work, so I don't see where it would be any different with India.

yeah but your taking the fact that the engineers and offshore workers make 3 times the amount overseas whereas the opposite for us.
Unless you have less than 2 years I dont know anyone foolish enough to work for 30k, a teacher even a cop makes more oney

[Nicholas Turner]

Really though this whole topic in my opinion is ridiculous.
What affect does outsourced jobs have on the market maybe 3% at the most. How many companies that are mid-sized or larger bring in foreign workers because there cheaper. ALL OF THEM for the last 2 decades. The fact is it happens one way or the other.
If the company wants less experienced programmers who of course work for less let them go for it. But when the real work has to be done they will want who? The cutting edge consultants who can get the job done on time and better.
I mean really its just another way to weed out the real programmers from the ones who occupy space. With the loss of a little jobs the market becomes fiercer and as we speak the market is slowly improving and the salaries will go back up but the mediocre programmers will have to improve themselves because now we have to show a reason for them to pay 65+ an hour
So what has changed really. The same thing happened to engineering 5 years ago, and its a more demanding market. The same thing for IT will happen soon, it just means more competition and when the market is good more competition means better pay for the best. Its all just a game.
Everyone is feeding into this like 9/11 was the beginning of the end.
Now is the time to study, improve, work, and be the best. I dont work for less than 40/hour and neither should anyone else who is dedicated to being a guru in my opinion.
All statements are my mere rambling on and do not in any way have anything to do with anything really. Especially a bunch of hick java programmers that play for cows.
eek...dont hit add reply they might not answer your ?'s anymore
thanks
nick

[Nicholas Turner]

In my post I am not calling Indians dumb, I am merely saying the skills are not as high as americans. This directly reflects the pay. Because no one with high skills would take less than 40 an hour.

[Praveen Pranum]

You cannot generalize like that. There are lots of indians who are kick butt compared to americans. They provide same quality of service. Work harder. There are lot more indians than there are americans in Technology Jobs in america. What does that signify. It signifies that indians are highly competitive, cutting edge, smarter and hardworking.
There are a few americans who are good at technology compared to indians.
I am an indian and I am kick butt and earned consistently 45$/hour in the down economy for the last one year. So please do not generalize like that.

[Praveen Pranum]

There are lot more white americans than normal H-1 B indians in management. That I agree. But there are lot more H-1 B indians than there are americans in information technology.
I came to this conclusion after working for 5 fortune 200 companies in 4 different states in the last 7 years. Was employed all the time except now. As I got laid off because our project went offshore to india.
[ June 01, 2003: Message edited by: Praveen Pranum ]

[San Su]

Originally posted by Praveen Pranum:
You cannot generalize like that.

Did you get hurt Praveen??? choow chooww.. :roll: Aren't you doing the same thing??

[San Su]

Originally posted by Praveen Pranum:
There are lot more indians than there are americans in Technology Jobs in america. What does that signify. It signifies that indians are highly competitive, cutting edge, smarter and hardworking.

Nahh.. They are all H1B's with vested interest in their jobs (and cheap). So they hire only other H1-B's and Indians. That is why Indians are everywhere. Well.. that is not my words.. Remember??? What goes comes around..

[Manav Mitra]

Originally posted by Nicholas Turner:
In my post I am not calling Indians dumb, I am merely saying the skills are not as high as americans. This directly reflects the pay. Because no one with high skills would take less than 40 an hour.

They might!!! If you consider that gets converted to another currency like INR. AND 1$ = 48 Rs approx.

[John Lee]

In my post I am not calling Indians dumb, I am merely saying the skills are not as high as americans. This directly reflects the pay. Because no one with high skills would take less than 40 an hour.

i am not sure the exact dollar amount, but i am sure some highly skilled indian will try to get a job in the US first.

[Ashok Malhothra]

Praveen,
see this article
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?msid=5114

[Ashok Malhothra]

See How India is dealing with the Visa issue
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?msid=8185

[Nicholas Turner]

funny thing,i've had 4 interviews in the last 3 days

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Nicholas Turner:
funny thing,i've had 4 interviews in the last 3 days

Good for you. I was able to get 4 interviews in the last 12 months.