I can live without software but I must have clothes. I would not like to run around naked.
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Please help me find a job in America. I require only 4 hours sleep daily and I'll stay in a shoe box under the desk. You can pay me in peanuts and computer games. If you scratch me behind the ears I purr, and I hibernate during recessions.
Thanks
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
And how do you compete with someone willing to accept a standard of living one fourth of yours? Do you just tell your wife to forget about the house, and tell your kids that college is out of the question? Do you tell them that the American Dream is dead because corporations want to replace Dad with cheap labor from a developing country?
How do you compete with that? Be willing to work for $15/hour? Or exit the IT field completely and look for something that can actually pay the mortgage?
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And how do you compete with someone willing to accept a standard of living one fourth of yours? Do you just tell your wife to forget about the house, and tell your kids that college is out of the question? Do you tell them that the American Dream is dead because corporations want to replace Dad with cheap labor from a developing country?
How do you compete with that? Be willing to work for $15/hour? Or exit the IT field completely and look for something that can actually pay the mortgage?
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by R K Singh:
A decade ago there was a similar debate. A company I worked at brought in an Indian sys admin team at less than half the cost as their existing team. I'm afraid my perception was that the Indians were also less than half as competent. Senior SE's (like myself) were obliged to solve problems which the previous SA team had handled before, with resulting impact to development schedules. Heavy impact.
I beg to differ, I think, it was the problem of that company's "Human Resource Recruiting" department which could not recruit the correct person. [The SA, you are talking about could have been a US citizen also and could have given shocks too.]
Originally posted by R K Singh:
With the massive recent expansion of the major Indian outsourcing companies, I expect many less qualified staff have been hired recently. This is going to have a negative impact on the quality of their product.
I think recruiting process is tough enough here to get the best of all applications.
And if you read the whole blog and the links given there. I think, that left Sue and the people who agree with her speechless.
Why only blame to outsourcing ?? Outsorcing is like, you are in open market and you are looking for best value for your money. Anyone who will provide best value for your money, you will buy that product only.
Can we blame outsourcing for unemployement in manufacturing units also ??
In my simple thought, outsourcing is nothing but a getting best at cheapest cost.
And now there is competetion also very high with entry of Russia, China and other south asian countries too.
The job done in US @ $4000/-
same job in India is $700/-
and in China it is $500/-
And regarding quality of work, in this competetive age, no company will repeat order/project if the end product lacks quality.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by Tintin Herge:
Well, I have seen many Americans and Britsh people who are half as competent than me and maybe double my price. I dont see what your point is ? There are competent and non-competent people all around. If the companies who hire them , dont take a thorough interview before taking them in, they deserve what they get. I have seen both instances in my previous projects. I have worked for a Bank which had a very tough Interview process and all the people working in the project (including a few Indians on a work permit ) were VERY GOOD and everyone knew what they were doing. On the other hand, I have worked in a Telco which took an interview from contractors as just a formality and they trusted the Suppliers totally who screwed them by sending people who sometimes had no clue abt the software in question.
Point is , If you have seen a few H1Bs who were not very competent , I have seen many locals who are the same. You cant blame them or the H1 process. The blame has to lie with the companies who recruit them without making sure that they fit the role.
My 2 Pence.
This is a pretty touchy topic and I am sure this has been discussed on this board sometime ago.
Tintin
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:
Tata supplied inexperienced people, I think....
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by R K Singh:
The job done in US @ $4000/-
same job in India is $700/-
and in China it is $500/-
Originally posted by R K Singh:
Then one must "demand" that everyone should be paid equal amount. Then we will above nationality and in true sense global. Then an local will never think that he is being replaced by someone cheaper.
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
That is what the law says but that isn't what is happening. H1-B's are supposed to be paid the "prevailing" rate but they aren't. They are paid what they will take which is a lot less than the prevailing rate.
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by <chinese programmer>:
Can I ask where do you get this information?
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by R K Singh:
I dont remember exactly, I think it must be one of these sources Times of India/Finance Time/Deccan Herald OR on net.
But I read it very recently, I mean with in last 2-3 weeks.
it is hard for me to believe this data is unbiased.
but if you read it within last 2~3 weeks, then i am sure you can still find it now.
Originally posted by R K Singh:
Dont you think, your company, where you were and I was not, should have taken interview before choosing SA from XYZ company.
I have clearly said that "it was the problem of that company's "Human Resource Recruiting" department which could not recruit the correct person. "
Another point I'm making is that the Indian labor market is not an inexhaustable pool of Java talent,
Very true. Talent is independent of anything.
and that the Indian outsourcing companies are reputed to be expanding their staff very quickly.
Sorry, I beg to differ, recruitment atleast now a big process of clearing written to test to atleast 3-4 rounds of interview.
Yes, 3 yrs back I can agree, any Tom, Dick or harry will do some computer course and would start dreaming of good job.
But now, even in my home 2 friends are job-less from last 1 and half year[they were working and now their company is either closed or on cost cutting] and I know they are good enough to get a job but when you have a label of 'laid-off', its difficult, atleast in India.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Off shoring is just as inevitable, so it makes more sense to work with what is coming than to shake your fist at the tidal wave.
You can all piss and moan about "your" jobs being taken from you, or you can figure out how to compete. Simple as that.
Originally posted by Simon Lee:
google : $4000 india china job $500 : im feeling lucky
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_31/b3844132_mz033.htm
BearingPoint pays $500 a month for engineers in Shanghai. In India, he says, the pay would be $700, and $4,000 in the U.S.
Originally posted by Simon Lee:
It is what it has found to be the 'market rate'.
Originally posted by Simon Lee:
it's not BearingPoint (aka KPMG) 'policy'. It is what it has found to be the 'market rate'.
The relationship between a developer salary in KPMG office london to <name of company here>will be highly correlated to the developer salary in KPMG shanghai and <name of company here>>
KPMG developer salary would be ~35K UKP in london I would imagine ($50k)
SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Originally posted by <chinese programmer>:
it is hard for me to believe this data is unbiased.
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by R K Singh:
Do your home-work yourself and say thanks to Lee and Kepler.
AW thanks Lee and Kepler
Above that, Simon. I worked for them in London until last year. Their range was between �45K and �70K. Before they dumped most of their development staff, that was.
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:
But I doubt HR (or anyone else) interviewed the Tata SA's....
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by <chinese programmer>:
homework on what subject? rumor?
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by R K Singh:
Then, whose fault is this.
SCJP1.4, SCWCD