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2.6 GPA, state school, he makes more money than I make

 
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Hi Ravindra,

Do you mean to say that the "not so intelligent" ones seem to go ahead just because they don't expect too much of themselves? I didn't quite get your point...but I agree with you (from experience) that the better ones get frustrated easily when they don't get immediate returns...but then what is the solution to this? Infinite patience?


Regards,
Tejas
 
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Hi Tejas

Do you mean to say that the "not so intelligent" ones seem to go ahead just because they don't expect too much of themselves?



I have seen over the years of my experience in the industry (IT) that it is the so called "not so intelligent" people who do well in the industry since they are not carrying any additional baggage like GPA, graduation from best school etc. These people don't have high expectations. The intelligent people are the one who are always used to working hard and want to see instant results in terms of recognition and advancement but yet some times the results are not as per their expectations so they easily get frustrated and started comparing themselves with the lesser intelligent people who seem to be prospering in the industry in spite of not working hard in life or not having enough intelligence. It is all matter of having high expectations of onself and the non-fulfillment of it that leads the intelligent person into deep frustration.

However I just want to caution that the above remarks can't be generalized to all the industries. There are fields like engineering and medicine where one need to have good academics and that automatically means intelligence to succeed on job. I have myself graduated from a very good school and I have seen that the top 25% in my class have all done extremely well. They are paid better than the rest and I have lot of respect for these intelligent breed of people.

Thanks
Ravi

PS: I ended up wrongly editing my previous reply.
[ June 25, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
 
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The question is NOT how smart you are, but how you are smart!

 
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Here is an interesting article by Arindam Chaudhuri -
http://www.thesundayindian.com/10062007/editorial.asp?pageno=1

All I can assure you is that I wish there were a correlation between getting 90% in school boards and having a better life at 40. Unfortunately, there isn�t! Of course, there is a relation between being uneducated and not doing great. And similar is the relation between being educated and doing well. But education is not about getting 90%. It�s about being a great son, daughter, wife, husband, mother or father� It�s about reading books and becoming more cultured. It�s about being a positive influence in the society. It�s about being constructively employed and creatively spending your energies. It�s about the will to achieve and succeed. And all this can be achieved equally well by any average student as by a 90 percenter.



- Manish
[ July 05, 2007: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]
 
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In my opinion,salary is not the only standard to measure success.
The salary of different profession is also different
Do you like,and you will get succes.
 
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I think you'd be a lot happier if you knew what you wanted and worked towards it. Its not a big deal comparing yourself with others and trying to do things that everybody does. What matters is what goals you set for yourself and how you go about achieving them. Trust me- its a lot more satisfying achieving your own goals than beating someone else!
 
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Originally posted by Neha Gap:
Trust me- its a lot more satisfying achieving your own goals than beating someone else!



Very true, This is what i do
 
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Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
No, they're 100% truthful, but you've effectively said, "I want to do math, I worked hard at learning to farm, why won't they let me do math now?" That an extreme example, and a somewhat fictitious one. A better one might be, "I got a 4.0 in physics, why can't I get my big break as an actor." You have simply defined "good job" to be one which requires skills you have selected to ignore.

Let me ask you this, what did you hope to get by posting this thread? Advice on how to change? A fairy godmother who will wave a wand and give you a job for which you admit you lack the skills to get? Company that misery so enjoys? Or something else all together?

....

Exactly, and the point you're missing is that in many companies writing Java code is not a solo activity, but one which requires teamwork, communication skills, etc.

If you want a job which doesn't emphasize these skills, find a company where you are one of a handful of programmers in a support role on some non-critical project. You'll get little recognition and little opportunity for advancement, but you'll also get fewer people who will want/need to spend time with you.

Let me reiterate: 98% of the time software development is a team oriented activity (when done right).



Mark, it's been almost 2 weeks since the last time you replied to my messages and your words are still haunting me. One thing that I want to repeat and emphasize is that I don't have a problem with teamwork. I have a problem with public speaking and socializing. It's not that, as you suggested, I am "afraid" of public speaking. The problem is that I am inarticulate in speech. I also have very underdeveloped social skills to the point that I have a hard time networking and performing basic human activities such as making friends. Those are deficits that can be improved upon with hard work, but my dislike for such activities is such that it's been suggested by at least one mental health professional (who also happens to be a friend of mine) that the foundations for my behavior could be psychological. I don't believe a lot in all this psychobabble, so it might as well be that I am unintelligent, and that the only reason I did reasonably well in school is because the educational system has been dumbed down so much in recent years. I don't know how academics at your alma matter compare to those at the school I went to, but my college coursework, with the exception of that from graduate level courses, always felt like an extension of the coursework I did in high school, with a few classes actually being easier than some of the classes I took in high school.

Mark, if I don't have what it takes to be a real world programmer, that's fine. If I wanted to program that bad, I could always do it in my spare time for my own pleasure or at the very least try to do what it takes to make myself competitive for a real world programming job. What I want you to tell me is, what type of "technical jobs" you think would be a good fit for me. And I am not talking about the low level support roles jobs you mentioned. I am talking about technical jobs where college-level hard skills are rewarded and soft skills are merely a plus.

What happened to the computer science geeks we all came to love? What happened to the grouchy hacker? Are they unemployed, or did they become suave and couth?
 
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What happened to the computer science geeks we all came to love? What happened to the grouchy hacker? Are they unemployed, or did they become suave and couth?



Two points... First, how many "vi", "tetris", "breakout", programs are left to do? Programs these days are not the 1000 line programs, written in assembly that can done by a single person, in a garage -- most of those have already been done.

Second, as you may have noticed, there are a lot more computer science professionals today than in the past. One of the reasons you can be a "grouchy hacker" is because you were hard to replace -- I doubt that you can do that today.


One extra point... most of the hacking that I (and most of my friends) did in the late 70's and early 80's were for fun. IOW, we were not employed to do hacking. Most of us grew up and got jobs. Some of us went through the dot-com era, struck it rich (not me... ), retired, and went back to doing it for fun.

Henry
 
ravi janap
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I have found something interesting to talk about and that is "Self Esteem" and it has relevance to the topic under discussion

Self-esteem is essential to our ability to function in a healthy way. Without the foundation of a solid sense of self-worth, we are unable to take the risks and make the decisions necessary to lead a fulfilling, productive life. A low self-esteem corrodes our love lives, careers, family bonds, and, most importantly, our internal sense of well-being. A high self-esteem, on the other hand, brings the high level of confidence, problem-solving abilities, and assertiveness needed to achieve what Maslow called "self-actualization"- a continuous desire to fulfill potentials, to be all that you can be. People who have positive self-esteem have healthier, stronger relationships with others. A strong sense of self-worth actually creates a type of self-fulfilling prophecy: the more you like yourself, the more you begin to act in likable ways; the more you believe you are able to achieve something, the more likely it is that you will. And the good news is that we can all take steps to improve our self-esteem. After all, there's nothing more important than the relationship you have with yourself!

http://www.utexas.edu/student/cmhc/booklets/selfesteem/selfest.html

Thanks

-- Ravi
[ July 05, 2007: Message edited by: ravindra janapreddy ]
 
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The essence of software development is capture the domain information and translate it to a computer for execution. Most of the time, you don't know all the domain information and the translation process is too complex to be performed by only one person, communication skills are VERY important in software development (read Frederick Brooks's essay "No silver bullet", always highly recommended). In the excellent "Peopleware", Tom de Marco states: "The major problems of our work are not so much technological as sociological in nature".
Bottom line: in the same way you improve your coding skills, you should work in your social skills, is not that hard once you get started.
 
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