Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
I am aware that reverse discrimination exists. Remember, I worked for FedEx, during school. In the month that I was hired, FedEx hired me, and about 99 African Americans. I am not lying. My friend who was White was turned away because he was told that he was too overqualified. Yet they hired people, well I won�t even dwell. Even I who worked at FedEx, had a hard time, getting hired. However, a friend of mine, pulled some strings to get me hired. He actually had to jump several obstacles just to get me an interview. Yet they were hiring complete strangers, just because the hiring staff was African-Americans and the applicants were also the same race. It�s as if FedEx was on a rampage to hire as many African-Americans as possible.
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
This is the same thing that happens to my friends who have applied for temp work as admnistrative assistants. Two that come to mind have Bachelors degrees from Stanford and Purdue. The problem is that when they put all of this stuff in their resume, it is like saying to the employeer "This work is actually beneath me, but I will do it because I need the money. However, as soon as I find something better, I'm gone.". They couldn't figure out why they weren't getting calls back until I brought it up with them and suggested that they change their resume.
Jon
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Hello Jon McDonald,
What should I do, what am I doing wrong? I know that it is a tough job market, but what am I missing?
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Don Stadler:
My experience is that black guys and Hispanic guys are as rare as hen's teeth in IT.
The proportion of caucasians seems heavily skewed toward males in the geek jobs.
The problem is that the sort of geek communities which develop at universities tend to be asian, caucasian, and male. So that is where the developers tend come from. But it may also lead to the kind of stereotype which may have hirt Mr. Torres here. He doesn't fit the stereotype. In bad times that can be very bad.
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
The IT department, that I used to work for, was predominantly White, Asian, and Indian. As a result, my co-workers gave me a hard time. They thrived on exposing my inexperience with the material, even though I was in a college-recruit program that lasted 6 months. On the other hand, they were very accommodating with the other college-recruits.
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
I know there is discrimination out there, and I don't deny it's a problem when you're hit by it.
What I DO say is that discrimination works both ways, yet it's only considered a problem when minorities (who in some places are no longer that except in name) suffer from it.
When caucasian people reject Asians or blacks they're persecuted as racist, yet when a black or Asian person rejects a caucasian person because of the colour of his skin or his accent noone thinks twice about it.
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
-- <br />4 8 15 16 23 42
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
Jesse,
Keep in mind that Jeroen is talking about his country, the Netherlands, not the United States.
Jon
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Even though my family�s roots started in the U.S during the late 1890s, I am still viewed as an outsider because I am non-White. Yet, if a European White were to arrive today to the U.S, he/she would be more accepted than me, even though I, my parents, and grandparents were all born in the U.S.
[ April 27, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Tony : I am a South Floridian by adoption and with respect to:
"Many positions here in South Florida have been openly advertised indicating that you will not even be considered unless you are very fluently bi-lingual.."
Tony :
...discrimination is the last of the motives. Business necessity is the prime one.
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Racism is a very complex issue that often is swept under the rug. In Chicago, racism is evident in the segregated neighborhoods.
Studies have consistently proved that Whites, when compared with Blacks, always receive more job offers.
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Originally posted by Jon McDonald:
As far as hiring Hispanics in Chicago, I have seen two sides to this. On one hand, at my previous employer, there seemed to be a big push for hiring Hispanics, so much so that if a non managerial, white collar job opened up, there would be a good chance that the person to fill it would be Hispanic. Some of the old timers there said that they were just the new "flavor of the mont". On the other hand, I have seen VERY few Hispanics in any area of IT short of basic PC repair.
Jon
Originally posted by herb slocomb:Yes, a complex issue because not all of the segregation can be attributed to the actions of whites. Often people simply like to associate more with those of the same culture, so segregation results from the actions of the minorities. This is especuially the case of more recent immigrants who lack english language skills, although it can and does occur with any group with shared customs and traditions. For example, in South Florida there is a very large Jewish retirement community. The Jewish retirees are not randomly and evenly dispered throughout the US or even in Florida or even in South Florida. They are simply a minority group that has made choices of association.
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
America�s attempt to hire minorities for government work is still far less than American private corporations� discriminatory practices.
Read this thread carefully for my proof. I have applied for the same positions as my friends have. On one hand, I never received a call, not one. On the other hand, my White and Asian friends received at the minimum a phone interview, and most actually received offers.
