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Article - "Offshoring: Good for Business, Bad for America"

 
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AMERICA DISCOVERS. THE WORLD DELIVERS.
Never mind that quite a lot of the innovation has actually come from Europe
Linux - Linus Torvalds
NetBeans
JBoss
open source project leads eg Apache
They probably reside in the US now.
 
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Alan Turing was British.
Majority of OpenSource programmers I see are from Europe.Open any Linux rpm source code and see the people.Any specific reason why open source programmers are mainly from Europe?To my knowledge Opensource movement started in late 70s with GNU founded by Richard Stallman in 83/84 in USA.How come that movement was spread in Europe so rapidly?Was it bcos of jobs,or just interest or anything else?
[ May 05, 2004: Message edited by: Ram Abdullah D'Souza ]
 
HS Thomas
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Probably up to the challenge. And a deep rooted fear of monopolies.
There are actually no Brits on the Open source front AFA I can tell.
Innovation has come through University Research departments -
my fav is SearchSpace from University College London which has been adopted by many banks in the US and Europe, Hong Kong, Australia..
Project managers here don't use Open source directly.
[ May 05, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
HS Thomas
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In my opinion, the most interesting question raised by this report is how the Japanese manage to get a defect rate of only 1/6 that of anyone else, while maintaining the highest productivity rate (469 lines per programmer month, more than twice India's 209). I'd like to know what processes the Japanese are using!
They have had QUALITY driven into them since the IInd World War. They probably invented the original Quality Process for mass production.
Note there is a difference in quality between a Ford and a Rolls Royce.
[ May 05, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
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A large percentage (22%) of projects from Japan (in the sample) are Mainframe projects, which is 3 to 4 times more than the percentage of mainframe projects in the sample projects considered from other countries. As we all know, mainframes are a time-tested technology, and of course modules with thousands of lines of code is only normal � I wonder if this has affected the rating/comparison.
 
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code generators creating a thousand lines of virtually error-free code on the click of a button, then intersperse those with a few lines of handwritten code?
 
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
Probably up to the challenge. And a deep rooted fear of monopolies.
There are actually no Brits on the Open source front AFA I can tell.
Innovation has come through University Research departments -
my fav is SearchSpace from University College London which has been adopted by many banks in the US and Europe, Hong Kong, Australia..
Project managers here don't use Open source directly.


Mine does. Lets see. Apache Struts, Cruise Control, Maven, JBoss, Xdoclet, Ibatis DAO for starters.
 
Don Stadler
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It looks like the U.S. and India specialize in opposite approaches to software development - waterfall for India, agile for the U.S. - for example, with India using detailed designs more than three times as often as the U.S., but using daily builds less than half as much.


India has a relative advantage in waterfall because they need that level of detail to be able to work effectively on projects where the requirements and design authority reside halfway across the world and are customers at an arms length. Agile emphasizes the relative strengths of the US/Western countries, being very difficult to do when you're not in close proximity to the customer.
Please note that I'm not saying that Indians can't or don't use Agile, only that waterfall has made more sense for them up to now.
 
Don Stadler
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Originally posted by HS Thomas:
They have had QUALITY driven into them since the IInd World War. They probably invented the original Quality Process for mass production.
Note there is a difference in quality between a Ford and a Rolls Royce.


Actually not, HS. An american named Deming is the primary proponent of the most influential Quality process, although the processes themselves originated in Western Electric (AT&T) during WWII. With many other fathers I'm sure.
A lot of the management thought behind the quality revolution was done by a man named Peter Drucker, an Austrian who emigrated to the US just prior to WWII and who has done his more influential work in the US.
Both men were influential and honored in Japan. Japan caught onto Deming long before the US did, in particular. Drucker was extremely influential in the US but that part of his work was neglected....
 
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Originally posted by Don Stadler:

India has a relative advantage in waterfall because they need that level of detail to be able to work effectively on projects where the requirements and design authority reside halfway across the world and are customers at an arms length. Agile emphasizes the relative strengths of the US/Western countries, being very difficult to do when you're not in close proximity to the customer.
Please note that I'm not saying that Indians can't or don't use Agile, only that waterfall has made more sense for them up to now.


Actually many projects approach it this way.
Guys from the US design using UML etc in their working hours and guys from India do the coding in their daytime. When the US guys comeback to work next day, they do teleconference to express their questions, answer questions, communicate a lot on the development philosophy etc.
I would consider that as more close to Agile than waterfall approach.
 
HS Thomas
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Originally posted by Don Stadler:

Mine does. Lets see. Apache Struts, Cruise Control, Maven, JBoss, Xdoclet, Ibatis DAO for starters.


Consultancies do take up open source in a big way. Europe beckons.
Financial houses seem to be taking their time. The latter seem to be spending time by getting bigger first buying smaller companies. Royal Bank of Scotland is now 7th largest on the US list of banks (having acquired 2 US banks)and taken over Nat West. There's lots of process integration work there. RBS is one company that said they wouldn't offshore.
I had heard about Deming and promptly forgot. The Japanese obviously learnt well.
[ May 05, 2004: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
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Guys from the US design using UML etc in their working hours and guys from India do the coding in their daytime. When the US guys comeback to work next day, they do teleconference to express their questions, answer questions, communicate a lot on the development philosophy etc.
I would consider that as more close to Agile than waterfall approach.


I would agree that a process in which the programmers are not greatly responsible for architecture/design does not a waterfall make.
In fact, I can't even imagine how much of a failure you'd have by outsourcing via pure waterfall.
 
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Originally posted by Don Stadler:

projects where the requirements and design authority reside halfway across the world and are customers at an arms length.


Requirements yes, it always comes from the customer whether its at arms length or other side of the world.
But why design? I have never worked on a project in my IT career where the design came from some other place. So please dont make generalizations on Indian IT.
 
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