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So go learn PHP and join the rank of unemployed high school drop outs showing off their PHP skills on their mom's refrigerator.
No more rhymes! I mean it!<br /> <br />Does anybody want a peanut?
Originally posted by William Duncan:
Can someone tell me if PHP can access objects remotely? Can PHP code reside and run on one server and access and use objects located on another? What are it's messageing capablities? Can I write a batch application or a FAT app with PHP? What type of XML support does PHP have? Can I create a web service with PHP that is portable and interoperable, secure, supports open standards (XML, SOAP, WSDL), and supports the SOAP message processing model and extensions?
I ask these questions only because I don't know anything about PHP but have found EJB's extremely beneficial at every place I have been because they can be accessed remotely and therefore maintained in one spot. Also, they represent a clean separation of reusable business logic which is generally code that is already written and therefore, I do not have to.
JMS has also been extremely useful. We have vendors that request information from our database. With JMS we can supply them with the data they need without giving them access to our mainframe. They can request this information without ever knowing what tables they need to hit or even if they are getting data from a legacy system. And message delivery is guaranteed even if the server goes down and messages are not duplicated. We can encrypt this message in order to secure highly sensitive data as well.
Our apps rely on a set of xml configuration files so that when certain aspects of the application change, such as the name or location of a pdf report or a database lookup name, all we have to do is change a config file without ever touching the code running on the server. We have a highly dynamic environment. Our apps change on an almost daily basis according to user needs. The ability to do this is invaluable.
And, as mentioned already several times, security is a sticking point for IT managers and is one reason they shy away from .NET and MicroSoft.
We can do all this without spending big $$$ to cross-train everyone in multiple languages and without worrying what platform our applications will be running on 2 years from now or even longer.
Can PHP do all of that?
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Poor herb. You are so lost. Yahoo does not use PHP. They use PHP for some trivial internal work that they used to use some specialized scripting. They do not use it for their search pages. PHP sucks. I have used it. It has no transactional support. No asynchronous messaging capability. No built-in security features. It is pathetic for mission critical applications. Trying to split php into a Model 2, MVC architecture is an excercise in futility.
As far as the list of companies that use it, that is irrelevant. My company, for example, used it for a quick and dirty throw-away web site that we put up to support 2 customers while we developed the real distributed application to support all of our customers. So I assume that you would consider us one of the big wins for PHP. Big Whoop!
But the real proof is the job search. Go to any site and do a search for Java vs. PHP. I just did a search on hotjobs for my area. 6 PHP (one job was actually for a Java programmer to replace their php app). 206 Java jobs.
So go learn PHP and join the rank of unemployed high school drop outs showing off their PHP skills on their mom's refrigerator.
And Herb, no one is impressed when you quote figures like "runs four times faaster" from a site that sells PHP products. And I thought after the blond joke fiasco that you were leaving the ranch? "My work here is done,and like the ancient apostles, I shake the sand from my sandals and leave this city."
[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
[ July 30, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
...most web sites are not Enterprise apps and will never will be.
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
We can spend all day saying that JSP has this feature, and PHP has that feature that JSP does not.
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
but name one feature that PHP has that Java does not have.
Originally posted by William Duncan:
Can I write a batch application or a FAT app with PHP? .
We can do all this without spending big $$$ to cross-train everyone in multiple languages and without worrying what platform our applications will be running on 2 years from now or even longer.
....
....
Can PHP do all of that?
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
This is a JAVA site. If you hate JAVA so much, why are you still hanging around?
[ July 29, 2003: Message edited by: Gregg Bolinger ]
My main problem with both of Cold Fusion and PHP was their short comings in developing large applicationa and then a year and a half ago I started to develop a quoting engine for cars in PHP and soon decided to switch to JSP / Servlets and believe it was the best thing I did. We now use a Model 2 MVC for our webapp and the maintenance is very easy.
Originally posted by William Duncan:
Can someone tell me if PHP can access objects remotely? Can PHP code reside and run on one server and access and use objects located on another? What are it's messageing capablities? Can I write a batch application or a FAT app with PHP? What type of XML support does PHP have? Can I create a web service with PHP that is portable and interoperable, secure, supports open standards (XML, SOAP, WSDL), and supports the SOAP message processing model and extensions?
>>>>
YES! YES! Can use JMS or write your own. YES! Most XML, supports open standards. It is easier to use a java object in PHP than in JSP.
I ask these questions only because I don't know anything about PHP but have found EJB's extremely beneficial at every place I have been because they can be accessed remotely and therefore maintained in one spot. Also, they represent a clean separation of reusable business logic which is generally code that is already written and therefore, I do not have to.
>>>
Separation of business logic is a big 'buzzword'. Any programmer worth his salt will do this on his own - when necessary. I don't agree this is an important part. EJB's are useful, especially in transaction processing. The tradeoff is resource usage and speed. They are slow and use precious memory.
JMS has also been extremely useful. We have vendors that request information from our database. With JMS we can supply them with the data they need without giving them access to our mainframe. They can request this information without ever knowing what tables they need to hit or even if they are getting data from a legacy system. And message delivery is guaranteed even if the server goes down and messages are not duplicated. We can encrypt this message in order to secure highly sensitive data as well.
>>>
I am not familiar with messaging. Sorry, I should look this up.
Our apps rely on a set of xml configuration files so that when certain aspects of the application change, such as the name or location of a pdf report or a database lookup name, all we have to do is change a config file without ever touching the code running on the server. We have a highly dynamic environment. Our apps change on an almost daily basis according to user needs. The ability to do this is invaluable.
And, as mentioned already several times, security is a sticking point for IT managers and is one reason they shy away from .NET and MicroSoft.
We can do all this without spending big $$$ to cross-train everyone in multiple languages and without worrying what platform our applications will be running on 2 years from now or even longer.
Can PHP do all of that?
Originally posted by ah hofelt:
Yes. In fact Java is now embracing the PHP community by writing a standard interface. Check out http://zend.com for more info. The standard will be in place by next year, JSP's will be gone in 5 years - and no one will miss them!
Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
No more rhymes! I mean it!<br /> <br />Does anybody want a peanut?
Originally posted by Ron Newman:
Can't you use web.xml to do the same thing for JSPs ?
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Check out http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223 to shee what ah is talking about. All that has happened is that Zend has been added as one of the companies participating in a process to allow scripting languages a more reliable interface into Java. This is by no means a process to replace JSPs. Even ASP will be involved in the process. Does anyone think that JSPs will be replaced by ASP? I wonder if it is now the way of the PHP community to take a page from Microsoft's book and start spreading FUD.
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Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
Perl, The Write-Only Language.
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[ July 12, 2003: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
PHP runs on more platforms than Java
SCJP<br />SCWCD <br />ICSD(286)<br />MCP 70-216
Originally posted by Paul Sturrock:
One of the reasons I steer clear of PHP for commerical apps is its "support" for Unicode. Kinda makes creating a truly internationalizable site with PHP an impossiblility.
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