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
[qb]
Jewish people are technically White. Their desire to remain in close proximity to their peers is no different than White Irish Americans to remain in close proximity to one another.
[ April 27, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
[ April 27, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Your comment over immigrants choosing to segregate themselves is baseless. Let�s put things into perspective. The times that I have walked into fancy restaurants, I never have received the same service as Whites. The waiter is not too often friendly, courteous, or accommodating as with White customers. It�s not only at restaurants that Whites receive better treatment. For that reason, many minorities tend to remain in neighborhoods with their peers.
Originally posted by Sadanand Murthy:
Not to hijack this thread, but just as a tangent:
When the topic of immigrants comes up in US (this is my personal experience) many, if not most, white people in US (perhaps even blacks) think only of Asians (including those from the Indian sub-continent), Mexicans, Arabs, etc. They never equate immigrants with Europeans. When, during such a conversation I mentioned that Germans, Italians, Brits can also be immigrants, there was a slightly delayed & puzzled "oh yeah, that's right".
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Originally posted by herb slocomb:
But the number of legal and illegal Hispanics alone completely and totally dwarfs the number of European immigrants. Perhaps also Indians (including temp workers, H1-B, etc). So perhaps it is not totally unexapected.
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Once thing is obviously clear here herb, your ardent antagonism towards Hispanics. Your posts clearly state this with your chronic posts over how Hispanics are better treated.
Additionally, what the hell do Illegal immigrants have to do with anything. I think that it is uneducated for someone to bring Illegal immigrants into a job discussion. You see it is that close minded discrimination that is the problem, be it from Whites or not. Even though my roots are deeply embedded in the US for more than one hundred years, I am not considered and / or treated as an American. Furthermore, it is a cheap shot.
Again I say, read my messages carefully before you make unwarranted comments. I never said that only Irish Americans and Jewish people live in same neighborhoods. I was just making a point to your comment, in which you said that Jewish people are a minority. I merely rebuffed your comment by saying that presently, Jews are considered White. Also, if a neighborhood is 90 � 95 % White, why don�t you argue that White people choose to remain separated from minorities..
Finally, if you have problems with Hispanics, deal with them directly.
Maybe in your Florida are Hispanics better treated, but wake up and realize that Hispanics only account for 13 percent of the population; thus, most of America is White.
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
You are geting touchy on this issue so this will be my last post to avoid further offense to you. Although you titled this post "Discrimination or overreaction ?" it is clear you do not want any evidence that would tend to lessen your viewpoint of discrimination.
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Oops, I had no idea that Jeroen is in the Netherlands. Sorry Jeroen, I thought that you were in the States.
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Your comment over immigrants choosing to segregate themselves is baseless. Let�s put things into perspective. The times that I have walked into fancy restaurants, I never have received the same service as Whites. The waiter is not too often friendly, courteous, or accommodating as with White customers.
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
White Europeans were viewed as immigrants at the turn of the last century. Today they aren�t because they are immediately accepted into mainstream America unlike Blacks and Hispanics.
Once in Brussels we (speaking Dutch) were completely ignored by waiters in several restaurants (Brussels is in the French part of Belgium, segregation there is worse than what you have ever seen in the US except on language).
When as an experiment we went into another restaurant speaking English we got prompt and friendly service UNTIL we started speaking Dutch...
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Discrimination in the workplace is a very sensitive subject. It is the same, regardless if it takes place against minorities or against Whites. I have witnessed discrimination of all sorts against Whites and minorities.
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Noone forces Chinese to go live in Chinatown.
Noone forces blacks into black neighbourhoods.
Maybe they like it better there?
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
There was a famous study last year reported in all the major news media that "proved" that applicants with "black" names got less interviews than those with "white" names. Somewhere on this site there was a thread devoted to it. Being curious, I checked out the details of the actual study. What I found was that the most "black" name actually got more interviews than the average "white" name. Weird how the same data can mean 2 completely opposite things to different people... Anyhow, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all the studies are wrong, its just that there is a seed of suspecion in me that the problem may not be as large as is claimed. Maybe the problem is simply that I don't associate with bigoted people perhaps...
SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Originally posted by Don Stadler:
If you have room to improve in this sphere consider the possibility that the problem may be in that area rather than discrimination. At least in many cases it may well be true.
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